Xiao Yao Pai & Xiantian Dao Yin Shu - [OFFICIAL THREAD]

[effilang]

@ SeekerOfHealing

 

You get it, buddy. You get it...   I really like your comment here:

 

...hope we will understand one day that we do not need to go to caves, living on rice and some greens from tree..

 

Our GM is a TCM doctor. The person who initiated me is an electrical engineer. I am an architectural visualiser.

We do not wear fancy robes. We just look and act like ordinary people.

 

The Dao is natural and ordinary and yet in its simplicity it holds the greatest mystery : )

Edited November 13, 2016 by effilang

[grassmountiansage]

 

I want to open up a little about our relationship with Hu Fa Shen through our xiudao (Cultivation of the Dao)

 

0: Dao Yu (道友)

Here HFS treats us like primary or elementary school students.

If we come across a steep ravine, HFS will help us by holding us up and making sure we don't get hurt.

 

1: Dao Shi (道仕)

Here HFS treats us like secondary school students.

If we come across a steep ravine, HFS will caution us, but we must carry ourselves and jump of our own accord if necessary

 

2: Dao Zhang (道张) - 2a, 2b, 2c.

Here HFS treats us like university students and we already have significant independence and maturity.

If we come across a steep ravine, we are expected to be able to see it ourselves and take the necessary actions.

At this level even if we fall, HFS just observes us and waits for us to take charge and get up.

 

3. Dao Zun (道尊)

Here HFS treats us like graduates from the university of life.

A this point, we are completely independent and on a level where we can work in union with HFS to help others on the most profound spiritual levels.

 

4. Dao Shi (道师)

Here we are granted the authority to represent Tai Shang Lao Jun as official representatives of the celestial realm.

The Daoshi is authorised to delegate representation to those that reach Dao Zun level, so they can initiate others on their behalf.

 

 

Heavenly title is very important. 

 

As a taoist the higher one goes the more aware one becomes of the heavenly court.

 

In my experience it all started with leigong at first I just noticed that he was starring at me. Later I learned that my training was connected to him and that he is known for judging people and serving heaven's justice one who does his alchemy must walk his path.

 

The 3 pure ones that your sect is connected to is highly revered if you are giving people a chance to get heavenly title that is good and something that a lot of teachers in the community dont talk about normally something like this is only for authentic taoist sects and for the successors of such sects in some cases.

 

The tao will only send people out to call others back to the tao.

[effilang]

So, Effi, what of those who do not have these qualities?

 

Are they not the very ones most in need of help (as opposed to rejection) by your school?

 

Yes indeed. Perhaps rejection is a strong word, but then again... it happens.

Let's just say we give them some time to introspect. Something like 5 or 10 years, maybe a lifetime.

 

Then we ask them to come back so we can observe their character and wisdom.

Every ancient master had his methods to test his candidates, It's nothing new.

 

Over the next couple of years I will progressively make it a little more demanding to apply and it's possible that one will have to take and pass a small test.

 

HFS understands that our acquired condition is not our original nature, so generally speaking, all are accepted when it comes to the initiation itself from a soul level, but these Dao Yu will usually have much more gruelling tests with their HFS and for many of those, they often get paired to a pretty bad ass, no bullshit HFS - hahah

 

Now... before one actually gets to that point where they are accepted for initiation, we must do our own work to filter people so that we can maintain a certain level of quality and safety within our school. How we go about doing that, is for us to know. Every school wants good students...

 

I will categorically turn away people who are hungry for power and seek to dominate others, without question.

 

These types of souls are still very young and need time to learn more about life so they can elevate themselves to more virtuous character and sometimes it may just be that their conditioning is so hard that it will take too much effort to re-train them before they stop being a liability to themselves and others. So we turn our attention to those that are ready. Sooner or later all rivers will lead to the ocean, there is no rushing. One's immediate character is evidence of their level of being.

 

When someone comes to learn spiritual cultivation the motivation should be to expand, know ones self, help others and support humanity - and as an organisation we reserve the right to be selective about who we accept under our roof. Our Dao Yu family is big and our regular events often include many little children, so they must be safeguarded from bad influences, the children as well as the adults : )

 

There is no rush when it comes to spiritual cultivation. One can join our school at 60 and still make very significant progress. There is also next life : )

 

When our HFS apply with Tai Shang to represent him and teach under Xiao Yao Pai, their quality must also be checked.

 

The most common question here from everyone is, is HFS safe.

How about is our physical school safe, that is also just as important.

 

So we must also filter some people to guarantee that safety. 

Edited November 13, 2016 by effilang

[SeekerOfHealing]

Yes. I agree 100%. We sometimes need to be rejected but it's not really rejection. I would say we coming to ourselves thru rejection we can really face our original nature, look into oneself. So it's kind of rejection paradox that thru rejection we actually can get into closeness. There are many stories of how rejection helped to understand and dignify person mind and perception on certain things. Losses and rejection stir up something with ourselves which can be actually means for union.

