Physical aspect of cultivation

[Lever]

As a former professional athlete and believer in the beneficial effects of physical exercise, I´m wondering what you guys think about the role of it in terms of cultivation!

 

In my opinion Spiritual, intellectual and physical cultivation are needed in order to reach maximum human potential. I see the body as a vessel and the stronger the more energy it´s able to withstand or should I say contain? Sometimes I´m a bit confuse when certain masters complain about a nagging health issue or look really tired or wrecked!

 

So, what do you think?

 

All the best, Lever

Edited October 28, 2016 by Lever

[joeblast]

Contain isnt really productive verbiage.  Think of it in terms of flux.  You've doubtless received the benefits of metabolic boosts from physical exercise - you can also make that happen in a "spark of yang arising from the depths of yin" sort of way with longevity breathing.  Upgrade flux=upgrade bandwidth capability.

 

Since you've done all kinds of physical work, you should dig on my approach to breathwork and how it relates to neurology and how to attain a maximally calm and efficient state with minimal consumption - built as a habit every day, is the foundation for gung.

 

There's a balance of external and internal cultivation that will achieve the best results for one's desired direction - if  one needs the super high functioning metabolism of a professional athlete, a superlative meditation regimen can actually help lessen the amount of physical training required, by making the training more efficient.  Think of a day's workout et al like plunging a sponge into a bucket - without good sleep its like immediately pulling the sponge back without even relaxing the hand.  Get good sleep, its like waiting for the sponge to fill but still not relaxing the hand.  +Good meditative regimen, its like relaxing the hand and waiting for it to absorb the water before pulling it out of the bucket, even growing the sponge with time.

 

 This is something I'm starting to teach my rabid hockey player nephew, to use the depths of meditation to more thoroughly absorb the physical potentials cultivated.   I should think the idea of having more methods to have a full gas tank late in the third period are desirable

Edited October 28, 2016 by joeblast

[Gerard]

Low to mid-level you need to work through mind blockages [conditioned mind (society), karma and emotions...but ultimately is all karmic related] via the body.

 

High-level, there is no body anymore since the body has been fully mastered (opened) and viewed as a slowly rotting corpse, which is the truth anyway (impermanence slowly consumes it until only dust is left, and eventually dust will also vanish into thin air). Pure awareness and spirit, like The Buddha. You can't reach this level without successfully opening the previous gates. Decades of hard work, dedication and passion. Heaps of discipline and sacrifice.

 

My advice: find a good teacher and a method that suits you best. You'll also need a lot of good luck here. Same as above, it all depends on your karma.

 

Good luck!

Edited October 28, 2016 by Gerard

[Lever]

@joeblast

 

I agree that it´s of utter importance to practice meditation or similar practices in order to make the most out of any exercise regimen!

 

@Gerard

 

Thanks for ur answer! Any methods u can recommend?

 

General I´m really interested if someone has gained something on their spiritual path through certain physical exercises?

 

 

Cheers

[Jetsun]

Its an interesting question how physical conditioning relates to cultivation. Certainly I think one could be obese and out of shape and be far more spiritually realised than a profession athlete, in many traditional Buddhist three year retreats you get very little exercise if any at all in some cases. 

 

Yet if the body is strong and healthy it is far easier to calm the mind and be comfortable in yourself, exercise helps the body release a lot of toxins and release dense stagnation and remaining healthy, so exercise is an important part of living well and skillfully and treating yourself with compassion in my opinion, so at a certain point it is difficult the separate out daily living from cultivation. 

[Aetherous]

In a certain sense, the physical is our foundation, whereas the spiritual is the capstone. Ideally, we want a healthy strong pyramid. Cultivating only one aspect of ourselves weakens us...what is an amazing capstone without a nice tall base? Not as impressive and easily damaged.

Physical exercise is only one aspect of physical health. It's not a panacea, curing every health problem. If done to excess, it causes health problems. Sleep is another consideration for health. Quality relationships, another. Etc.

A legitimate spiritual path will teach you to exercise and lead a healthy lifestyle in addition to its practices.

