Where does this quote from Lao-tzu come from?

[Oddball]

This quote from Lao-tzu appears on my box of green tea:

 

“Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage.” 

 

Anyone know where it comes from? I can't find a source for it.

[Stosh]

This quote from Lao-tzu appears on my box of green tea:

 

“Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage.” 

 

Anyone know where it comes from? I can't find a source for it.

From the people who make the tea I suppose

[Marblehead]

There's a good chance it is someone's translation of Chapter 67.

[dawei]

There's a good chance it is someone's translation of Chapter 67.

 

http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=2291

[Stosh]

Excerpt  From the comments...

"Confucius say [sic]: 'He who cooks carrots and peas in the same pot is unsanitary.'"

[dust]

It bugs me!

 

Just Google image "lao tzu quote" and most of the first few that pop up are fake.

 

"If you are depressed, you are living in the past...etc"

"Watch your thoughts, they become words; etc; watch your character, it becomes your destiny."

"If you do not change direction, you may end up where you are heading."

"A man with outward courage dares to die; a man with inward courage dares to live."

And the one from the OP.

 

Grr.

[Michael Sternbach]

Some such quotations may be from the Wen-tzu, most of whose contents are traditionally attributed to Lao-tzu, even though I find some of them at odds with the DDJ.

 

It was translated and published by Thomas Cleary as Further Teachings of Lao-Tzu: Understanding the Mysteries.

[dust]

Some such quotations may be from the Wen-tzu, most of whose contents are traditionally attributed to Lao-tzu, even though I find some of them at odds with the DDJ.

 

Some may be, though something like "If you do not change direction, you may end up where you are heading" seems to me to have a modern/American vibe to it. As does the OP -- maybe Taoist Texts could tell us but I don't know that Wenzi spoke of "loving deeply" either.

 

Interestingly this discussion has happened at least once in China, too, with someone asking about this very same quote:

 

https://zhidao.baidu.com/question/126592036.html

 

One of the replies says,

 

西方没几个人读懂老子的，一些文学家写几句话来展示他自己懂得东方哲学，仅此而已，没有深入了解他们写什么的必要。

 

"Few Westerners understand Laozi, a few writers write a bit about it to show they understand Eastern philosophy, but no more than that, they have no need to fully understand what they're writing about."

 

Edited November 9, 2016 by dust

[Wayfarer]

Few Chinese understand Laozi

[dust]

I know, just found it amusing. Most Bums are Westerners, I'm guessing, and many of us have more than a passing understanding of Laozi.

[Michael Sternbach]

Some may be, though something like "If you do not change direction, you may end up where you are heading" seems to me to have a modern/American vibe to it. As does the OP -- maybe Taoist Texts could tell us but I don't know that Wenzi spoke of "loving deeply" either.

 

Interestingly this discussion has happened at least once in China, too, with someone asking about this very same quote:

 

https://zhidao.baidu.com/question/126592036.html

 

One of the replies says,

 

西方没几个人读懂老子的，一些文学家写几句话来展示他自己懂得东方哲学，仅此而已，没有深入了解他们写什么的必要。

 

"Few Westerners understand Laozi, a few writers write a bit about it to show they understand Eastern philosophy, but no more than that, they have no need to fully understand what they're writing about."

 

 

There is a lot of debate about the proper understanding of Lao-Tzu even in China. And btw, only specialists are able to even read the DDJ in its original ancient Chinese - everybody else is relying on translations there too.

 

Bear in mind that the DDJ has several layers and is meant to evoke associations much like a work of poetry does (which it actually is). It is inevitable that people interprete such texts based on their own prerequisites and get out of it what makes sense to them. And that's quite alright.

 

Whenever somebody says that they have a full understanding the DDJ, and others don't, I think their understanding is actually quite limited, as Lao-Tzu himself warns in the first chapter that the Dao can't be fully grasped.

[dust]

  I know, see my post just above (I'm guessing I posted it while you were writing)

 

Just found it amusing that (1) the same discussion happens even in China (2) the reply I shared ignores that fact that the average Easterner understands Laozi about as much as the average Westerner (3) we actually have some very good discussions about Laozi on this site, which is nice

Edited November 9, 2016 by dust

[Rocky Lionmouth]

Some of the wuotes are quite nice, but if i saw the attributed to Lao Tzu i'd be inclined to dislike them just for that.

 

"Even a thousand mile journey begins with one step." showed up yearly in swedish pocket calendars as inspirational quotes on the week-spread, claimed to be either Lao Tzu (Chinese philosopher) or "Ancient asian proverb". Not anymore, someone (bless them Guan Gong for their determination and work) must have told them to lay off the romanticization and cuteification.

 

Sometimes i find comfort in reading the DDJ, other times i find comfort in thinking nobody really does understand

Edited November 10, 2016 by Rocky Lionmouth

[Walker]

And btw, only specialists are able to even read the DDJ in its original ancient Chinese - everybody else is relying on translations there too.

 

Sigggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhh, bulllllllllsssssshhhhhhhhiiiiiiiiittttttt. Man. Just cause pulling nonsense out of your ass can get you elected president doesn't mean it's ok, ok? Hot damn. I'm going to start billing people for medical expenses every time I have to get my forehead fused back together from yet another Dao Bums-induced face palm. 