 

For me it's like balloon - like you know those big ones when people travel, to get higher you need to cut off more and more of those bags. You losing something but at the same time you gaining something. You either got hurt with rejection or just end up with more wisdom - that's I think is in our choice for every situation which we can consider any loss. It's all about how we view this loss and our perception of this.

[effilang]

Thank you for answering my questions on your sect and its training.

 

My pleasure. I show respect where respect is granted : )

 

So does the levels in your system have meditations outside the work with xian?

 

Yes there are different exercises we inherit which we can cultivate on our own without the guidance of HFS eg:

- To train certain types of energy during the day when we're at work and can't actively invoke HFS

- Mantra activated exercises to help us interact with environmental energies and more.

 

Also since there is 5 levels does what level does yang shen happen at? Is it really possible for a good student to move to the 5th level of your art? Now when you say convert the body into light do you mean at will and be able to come back into physical form again?

 

After we trigger the disciples Yuan Shen during the initiation, the golden aura of our school wraps around our Hun Shen (Human Spirit). Every time we practice the Hun Shen absorbs the energy of the Divine and for the lack of better phraseology, "downloads" the general Xian blueprint directly from HFS so that our Hun Shen can begin to restructure itself and unify the 3 Hun and 7 Po into one energetic entity; Yang Shen.

 

So every day we practice after initiation, the signature energy of our schools activates to refine us from Yin Shen to Yang Shen, wrapping around us like a cocoon of golden light.

 

After 3 to 5 years of regular practice, the Xiao Shen already begins to form above the head. At first like an amorphous vapour ~1 foot over the Bai Hui point, then later as we absorb more divine energy and practise XTDYS, it starts to take on our physical features and become consciously enabled. All the while HFS protects us so we can practice in peace.

 

So it's almost like giving birth. That is why they call it the immortal birth from the top of the head.

At first it's like a baby, with no intellect, then little by little as our awareness transfers to it to enable its consciousness, it grows and becomes fully aware and fuses into one being that we ourselves are the embodiment of. So just like we are born into the physical world first, and we must learn to crawl, then walk and act and conduct ourselves. It's the same with the immortal birth after we are delivered from Taiji into Wuji - and HFS guides and protects us like a parent.

 

So it's a gradual process.

 

Yes, Yin Shen cannot vibrate low enough to become physical. It can't be touched or even seen, because It's too high on the EM spectrum, but Yang Shen can be both seen and unseen. Material and Immaterial, it is a manifestation of Wuji, so it can disperse into the Dao and cannot be located, or it can condense and have a three dimensional form.

 

I think most Taoist schools aim to achieve this.

 

Is it really possible for a good student to move to the 5th level of your art?

 

Yes, apart from our Shifu we have people on many different levels from 0 to 3.

At the moment our Shifu is the only known inheritor of XTDYS at the GM level (4).

 

"Furthermore every Hu Fa Shen must first be authorised by Tai Shang before they can guide anyone under the celestial branch of our school. So you could say they also go through an application and interview to apply for the position. Then they must follow the curriculum of our school. Its similar to a physical brick and mortar educational institution and the Xian have their posts and responsibilities."

 

Could you elaborate on this?

 

You seem connected with taoist heaven plenty of taoist beleive that lao tzu was an incarnation of Tai Shang Lao Jun have you interacted with him and if so what could you tell us he is like and have you ran into the jade emperor or leigong?

 

Lao Tzu is an incarnation of Tai Shang Lao Jun, yes; also the hermit Guangzhengzi who transmitted XTDYS to Huangdi. I have not interacted with Lei Gong or Yuanshi Tianzun, maybe I will give them a ring in the future.

 

The Dao is very mysterious as I'm sure you know. To every Dao Yu, knowing Tai Shang and knowing the Jade Emperor are like knowing ones own being, and I personally believe that it is an experience we must discover on our own. I could of course ask my masters, by I have long ago abandoned the desire to know of other peoples personal experiences on the path. I only care for my own and enabling others to experience theirs.

 

The mystery of Tai Shang is something I will know better with time. For now, my interactions with him are in the form of formless energy and yet to take the constant form of Laozi as we know him from pictures. I say constant, because I have gotten visions of him, but that is not his true formless state. I try to keep my mind always open, not creating expectations or images of how things aught to be.

 

With time, I am sure I will go deeper into this mystery.