[gendao]

As a former professional athlete and believer in the beneficial effects of physical exercise, I´m wondering what you guys think about the role of it in terms of cultivation!

 

In my opinion Spiritual, intellectual and physical cultivation are needed in order to reach maximum human potential. I see the body as a vessel and the stronger the more energy it´s able to withstand or should I say contain? Sometimes I´m a bit confuse when certain masters complain about a nagging health issue or look really tired or wrecked!

Absolutely.  Although, the foundational physical training has more to do with increasing flexibility than muscular strength.  Natural athletic ability is a good sign that you are likely at least using your body properly (i.e. naturally) though, which will certainly help with Daoist spiritual cultivation.

Edited October 30, 2016 by gendao

[Jetsun]

I think there are different ways of looking at physical cultivation. For example I know a long distance fell runner who pushes his limits of endurance to the absolute limit and the way he talks about the states he gets into running he could be talking about spiritual experiences. For some people you could say that their dharma for this life is to explore and go beyond the physical boundaries as a human.

 

For others the main purpose of physical cultivation is to make the body a better vessel for energy, for example in Yogic paths physical exercises are more used to open up the energy channels and make it a strong vessel not so much to store energy but to become an open empty vessel for the divine to come in.

[Gerard]

 

Thanks for ur answer! Any methods u can recommend?

 

General I´m really interested if someone has gained something on their spiritual path through certain physical exercises?

 

 

Not a problem at all. Happy to help. Yes there are two methods: one direct, aggressive (more Yang), the other slower, more Yin. The former works very well if you live in society. The second method more recommended for a retreat or for practitioners no longer working (or monastics and the like).

 

1. Baguazhang (first method)

2. Buddhist Vipassana (2nd method)

 

Finding a teacher will be the first big hurdle you'll encounter. Make sure they are legitimate and are people driven to help others not to promote themselves or an organisation.

 

Here's a guide to Vipassana retreats in Asia. Better teachers than in the West, for obvious reasons.

 

Finding a good Bagua teacher is even more difficult. Also this is a less popular art than other Internal systems like Tai Chi or Xingyi. You can ask for futher info about teachers here.

 

I have experience with both and learnt the systems with real life teachers.

 

I wish you the very best of luck.

 

Edited October 30, 2016 by Gerard

[Lever]

Somehow I have the feeling that the physical body is the gate to healing blockages no matter if emotional, physical or spiritual! 

Eventually we feel all this stuff in our body? Even spiritual problems which run in a family usually manifest itself as physical problem. This could be health or even wealth related! Maybe I´m just at low point in my spiritual progression and therefor overestimate all things physical. On the other hand physical health and vitality are part of spirituality as well, right? I mean being vital and full of energy is necessary to do good things in this world we are right now and so I think it´s a necessary thing to have if one wants to create a positive impact!!!

 

Cheers

[gendao]

Somehow I have the feeling that the physical body is the gate to healing blockages no matter if emotional, physical or spiritual! 

Eventually we feel all this stuff in our body? Even spiritual problems which run in a family usually manifest itself as physical problem. This could be health or even wealth related! Maybe I´m just at low point in my spiritual progression and therefor overestimate all things physical. On the other hand physical health and vitality are part of spirituality as well, right? I mean being vital and full of energy is necessary to do good things in this world we are right now and so I think it´s a necessary thing to have if one wants to create a positive impact!!!

 

Cheers

Well that's it, you nailed it!  Build the pyramid from the base up, not top-down.  Congrats on getting off on the right foot here...that will put you many steps ahead of most in this game!

[ChiForce]

Is more like karma cleansing.  BTW, I was a bike racer for 4 years.  I mean, I used to train about 12 hours per week and doing these long ass 6 hours bike ride per week too and following a training plan designed to allow me to compete locally.  Too bad, my natural VO2Max is low and never really did well in the races.  Sucked even more on longer races with major climbing.  Back then, I was trying to workout my life issues and bike racing and training allow me to have a cleaner body from the perspective of karma.  I spent a lot of  money on training gadgets and nutritional diets to improve my fitness.  A way to sublimate my negative emotions.  The downside is that my life was very simple back then.  You go to work..sometimes I even bike to work as parts of my training.  You go home, eat and sleep.  And you train and ride during the weekends.  That's about it.   

