Xiao Yao Pai & Xiantian Dao Yin Shu - [OFFICIAL THREAD]

[SeekerOfHealing]

grassmountiansage, on 09 Nov 2016 - 12:30 AM, said:

Ha ha you dont know. Why does everyone act so high ha ha.

u come on a taoist forum and think that you are the only one.

Only true sincerity and humility can reflect the natural state.

The only thing a taoist fears is the virtue of others.

We come from a gate that represents the earthly plane if someone of our lineage shows up it means that your lineage has fucked up.....

We come from the divine qilin of heaven that sits on the right and left hand of god sent to protect this realm but yes we will come check you out it is our right to remove lineages off of the map.

Thus is the right of all of those who have the purple gold elixir.

Btw we know all of what happen from persia to india to china....

 

 

Are you serious? If you have any cultivation results you can feel energy of this school and people around. Push them and you will die or your sifu, if you cultivate energy then you know the real without any talking - you can sense how this lineage is pretty powerful but in the good way, no show off way. You trying to do show off and should be ashamed that people are getting results here, other people experience healing from suffering - where are your results and people with effects? Do you ave any compassion ?

 

Do not act like mad person. Bring your results here if you want to bargain. 

[effilang]

Hehe,

 

It's all very funny really. Many people just like to talk, but do not offer any proof of anything.

 

Anybody can visit our group to see the testimonials from people, even those that were just initiated several days ago! And we offer anybody the opportunity to come and attend an initiation to determine if we are lying or not : )

 

There's no need to talk. It's just that simple, so I don't know why people always prefer to just talk : )

I hope grassmountainsage will come with his Sifu, so I can record it and the truth can be known.

 

At the end of the day, in XYP we are just focusing on helping others with their spiritual cultivation and encouraging them to perform acts of kindness through basic humanitarianism. I can't imagine why anybody would feel so triggered by that, but to each their own.

 

Again. Anyone who wants to test us is welcome, but we are peaceful, so please don't bring your anger to the initiation. People come there from all over the world to relax and experience something personal and transformative.

 

It's all settled then.

I will see you and your Sifu at the next initiation.

 

Look forward to meeting you 

Edited November 9, 2016 by effilang

[Brian]

Hehe,

 

It's all very funny really. Many people just like to talk, but do not offer any proof of anything.

 

Anybody can visit our group to see the testimonials from people, even those that were just initiated several days ago! And we offer anybody the opportunity to come and attend an initiation to determine if we are lying or not : )

 

There's no need to talk. It's just that simple, so I don't know why people always prefer to just talk : )

I hope grassmountainsage will come with his Sifu, so I can record it and the truth can be known.

 

At the end of the day, in XYP we are just focusing on helping others with their spiritual cultivation and encouraging them to perform acts of kindness through basic humanitarianism. I can't imagine why anybody would feel so triggered by that, but to each their own.

 

Again. Anyone who wants to test us is welcome, but we are peaceful, so please don't bring your anger to the initiation. People come there from all over the world to relax and experience something personal and transformative.

 

It's all settled then.

I will see you and your Sifu at the next initiation.

 

Look forward to meeting you

Your behavior in this thread rings out loud and clear.

 

_/\_

 

Light,

Brian

[Walker]

Hi Effilang,

 

Can we see some testimonials from people who've stuck with the school for a long time? Or can we hear about some of your experiences now that you've been practicing for a long time?

 

You have spoken before about some students being able to directly hold conversations with their fufashen immediately after initiation, and you also speak about all sorts of quite dramatic changes occurring for those of you who make progress in the system over the long term. And yet, in all of the testimonials I ever can recall seeing here, the only thing that separates what people are talking about from good-old qigong zifagong as well as the effects people here report from Max's Kunlun, Jenny Lamb's spontaneous practice, Michael Lomax's Stillness Movement, etc., is this: belief. They attribute what's happening to the "FFS," but that's after they've been given an extensive theoretical education that explains the phenomena and its mechanisms before it occurs. You show that they report experiencing the phenomenon, and they take the existence of the phenomenon as evidence for the validity of Xiao Yao Pai's explanation. But all of these people have been prepped. This begs the question: is their surety that XYP's explanation is accurate any different from the surety of people who've already been "initiated" into teachings on catching the Holy Ghost going into dramatic spontaneous movements at a Pentecostal revival? They will happily and with extreme confidence tell you that they know exactly what is happening, and why it's happening.