I admit I do not know for now : )

 

Actually, we are all cultivating. I am cultivating. My master is cultivating. My Shifu is cultivating. My Hu Fa Shen is cultivating. All the immortals are also cultivating. Just at different levels. The Dao is infinite : )

 

There are many spirits as you know and many immortals, but a teacher is a very special type of person indeed and not everyone can do it. Just like in our physical branch we select those who will become teachers and can represent our school on Earth, Tai Shang also selects those who will represent him directly as Hu Fa Shen in Heaven. I do not know his criteria, but I know that our Xian are of a very high quality, in virtue, in skill and in wisdom.

 

Tai Shang's first direct representatives are Er Lang Shen and Jiu Tian Xuan Nu.

 

Again some of these questions go beyond my current reach so I cannot provide as much detail as I'd like to. Maybe you will find out before me, maybe I will find out before you. We can share with each other whatever the case : )

Edited November 13, 2016 by effilang

[gatito]

Effi,

 

Thanks for your detailed and cogent reply.

 

However, for the sake of clarity, a supplemental question in response to an element of your reply.

 

Were you implying that your school is the only Way?

[effilang]

Effi,

 

Thanks for your detailed and cogent reply.

However, for the sake of clarity, a supplemental question in response to an element of your reply.

Were you implying that your school is the only Way?

 

You're welcome.

 

Of course not. I wouldn't dare be so bold or ignorant or arrogant.

 

The Dao to me simply means existence. I believe that the Dao is formless in its highest state, but that it spirals down and takes form and refracts through relative consciousness, tradition and culture to create the many branches of beliefs and schools we have present in the world today.

 

I believe there are clear paths to it and I believe there are ones that are difficult to traverse.

I also believe that there are many schools who do not reach the deepest point of the Dao, but find residence somewhere around it in a celestial reality created by their own conscious projections and the consensus of their practitioners - Because of this each school has their vibration and that vibration corresponds to their position on the celestial ladder; a position which can only be elevated by going deeper into emptiness.

 

To this degree, I believe there are many schools who have relative status and rank that are always evolving and I believe that they all aspire to point to the same thing:     "...................."

 

My aim is only to help others find a path that can help them move forward, but I wish for each individual to be the captain of their own journey and an independent being.

 

As they say, we are all walking each other back home, hand in hand.

Edited November 13, 2016 by effilang

[gatito]

Again Effi, thank you for your reply.

 

I've no further questions.

[effilang]

Again Effi, thank you for your reply.

I've no further questions.

 

Thank you for your attention.

[gatito]

My pleasure Effi.

[Wu Ming Jen]

It has always fascinated me that the Taoist Gods were exemplary people that lived on earth. The Taoist Gods are an archetype of the best qualities of human nature and their different positions or jobs show how this can create civilized harmony on earth.

[effilang]

Can you please share your researches about lineage, texts and other important things that constitutes the transmission of knowledge in Daoist schools, where all that in XYP?

 

Welcome to the Xiao Yao Pai thread, opendao.

 

Since you are part of a school that vehemently opposes our tradition, I have to ask; by being here, are you planning on changing your school, learning from our teachings, or have you simply come to make trouble?

 

Why the sudden interest in Xiao Yao Pai?

Is your school unsatisfactory?

To what end?

 

Your enquiry seems very strongly to project your own and your schools values, while ignoring those of the school whose thread you find yourself in. Let me illuminate you about this matter, since it seems you have not taken the time to read through the thread:

 

Xiao Yao Pai does not transmit knowledge related to our essential spiritual cultivation through text and "other important things" and these things do not constitute the medium of transmission in our tradition.

 

To find out how we receive teachings or learn in our school, please read through the thread more carefully.

 

Finally, I want to add that you do not have a very good reputation on the forum, so please be mindful of your intentions and attitude here. I will be keeping a watchful eye... 

Edited November 14, 2016 by effilang

[effilang]

Another testimonial just came in from one of the newly initiated Dao Yu.

Thank you for sharing Gerry, good luck to both of you guys : )

 

TESTIMONIAL 33

 

My experiences so far with Xian Tian Dao Yin Shu method has been very encouraging.

 

Prior to the initiation in Virginia which occurred a few weeks ago, my husband and I had tried different spiritual paths simply to find a divine connection and meaning to everyday life.

 

The most significant path had been for the last 12 years in a Hindu tradition, with a guru and shaktipat.

 

When we decided to pursue the XTDYS path, I thought if my husband could be healed from a condition of constant muscular pain and fatigue which has not been diagnosable or treatable, that in itself would be a miracle.

 

The path we had followed for many years, although having much value in gaining spiritual knowledge, had not yielded any results in improving with the physical and mental body. I still found myself allowing thoughts to divert from present awareness, engaging in mind chatter, worry etc .. although meditation was beneficial I thought there was still a lack in progress amidst spontaneous kriya movements and I grew more tamasic (sleepy).

 

For the initiation, meeting Masters Nina and Fleming was a blessing in itself. As described before in others' accounts, their calm and clear energy was truly affecting toward all. All that I wanted was to be nearby and listen to their explanations, stories and kind laughter.