 

At some points, I did not feel like living this life anymore....maybe I didn't feel the need to work out my negative emotions because they don't affect me as much anymore.  BTW, trying to be good at endurance sports can be very, very exhausting and tiring for the body.  You can over do it.  And your mind becomes underdeveloped because you don't have the energy to workout the spiritual and mental aspects of your cultivation.

Edited October 30, 2016 by ChiForce

[Vajra Fist]

There's an excellent book you might like called 'In the Zone: Transcendent experiences in sports'. It's all about how professional athletes attain non-dual states at high levels of their game.

[Lever]

@gendao

 

Thanks. It´s the result of years of trial and error

 

@chiforce

 

I´ve experienced it firsthand. Just living for the watts/kg is like living in self-made cave, which transcends every second of your life. Unfortunately my BODY made me realize that I was off track!

 

@Vajra Fit

 

Thanks. I will look into it

[Gerard]

Somehow I have the feeling that the physical body is the gate to healing blockages no matter if emotional, physical or spiritual! 

 

 

It is. But you need to really find out through correct and determined practice. It won't happen immediately.

 

The Body is a projection of the *Mind. This whole physical reality is a projection of your own Mind.

 

Also find this out through correct practice and determined discipline. Morality is a key aspect of the whole process. Wisdom too. In fact, wisdom is the trigger factor..

 

Regards.

 

 

*It is not the thinking process as we know it. This is only the superficial component, a result of society's conditioning. Also called the conditioned mind. It is the first aspect a correct method will tackle. For example in the Vipassana tradition:

 

Buddho

 

The practice itself (northern Thai forest tradition) the meditation practice is broken down into three different parts:

 

1. Prostration

2. Walking

3. Seated

 

You'll end up walking over 8 hours a day if you attend a 3+ week retreat. That's a lot of physical activity, trust me! The seating becomes a relief, you'll be begging for it!

 

 

In Bagua practice, the constant circle walking holding one of the Eight Mother Palms creates a huge vortex effect that releases all the conditioned junk you have been carrying for countless lifetimes. Small spirals of energy go deep in your entire system, and all you have to do is just watch how your consciouness changes slowly over time. You become a new human being.

 

This will be your main goal:

 

Four stages of enlightenment

 

A Vipassana retreat is constructed so practitioners are nurtured and directed towards the attainment of stream entry. Not as easy as it seems. Lots and lots of hard work and determination. You'll be assisted by a competent and compassionate teacher.

 

Edited October 31, 2016 by Gerard

[Lever]

 

 

In Bagua practice, the constant circle walking holding one of the Eight Mother Palms creates a huge vortex effect that releases all the conditioned junk you have been carrying for countless lifetimes. Small spirals of energy go deep in your entire system, and all you have to do is just watch how your consciouness changes slowly over time. You become a new human being.

That sounds great! Although I`m pretty sure Clyman´s stuff is doing that to me too right now, as the more I practice the more stuff comes up!!! 

 

Vipassana is something I have always wanted to do but I will wait till I have time to do a whole retreat!!

 

Cheers

[silent thunder]

Scholar/Poet.   Warrior.   Monk/Artist.

 

Mind.      Body.       Spirit.

 

Balance in all things.

[Kubba]

As a former professional athlete and believer in the beneficial effects of physical exercise, I´m wondering what you guys think about the role of it in terms of cultivation!

 

In my opinion Spiritual, intellectual and physical cultivation are needed in order to reach maximum human potential. I see the body as a vessel and the stronger the more energy it´s able to withstand or should I say contain? Sometimes I´m a bit confuse when certain masters complain about a nagging health issue or look really tired or wrecked!

 

So, what do you think?

 

All the best, Lever

Which masters do you reffer to?