 

My firsthand experience, research, and the many, many anecdotes I've heard over the years have lead me to believe that spontaneous "practice" isn't all that hard of a thing to trigger in human beings. That is probably especially true when one considers that most of the humans we're dealing with in any setting devoted to this behavior have self-selected and are in fact looking for a certain type of goods. Even our "curious skeptic" in the most recent testimonial can ultimately barely contain his desire to taste the Kool Aid.

 

I've raised this question long before, and years later, we're still just seeing XYP testimony from rank beginners. As wonderful as it is (truly) for a man to go off of dialysis, you've still shown us nothing to suggest that practitioners jump a bridge from "typical zifagong" to directly experiencing anything that proves that the Xiao Yao Pai explanation for what is going on and why is any more valid than the explanation a Baptist preacher, late 20th century qigong master in the PRC, or Kunlun student would offer.

 

Could you offer testimonials from people who report actually directly experiencing the vast cosmology that you paint for us here? Do you yourself now, after several years with your school, hold actual verbal discussions with a spiritual entity, or several of them? Do you--not in a dream but in the completely conscious state that you say is the mark of XYP practice--have the ability to enter into the wuji realm and confirm firsthand for yourself that what you say about this celestial hierarchy, gold auras, immortals affiliated and unaffiliated with various lineages, and so forth is not just a "teaching" but an actual, tangible experience available to you as a living human being?

 

I know it is not typically considered to be polite in traditional Daoist circles to ask another about his personal practice, but then again, as you say yourself, the XYP way is pretty clearly one that has divorced itself from much that is traditional. I think that the questions I'm asking are quite loudly begged by all of the testimonials you place here.

[effilang]

Hi Effilang,

 

Can we see some testimonials from people who've stuck with the school for a long time? Or can we hear about some of your experiences now that you've been practicing for a long time?

 

You have spoken before about some students being able to directly hold conversations with their fufashen immediately after initiation, and you also speak about all sorts of quite dramatic changes occurring for those of you who make progress in the system over the long term. And yet, in all of the testimonials I ever can recall seeing here, the only thing that separates what people are talking about from good-old qigong zifagong as well as the effects people here report from Max's Kunlun, Jenny Lamb's spontaneous practice, Michael Lomax's Stillness Movement, etc., is this: belief. They attribute what's happening to the "FFS," but that's after they've been given an extensive theoretical education that explains the phenomena and its mechanisms before it occurs. You show that they report experiencing the phenomenon, and they take the existence of the phenomenon as evidence for the validity of Xiao Yao Pai's explanation. But all of these people have been prepped. This begs the question: is their surety that XYP's explanation is accurate any different from the surety of people who've already been "initiated" into teachings on catching the Holy Ghost going into dramatic spontaneous movements at a Pentecostal revival? They will happily and with extreme confidence tell you that they know exactly what is happening, and why it's happening.

 

My firsthand experience, research, and the many, many anecdotes I've heard over the years have lead me to believe that spontaneous "practice" isn't all that hard of a thing to trigger in human beings. That is probably especially true when one considers that most of the humans we're dealing with in any setting devoted to this behavior have self-selected and are in fact looking for a certain type of goods. Even our "curious skeptic" in the most recent testimonial can ultimately barely contain his desire to taste the Kool Aid.

 

I've raised this question long before, and years later, we're still just seeing XYP testimony from rank beginners. As wonderful as it is (truly) for a man to go off of dialysis, you've still shown us nothing to suggest that practitioners jump a bridge from "typical zifagong" to directly experiencing anything that proves that the Xiao Yao Pai explanation for what is going on and why is any more valid than the explanation a Baptist preacher, late 20th century qigong master in the PRC, or Kunlun student would offer.

 

Could you offer testimonials from people who report actually directly experiencing the vast cosmology that you paint for us here? Do you yourself now, after several years with your school, hold actual verbal discussions with a spiritual entity, or several of them? Do you--not in a dream but in the completely conscious state that you say is the mark of XYP practice--have the ability to enter into the wuji realm and confirm firsthand for yourself that what you say about this celestial hierarchy, gold auras, immortals affiliated and unaffiliated with various lineages, and so forth is not just a "teaching" but an actual, tangible experience available to you as a living human being?