 

The introductory teaching of the path was clear and simple although packed with information. Initiation was a wonderful experience!! The best experience one could hope for. Meeting wonderful people, both new and older initiates who were so kind and gracious.

 

On initiation day, I experienced the movements I had read about in tao bums forum and recounted by others here. In the following days I felt an increase in physical movements especially if I chose to stand. Due to issues in lower back and hips, I was doing hip rotations, neck rotations, qigong like movements, some odd half-back bends. After an hour of practice I would feel clarity and groundedness throughout the day and received positive feedback from others such as openness (my driving skills greatly improved ! lol).

 

I began micro hand gestures, the pointer finger and thumb pressed together doing counterclockwise rotations, while doing this in the air in front of my eyes, face and widening to shoulder width, then larger circular rotations with arms, perhaps scrubbing my subtle body?

 

Wow, I never felt a connection like this before! I think the main difference between this path and others is that it requires an open mind, good intention/faith to establish the connection with FFS, and not devotion of the heart to a guru/minister/ or other human intermediary that other religions require.

 

I am confident XTDYS will equip me to understand what it is that "I" need so that I can progressively live a life of love and truth with others.

 

Lastly, my husband has already experienced some improvement in his health as his FFS has guided movements that focus on critical pain areas.

 

Thank you for this opportunity and I feel enormous gratitude to Nina and Fleming as well as to Xuan Daoji, Xanina and all the others that made this event happen in the U.S.!

 

Very Respectfully,

Gerry B.

DAO YING - OCT 2016 - VIRGINIA | US

Edited November 13, 2016 by effilang

[effilang]

thanks effi, I know what you answer and read previous posts. I asked SeekerOfHealing about specific things he mentioned that you cannot help me with.

 

Fair enough. However, you tactfully skipped these 4 questions.

Do you have a problem with answering them?

 

Are you here to make trouble?

Why the sudden interest in Xiao Yao Pai?

Is your school unsatisfactory?

To what end? (with your enquiry)

 

You'll have to excuse my suspicions, but like I said. You don't have a very good reputation on the forum and have demonstrably shown your distaste for our tradition in the past, so I think my questions are justified by your "sudden" appearance here and your contradictorily keen interest in our school...

 

I'd appreciate it if you answered them with some dignity, rather than avoiding them.

It's not very good etiquette and not a good first impression of your arrival here.

Edited November 14, 2016 by effilang

[Vajra Fist]

Will there be another initiation in the UK before October next year?

[effilang]

Will there be another initiation in the UK before October next year?

 

The sand hasn't quite settled yet from the UK and US events this month, but once I put everything in its place again, I'll have a look at my schedule for next year.

 

It's still a bit early to say and I have my eye on India as we have around 30 people waiting to be initiated there, however I will plan for the UK and US again in 2017 - possibly around the end of the year again, but there is a slight chance it may be in the summer as I want to use the roof at one of our event places for some outdoor practice.

 

I'll make an announcement in the FB group, Webpage, FB Page (links in my signature) as well as in this thread, in due time and I'll make sure to give everyone at least 6 months in advance to prepare.

Edited November 13, 2016 by effilang

[effilang]

As I heard, I have a reputation to tell what Teachers in alchemy schools in China think to help people do their choice and practice better, and I heard some people think it's bad for their ventures... So not sure what is so bad about my reputation... Anyway, it's not why I'm here.

 

I have an interest in SeekerOfHealing's words and, possibly, others comments on them in future. For now no interest to discuss anything else.

 

Hello OpenDao,

 

Despite your reputation on the forum, your offensive behaviour towards other members, and your unwarantedly demonstrable disdane and distaste for our tradition, I gave you two friendly opportunities to answer some introductory questions to help settle you into the thread and assure me that you are here to be a productive contributor and not a disruptor and troublemaker.

 

You've declined on both occasions to respect that simple request and have tactfully avoided to answer each time.

 

On the back of this and your former exhibitions of your character in this forum, I'm afraid I'm not comfortable with having you participate in this thread and find your general temperament to be one of disrespect and contempt.

 

I apologise for the inconvenience.

 

Please kindly, contact SeekerOfHealing directly to receive the information you are after. I am sure you can post any developments thereof in one of your threads to discuss your findings further.

 

I have also sent this message to you by PM.

 

Best wishes on your way and may the Dao guide you well.

Xuan Daoji

 

UPDATE:

 

While It is not in my character (nor these forum's rules) to share personal messages. I will say that, your communication to me in private after my final message to you here, made it abundantly clear that my decision in asking you to leave was justified. Despite that you still continue to post here.

 

If you know that you have any, please show some dignity, some integrity and some self-respect and stop coming back here. 

