Karl Posted November 7, 2016 Karl, take a look at your above opening statement. You are basically saying that you are not reading the words with an open mind, but in particular you are reading them with a built in prejudice of what you think they say based on your belief system around stoic philosophy. Please just read the book and what it says, not what some book reviewer said it says. Your analogy is exactly the problem. You are mixing food and wine, and then trying to say what you like after it is already digested. When you go for a wine tasting, you clean your palate. You have some water or maybe a piece of white bread to clear your mouth of other distractions. Then the wine (or words) can be tested on its own for smell and taste. It is simple, just taste the wine... Don't get caught up in the preconceptions of a what goes with some full meal... Got a PDF ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff Posted November 7, 2016 (edited) Got a PDF ? Sorry, don't have a PDF for it. Only an old small book that a friend gave me. But, if you google the tittle I am sure you can find something. Or, maybe some other member knows where it can be found as a PDF. Edited November 7, 2016 by Jeff Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
roger Posted November 8, 2016 Karl, There's the absolute and the relative. In the absolute sense, everything is God's will, and is perfect and best. In the relative, there's such a thing as imperfection and "bad". You could liken it to a movie. Suppose a bad guy kills a good guy in a movie. The analogy is that in the absolute sense, it was a perfect part of the movie; but in the relative, in the movie, it was imperfect and bad. What I believe is that everyone shares God's will, and always does that will BECAUSE it's their own will. A quote from A Course In Miracles is, "The function of the Teacher of God is to see no will as separate from his own, nor his as separate from God's," and, "There is no will but God's. I cannot be in conflict." Where does this leave free-will? You see, we have free-will, but NOT choice. Everyone is always CHOICELESSLY doing the will of God, because it's their own will. In other words, one MUST do THEIR OWN will. This doesn't imply that we should be apathetic or passively accepting of "bad" things, because there's the relative. Another thing is that, even though everything that happens is everyone's will, things are NOT always one's CONSCIOUS WISH, and shouldn't be. Emmanuel (a non-physical, channeled entity) said that to say it's your conscious desire is "to make a cruel statement". But it's not cruel to say that all is as God, and everyone, wills it- it's love and joy! There was a man who lost his wife and children, and his friend told him, "God would never have wanted this," and the man replied, "DON'T take away from me the one thing I have!" In other words, it was his comfort that what happened WAS God's will, not that it WASN'T. It's more loving and compassionate to say that everything is happening as it should, according to a divine plan, than to say that it isn't. The divine plan is for All That Is to FULLY experience life, love, and truth, therefore all possibilities exist. The plan is for "all good things" to be, therefore every possibility has to happen somewhere. Just as without anger, forgiveness couldn't exist, and without sickness, there would be no such thing as healing, without ALL POSSIBILITIES, "all good things" couldn't happen. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Karl Posted November 8, 2016 That's only if you believe in God. I find it neither compassionate, nor loving, indeed absolutely the opposite. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thelerner Posted November 8, 2016 That's only if you believe in God. I find it neither compassionate, nor loving, indeed absolutely the opposite. May I recommend focusing on the spirit of motherhood then. The feelings and visuals of a mother holding, consoling and caring for her child. Look for it, remember it, hold the image dear in real life. That feeling/imagery/state is probably the closest sensation of being close to God. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Prasanna Posted November 9, 2016 Karl, There's the absolute and the relative. In the absolute sense, everything is God's will, and is perfect and best. In the relative, there's such a thing as imperfection and "bad". You could liken it to a movie. Suppose a bad guy kills a good guy in a movie. The analogy is that in the absolute sense, it was a perfect part of the movie; but in the relative, in the movie, it was imperfect and bad. What I believe is that everyone shares God's will, and always does that will BECAUSE it's their own will. A quote from A Course In Miracles is, "The function of the Teacher of God is to see no will as separate from his own, nor his as separate from God's," and, "There is no will but God's. I cannot be in conflict." Where does this leave free-will? You see, we have free-will, but NOT choice. Everyone is always CHOICELESSLY doing the will of God, because it's their own will. In other words, one MUST do THEIR OWN will. This doesn't imply that we should be apathetic or passively accepting of "bad" things, because there's the relative. Another thing is that, even though everything that happens is everyone's will, things are NOT always one's CONSCIOUS WISH, and shouldn't be. Emmanuel (a non-physical, channeled entity) said that to say it's your conscious desire is "to make a cruel statement". But it's not cruel to say that all is as God, and everyone, wills it- it's love and joy! There was a man who lost his wife and children, and his friend told him, "God would never have wanted this," and the man replied, "DON'T take away from me the one thing I have!" In other words, it was his comfort that what happened WAS God's will, not that it WASN'T. It's more loving and compassionate to say that everything is happening as it should, according to a divine plan, than to say that it isn't. The divine plan is for All That Is to FULLY experience life, love, and truth, therefore all possibilities exist. The plan is for "all good things" to be, therefore every possibility has to happen somewhere. Just as without anger, forgiveness couldn't exist, and without sickness, there would be no such thing as healing, without ALL POSSIBILITIES, "all good things" couldn't happen. Beautiful explanation. Thank you for making things simple and clear to everyone. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomBrad Posted November 11, 2016 The Stoics weren't the only school of thought in Roman times - the Epicureans were also important: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epicureanism Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Karl Posted November 11, 2016 The Stoics weren't the only school of thought in Roman times - the Epicureans were also important: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epicureanism They were a bit more fun. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