 

Not only do millions of Chinese people read the Daodejing in classical Chinese (granted, there are different versions, thanks to the results archaeological excavations), but dozens of Daodejing quotes in their exact, original wording are a part of the daily lexicon of modern Chinese, including folks who didn't go to college and don't read a whole lot of books. 

 

As for the OP, I agree with whoever that there's a vague connection to Chapter 67. The second half of the sentence in the OP has echoes of "慈故能勇." If you plug the characters into a dictionary like CC-EDICT and see why. The rest of it seems embellished.

[Zhongyongdaoist]

Some of the wuotes are quite nice, but if i saw the attributed to Lao Tzu i'd be inclined to dislike them just for that.

 

"Even a thousand mile journey begins with one step." showed up yearly in swedish pocket calendars as inspirational quotes on the week-spread, claimed to be either Lao Tzu (Chinese philosopher) or "Ancient asian proverb". Not anymore, someone (bless them Guan Gong for their determination and work) must have told them to lay off the romanticization and cuteification.

 

Sometimes i find comfort in reading the DDJ, other times i find comfort in thinking nobody really does understand (Emphasis mine, ZYD)

 

 

  道德經: 其安易持，其未兆易謀。其脆易泮，其微易散。為之於未有，治之於未亂。合抱之木，生於毫末；九層之臺，起於累土；千里之行，始於足下。為者敗之，執者失之。是以聖人無為故無敗；無執故無失。民之從事，常於幾成而敗之。慎終如始，則無敗事，是以聖人欲不欲，不貴難得之貨；學不學，復衆人之所過，以輔萬物之自然，而不敢為。   Dao De Jing: (Guarding the minute)

That which is at rest is easily kept hold of; before a thing has given indications of its presence, it is easy to take measures against it; that which is brittle is easily broken; that which is very small is easily dispersed. Action should be taken before a thing has made its appearance; order should be secured before disorder has begun.

The tree which fills the arms grew from the tiniest sprout; the tower of nine storeys rose from a (small) heap of earth; the journey of a thousand li commenced with a single step.

He who acts (with an ulterior purpose) does harm; he who takes hold of a thing (in the same way) loses his hold. The sage does not act (so), and therefore does no harm; he does not lay hold (so), and therefore does not lose his bold. (But) people in their conduct of affairs are constantly ruining them when they are on the eve of success. If they were careful at the end, as (they should be) at the beginning, they would not so ruin them.

Therefore the sage desires what (other men) do not desire, and does not prize things difficult to get; he learns what (other men) do not learn, and turns back to what the multitude of men have passed by. Thus he helps the natural development of all things, and does not dare to act (with an ulterior purpose of his own).

 

 

(Chinese Text project, Dao De Jing, Chapter 64, Emphasis mine, ZYD)

[dust]

Sigggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhh, bulllllllllsssssshhhhhhhhiiiiiiiiittttttt. Man. Just cause pulling nonsense out of your ass can get you elected president doesn't mean it's ok, ok? Hot damn. I'm going to start billing people for medical expenses every time I have to get my forehead fused back together from yet another Dao Bums-induced face palm. 

 

Not only do millions of Chinese people read the Daodejing in classical Chinese (granted, there are different versions, thanks to the results archaeological excavations), but dozens of Daodejing quotes in their exact, original wording are a part of the daily lexicon of modern Chinese, including folks who didn't go to college and don't read a whole lot of books.

 

Chill...

 

The truth, I think, is somewhere in between what you and Michael have said.

 

Most Chinese reading the text front to back will not understand everything. Most cannot read any given chapter and understand fully without at least some time to study it, just like most English people will need some time to get to grips with Chaucer or Shakespeare in order to fully grasp the old language and wordplay etc.

 

Point being, most do not understand the DDJ on first read any better than a Westerner reading a decent translation of it, or Canterbury Tales in the original Middle English.

 

So yes, millions of Chinese surely read the DDJ, just like many English speakers read Shakespeare, but this isn't to say that they all have an easy time of it, or that anyone but those who study it in some depth (specialists) genuinely grasp all layers of meaning within it.

 

I put "理解道德经" into Google. Among the results descriptions:

 

"老子注释、老子研究和老子翻译，可谓汗牛充栋，但真正理解老子的学者，却少而又少"

 

"《道德经》言简意赅，难以理解"

 

"如果这个开宗明义的第一句话没有弄清楚，那么《道德经》的五千言都没有法子好好地读下去，更不要说如何去正确理解和实行了"

 

 

And just because someone knows a quote from a text does not mean that they have read or understood the whole text. Plenty of people can quote the Bible without the first flaming clue what most of it is about.

Edited November 10, 2016 by dust

[Stosh]

Confucius says... There are two possibilities,

1), that the master said only one thing,, and we can fight over it.

2) The master said many things ,one message for each of us. 

[Michael Sternbach]

Sigggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhh, bulllllllllsssssshhhhhhhhiiiiiiiiittttttt. Man. Just cause pulling nonsense out of your ass can get you elected president doesn't mean it's ok, ok?

If that is true, you should run for president by all means.

[Rocky Lionmouth]

Delicious food to cure Rockys ignorance.

I stand corrected and am grateful.