Your intentions and attitude are not appreciated and you are not welcome.

Edited November 14, 2016 by effilang

[Wu Ming Jen]

I am from a different school that is a very old lineage. dao yin is practiced daily and has many benefits. Immortality training exist because we are all immortal not more in sages or less in those who have no training.

 

The true master is within so my advise is not to ever transfer our abilities to an entity outside of yourself. The identity or who we choose to place above us to judge or help  is a reflection of the true spirit within us.

 

We are all equal to the ascended immortals so play laugh and sing. we tell this to those who get too heady or lost about the tradition it is about being, so be well 

[SeekerOfHealing]

Sorry I was off a bit. What resources you would like to know ? In Han manuscripts related to methods of immortality Xiao Yao Pai methods are recognized as "recalibration of the body system of depolarization" as opposed taji cultivation focused directly od wuji energy. I will bring those manuscripts when I will find a title (my friend translated it for me from chinese when I was researching). Wudang traditions also recognize such practices. At the same time Xiao Yao Pai is official recognized as Taoist school (same with Wu Liu Pai etc.)

 

Lineage in Xiao Yao Pai is celestial or heavenly mandate (which was already said) so to trace is different way then hou tian traditions when you have those lineages on the paper. Xiao Yao is translated as "blissful wanderers" or "free wanderers" (It have also couple more meanings) which some of them appears in the old manuscripts described as such with that art. Deep research in the academical sense of tracing is very hard because of celestial nature of the school but it can be research in the sense of authenticity - so if anybody have doubt that this school is not "official" or just fake-dao or something like that just did not do any research and base his judgement on the knowledge around his own school which can be very unreasonable. with little more time i will post some more things in chinese etc.

 

but I'm not saying about methods or anything like that - if we are speaking just of Xiao Yao Pai in general - no doubt about it. From what I understand I read in those topics I see that's how the school is present in the west overlays with which I understand to be as authentic school based on materials before. Many students in china are silently interested in Xiao Yao Pai (I mean wu liu pai and longmenpai students which i personally know)

Edited November 14, 2016 by SeekerOfHealing

[YiYinYiYang]

.

Edited August 12, 2017 by YiYinYiYang

[effilang]

@ YiYinYiYang

 

I don't know who these people are, but It would be highly unethical to submit the proof you are asking for here.

 

I strongly recommend that you take this topic to a private conversation where you can share sensitive information about persons, and in addition prevent this thread from going off topic.

Edited November 15, 2016 by effilang

[grassmountiansage]

In China there are "teachers" who took the plubic Longmen teachings to build up their own system and call it Longmenpai, same with Wu-Liu pai, on wechat there are advertisments for Wu-Liu pai neidan courses, but when you investigate it further, it seems that what they teach is only their own theoretical understanding of the Wu-Liu pai canon mixed with their experience in various methods of breath work, meditation and taijiquan. 

Personally, i don't see why disciples from the real two schools would be interested in Xiaoyaopai since the systems they practice are already complete, another reason i think why they would not be interested is that in the context of immortality, past Teachers and patriarchs of a lineage are supposed to be still on duty at various levels of the transmission line...

Can you make sure and prove that the students you are talking about are initiated in the real schools and not students from the counterfiets? 

 

We from authentic pai may have another interest in Xiao Yao Pai it is always useful to make friends plus if the tao in the west is to grow we must give it some room its good if the sects talk and do some light jousting in time a mutual respect will build.

[Walker]

What a funny experience lol. 

 

It's got it's hilarious sides, for sure. But as with all cults it's got a tragic side, too.

 

you can also visit Bai Yun Guan (White Cloud Temple) in Beijing. You can ask the officials there to see the list of China's ancient schools as affirmed by the Chinese Daoist Association. Xiao Yao Pai is in 33rd place on the list.

 

Is there any chance you can tell us what the name of that document is? Is there an official we're supposed to visit?

 

I do not have any other form of proof that is more substantial that that of one's own personal sense based experience and I truly believe than anyone who favors theory, philosophy and text over actual experiences and results is in some serious fort-knox-level-lock-down denial, and I'll go as far as to say afraid of being proven wrong. That's why a few people here will love to sit and text me and criticize me, but when I openly invite them to come and test us, all I hear is the crickets in the background....

 

I see your point. But on the other hand, even if we meet in a chat room and then you're able to demonstrate your ability to push me from a distance, unfortunately it proves nothing other than the fact that you possess the magic ability to push me from a distance. Maybe you possess amazing powers of suggestion. Maybe there are such things as demons, and one of them is helping you. How could I know? Thus it is that there's a warning that one hears plenty of cultivators in Asia make: never make the mistake of thinking that anybody's extraordinary ability is proof of anything other than their ability to do something extraordinary (and, if you do see something extraordinary, don't be too sure it's not an illusion!).

 

If the results are real, then obviously what XYP offers is unique and priceless beyond description. But to those of us who've been around the block in the Asian spirituality subculture, the claims aren't terribly unique. Over the years I've heard numerous stories about a handful of lay Buddhist masters from students of theirs who swear up and down that their masters are capable of knock-your-socks-off displays of ability. In more than one case I have been invited me to come and see for myself, and I've been given an opportunity to enter into tutelage with three of of these teachers.

 

I know a student of one of these masters who has told me she developed clairvoyant abilities by practicing his brand of Buddhism, and who once believed his claim that she was a manifestation of Green Tara, and who gave me a book informing readers that so many of their fellow believers are heading to the Pure Lands that apartment blocks are already being built there to prepare for all of the newcomers (no joke). She invited me to join more than once. All I would need to do is write a letter and be accepted, and then I would be able to do practices which would let me develop abilities "very quickly." Having had already long ago had one very bad reaction to a practice given to me by a teacher offering fast-track "shengong" (and receiving admonitions from my most trusted Daoist mentor: "this is the type of mistake one should only make once," and, "be very cautious whenever anybody starts talking about shen practices right off the bat"), it was not hard for me to decline my friend's offers. As time passed, I saw her grow disillusioned with her great master, a man who is surrounded by controversy; whose practices led her to such imbalance that she said she nearly lost her mind; and whose students, while indeed supposedly developing interesting powers, nevertheless do not necessarily transcend the three basic components Buddhists identify at the root of so much human suffering: greed, wrath, and stupidity. Somewhat sadly, my friend has struck me and several of our mutual friends as somewhat imbalanced and gullible for years now. Some down-to-earth, downright boring cultivation might be just the ticket, but that's not for everybody. I've read a smattering of this organization's publications, it makes use of "spontaneous" practices which allow one to connect straight to the Dao or whathaveyou. If I recall correctly, they like to refer to their methods as "spirituality on nitrous oxide," or something to that effect.

 

Another fellow who I met about eight years ago in Guizhou tried very hard to get me to join his master, another lay Buddhist, this time one who could supposedly put his hands on you and get you to see something "close to" your Buddhanature, was impervious to cold, and was just all-around amazing. He instructed me to close my eyes, visualize his face, and then relax and let a dragon--so the story went, anyway--take control of my body and lead me to do their kung-fu, which would cure all of my illnesses and lead me on the way to realization. I saw my friend do the practice but I got the heebie-jeebies from these guys big time and refused to even try. Four years later when I saw my friend again he had left his great master and abandoned all of his teachings. He came to his decision when he was meditating shirtless in the winter on a mountaintop and kept getting sicker and sicker, only to be told, "you haven't overcome your mental obstacles: keep meditating!" He did, and shat a large quantity of blood, only to get the same instruction once more. After the second large bloody stool, and "near death," he had a friend carry him down the mountain.

 

It's probably in some ways unfair to be bringing this up in an explicitly XYP-related thread, but on the other hand I think it's fair enough to want to shed light directly onto the complexity that's created when, on the very surface at least, there appear to be similarities between your school and many others that exist in China and in the Chinese diaspora. 

 

There's a tricky reality we humans face, which is that it's really hard for us to assess anything we don't fully understand, and it's easy to get wowed early on by things that, in retrospect, weren't actually good for us, and indeed might even have been harmful. In religion, spirituality, and esoteric practices, I think we're all gambling a bit when we plunge into anything new. I think we continue to be gambling for quite a long time after we've started, too. "Only time will tell," the saying goes...

 

In sum, I've no way to judge you or XYP (I wouldn't even feel comfortable rendering a judgement after attending an initiation; I think that the traditional Chinese advice to observe a master for about three years before coming to any conclusions is extremely practical), so I'm not throwing your school into the same basket as some of the worrisome things I've seen in my wanderings. But I don't think "Fort-Know-level-lock-down-denial" is the only possible factor that would make people choose not to give XYP a test drive. Like I said, in Asia one can easily find oneself being advised to be careful when hearing promises like the ones XYP makes. I may be wrong but I think I see echoes of this in Wu Ming Jen's post. While some people who make these warnings are just parroting what other's have said, there are also plenty of people around here who've got firsthand experiences that lead them to say what they do. 

 

Most schools cannot bear their heart raw like we can and then hand the stake to the doubters, because few can demonstrate the results even after a life time of supposed cultivation, but they are more than happy to tell you to practice for 10 years and pay exorbitant fees. People want proof NOW. Not in 10 years not in 20 years.

 

Yep, it's a conundrum. Certainly many some schools deal with this conundrum by explaining that marvelous results are beside the point unless a person first has cultivated lots of wisdom--and one of the marks of wisdom, of course, is patience, meaning that the mark of being ready for abilities is no longer even caring about them. Talk about a catch 22.

 

Others may answer that that's just sour grapes; naturally, the "slow down and be patient" schools only tell you that marvels are unimportant because they have nothing to offer!

 

Probably any solution to this conundrum will leave some people unsatisfied. 

 

After all, what sort of a master cannot demonstrate his skill?

 

Another conundrum is that not everybody who demonstrates skill is worthy of being called master... and quite possibly not everybody who refuses to isn't...

 

Maybe one day when you have the opportunity you can come to verify our claim at an initiation. Then you can close this chapter in your book of well founded curiosity and doubt and open up a brand new one. Until that day comes, if ever it does, I will do my best to answer your questions here.

 

Ya never know, eh?

 

Well, since you're happy to answer questions, please ask your Chinese-speaking fellow disciples what the name of the document in Baiyunguan we should be looking for is called. Thanks!

Edited November 15, 2016 by Walker

[SeekerOfHealing]

In China there are "teachers" who took the plubic Longmen teachings to build up their own system and call it Longmenpai, same with Wu-Liu pai, on wechat there are advertisments for Wu-Liu pai neidan courses, but when you investigate it further, it seems that what they teach is only their own theoretical understanding of the Wu-Liu pai canon mixed with their experience in various methods of breath work, meditation and taijiquan. 

Personally, i don't see why disciples from the real two schools would be interested in Xiaoyaopai since the systems they practice are already complete, another reason i think why they would not be interested is that in the context of immortality, past Teachers and patriarchs of a lineage are supposed to be still on duty at various levels of the transmission line...  

Can you make sure and prove that the students you are talking about are initiated in the real schools and not students from the counterfiets? 

It's natural that people always search for better - it's called "optimization" in biology, you can not help it as every human is influenced by this part of aspect of the brain. Same goes for people in spiritual schools. I can tell you that my friend which under longmenpai master (not wang liping) probably would be taking initiation in XYP if they let him do ii and find him right person to do so. (I study under longmenpai teacher too and the results are pretty awesome but I'm not official student as I wanted only some healing methods and to replenish ming/yuanjing/yuanqi as I practice a lot of qigong and regular meditation).

 

So yes those students want to have better results which they see (like me) Xiao Ya Pai can bring to them/me but not in greedy manner but you put yourself into practice - in that sense.

[Satyalok]

It's got it's hilarious sides, for sure. But as with all cults it's got a tragic side, too.

 

 

Is there any chance you can tell us what the name of that document is? Is there an official we're supposed to visit?

 

 

I see your point. But on the other hand, even if we meet in a chat room and then you're able to demonstrate your ability to push me from a distance, unfortunately it proves nothing other than the fact that you possess the magic ability to push me from a distance. Maybe you possess amazing powers of suggestion. Maybe there are such things as demons, and one of them is helping you. How could I know? Thus it is that there's a warning that one hears plenty of cultivators in Asia make: never make the mistake of thinking that anybody's extraordinary ability is proof of anything other than their ability to do something extraordinary (and, if you do see something extraordinary, don't be too sure it's not an illusion!).

 

If the results are real, then obviously what XYP offers is unique and priceless beyond description. But to those of us who've been around the block in the Asian spirituality subculture, the claims aren't terribly unique. Over the years I've heard numerous stories about a handful of lay Buddhist masters from students of theirs who swear up and down that their masters are capable of knock-your-socks-off displays of ability. In more than one case I have been invited me to come and see for myself, and I've been given an opportunity to enter into tutelage with three of of these teachers.

 

I know a student of one of these masters who has told me she developed clairvoyant abilities by practicing his brand of Buddhism, and who once believed his claim that she was a manifestation of Green Tara, and who gave me a book informing readers that so many of their fellow believers are heading to the Pure Lands that apartment blocks are already being built there to prepare for all of the newcomers (no joke). She invited me to join more than once. All I would need to do is write a letter and be accepted, and then I would be able to do practices which would let me develop abilities "very quickly." Having had already long ago had one very bad reaction to a practice given to me by a teacher offering fast-track "shengong" (and receiving admonitions from my most trusted Daoist mentor: "this is the type of mistake one should only make once," and, "be very cautious whenever anybody starts talking about shen practices right off the bat"), it was not hard for me to decline my friend's offers. As time passed, I saw her grow disillusioned with her great master, a man who is surrounded by controversy; whose practices led her to such imbalance that she said she nearly lost her mind; and whose students, while indeed supposedly developing interesting powers, nevertheless do not necessarily transcend the three basic components Buddhists identify at the root of so much human suffering: greed, wrath, and stupidity. Somewhat sadly, my friend has struck me and several of our mutual friends as somewhat imbalanced and gullible for years now. Some down-to-earth, downright boring cultivation might be just the ticket, but that's not for everybody. I've read a smattering of this organization's publications, it makes use of "spontaneous" practices which allow one to connect straight to the Dao or whathaveyou. If I recall correctly, they like to refer to their methods as "spirituality on nitrous oxide," or something to that effect.

 

Another fellow who I met about eight years ago in Guizhou tried very hard to get me to join his master, another lay Buddhist, this time one who could supposedly put his hands on you and get you to see something "close to" your Buddhanature, was impervious to cold, and was just all-around amazing. He instructed me to close my eyes, visualize his face, and then relax and let a dragon--so the story went, anyway--take control of my body and lead me to do their kung-fu, which would cure all of my illnesses and lead me on the way to realization. I saw my friend do the practice but I got the heebie-jeebies from these guys big time and refused to even try. Four years later when I saw my friend again he had left his great master and abandoned all of his teachings. He came to his decision when he was meditating shirtless in the winter on a mountaintop and kept getting sicker and sicker, only to be told, "you haven't overcome your mental obstacles: keep meditating!" He did, and shat a large quantity of blood, only to get the same instruction once more. After the second large bloody stool, and "near death," he had a friend carry him down the mountain.

 

It's probably in some ways unfair to be bringing this up in an explicitly XYP-related thread, but on the other hand I think it's fair enough to want to shed light directly onto the complexity that's created when, on the very surface at least, there appear to be similarities between your school and many others that exist in China and in the Chinese diaspora. 

 

There's a tricky reality we humans face, which is that it's really hard for us to assess anything we don't fully understand, and it's easy to get wowed early on by things that, in retrospect, weren't actually good for us, and indeed might even have been harmful. In religion, spirituality, and esoteric practices, I think we're all gambling a bit when we plunge into anything new. I think we continue to be gambling for quite a long time after we've started, too. "Only time will tell," the saying goes...

 

In sum, I've no way to judge you or XYP (I wouldn't even feel comfortable rendering a judgement after attending an initiation; I think that the traditional Chinese advice to observe a master for about three years before coming to any conclusions is extremely practical), so I'm not throwing your school into the same basket as some of the worrisome things I've seen in my wanderings. But I don't think "Fort-Know-level-lock-down-denial" is the only possible factor that would make people choose not to give XYP a test drive. Like I said, in Asia one can easily find oneself being advised to be careful when hearing promises like the ones XYP makes. I may be wrong but I think I see echoes of this in Wu Ming Jen's post. While some people who make these warnings are just parroting what other's have said, there are also plenty of people around here who've got firsthand experiences that lead them to say what they do. 

 

 

Yep, it's a conundrum. Certainly many some schools deal with this conundrum by explaining that marvelous results are beside the point unless a person first has cultivated lots of wisdom--and one of the marks of wisdom, of course, is patience, meaning that the mark of being ready for abilities is no longer even caring about them. Talk about a catch 22.

 

Others may answer that that's just sour grapes; naturally, the "slow down and be patient" schools only tell you that marvels are unimportant because they have nothing to offer!

 

Probably any solution to this conundrum will leave some people unsatisfied. 

 

 

Another conundrum is that not everybody who demonstrates skill is worthy of being called master... and quite possibly not everybody who refuses to isn't...

 

 

Ya never know, eh?

 

Well, since you're happy to answer questions, please ask your Chinese-speaking fellow disciples what the name of the document in Baiyunguan we should be looking for is called. Thanks!

Hi Walker,

 

To add as a contrast to effi's video of shengong, the daoyin that my FFS has me do is quite specific. For example, I will sit zazen (something I've never done) and simply qigong breathe to my lower abdomen; hold both palms at various centers on my torso, and perform gentle stretches of both shoulders. The stretching is easing up crisis pain from years-long debilitating muscular disease. It's too early to tell, but I've seen improvement in flexibility and strength, and little milestones like being able to sleep in more than one position, give me hope that I can heal.

 

 If I had to guess, spontaneous qigong/practices can source from likely infinite origins--the body's innate intelligence, spirits, emptiness, the charisma of another. I have been a part of a shaktipat lineage--practicing it's sadhana for over 12 years--that also moves us by grace of Shakti awakening. Most of the movements are repetitive, however sometimes a practice will drop out of no where (asana, mudra, mantra, pranayam, etc). My guess it is intelligence of emptiness/divine, and we are told it's to purify karma for realization (can take lifetimes). The difference in XYP is it is specific to the school, with a delineated method that is shared among students. The best example for me so early on is the qigong breathing, it is exactly as it was discussed at the retreat and something I've never encountered, and right away FFS is making me do it  Also, I am well beyond suggestibility (35 years of seeking and promises) I rarely get anything I expect and feared that XYP may be just 'another' spontaneous practice. I am pleased to find out that it is not.