 

I know it is not typically considered to be polite in traditional Daoist circles to ask another about his personal practice, but then again, as you say yourself, the XYP way is pretty clearly one that has divorced itself from much that is traditional. I think that the questions I'm asking are quite loudly begged by all of the testimonials you place here.

 

 

Really solid questions, Walker. I really appreciate that. Before I try to answer them, perhaps we can try something more practical if you would honor me with 10 minutes of your time in TDB live chat?

 

I feel that If I can let you experience it yourself, I will not need to even reply to your questions.

If that does not yield any results, however, then I will answer your question here in text, alas, again, these will be but my experiences alone, and nothing that can really substantiate my claims for you

 

My words will always be my words, but if you can have your own experience, then you can understand for yourself.

 

Please PM me here or on Facebook: xuan daoji and I can try to give you a direct experience.

It very well may be the better option to ease your doubts, but please be aware that it is not at my discretion, I only have the authority to ask Tai Shang and my Hu Fa Shen, but not to "make" it happen.

 

Thanks : )

 

PS: I've arranged for a testimonial from a Dao Zhang whom has over 10 years plus on me on your behalf. I'll post that here when it has been issued and I'm happy to share my own experiences.

Edited November 10, 2016 by effilang

[effilang]

Umm its not settled I asked you basic questions that if answered could benefit the whole board you ignored them deleted them and then gave a bs reason for not answering after saying you would Xiao Yao Pai is trash!

 

I dont see why anyone would train it what skill would they be developing and from who tell us more about the man giving the seminars???

 

Your questions were not deleted, they are still there...stop trolling.

There is really no need for this anymore, so please don't force me to have to remove your posts again.

 

I've kindly extended my invitation to you and your Sifu and I look forward to meeting you both at the next initiation, where you can directly test us and determine the truth. Theory and philosophy cannot achieve this. Try to understand that. Personal experience is necessary otherwise you are just relying on my opinion.

 

When you come with your Sifu, you can carry out an investigation and you can have clarity.

I will record it to make sure everyone can also see it afterwards in a video so there is no ambiguity.

 

If you can't be patient until then, please have a look at our Facebook Group where all these questions have been answered before. I gave you the link in my earlier posts.

 

I look forward to meeting you.

 

Best wishes.

Edited November 10, 2016 by effilang

[effilang]

Here's another one from the UK that just came in. Thank you for sharing!

Johan came all the way from Sweden. Thank you for being so brave and believing in yourself.

 

TESTIMONIAL 32:

 

"When I first read about Xiao Yao Pai I was interested but naturally sceptic. Even though I felt that this was something that really appealed to me and that I felt “drawn” to the school. Although this feeling I wasn’t a 100% sure if I would travel to the initiation. It is after all quite a big step to travel overseas and being initiated in a school.

 

After Xuan being very kind and answering my questions in an excellent manner and explaining in depth about topics related to the school I decided that I owed myself to check it out. So I flew to London. And wow I am so glad I did.

 

Others have described the initiation process so I would like to describe how I feel now 4 days after initiation just after coming home from London. First of all I feel enormous gratitude towards the people who made the initiation event possible. I also feel a really calm in a way I don’t think I ever done, I feel like I’m on the right path again.

 

I know the hard work starts now but that's a good thing now that I have clear direction. During these 4 days I have had several training sessions, the breathing techniques taught are very powerful and I can say beyond any doubt after my sessions that this is a legit divine guidance art. A lot of guided stretching targeting my problem areas around back, neck and arms. I know this might be hard to accept as anyone who hasn’t experienced it but at least I am very happy I took the chance, put down my (even though small) prejudice and tested it out. "

 

Johan T.

DAO YING - NOV 2016 - LONDON | UK

Edited November 9, 2016 by effilang

[SeekerOfHealing]

 

Its so sad when someone cant answer basic questions so shady...

 

 

It's not that he can not but your attitude is just ugly and it's natural that people will get aversion from that behavior which is not nice to other people, being too nice of course can be manipulation but at least try to be sincere with your feelings and intentions. I do not think you wanted to know something from this thread/person - you just wanted to prove your point and superiority of you, your purple golden elixir or sifu. If you want to do that just be sincere with it, bring to the tables the results, efforts, experiences but do not play it like a snake, just direct. Be one with your intention.

 

I do not know why people could bash this school - it's like barking at the wrong tree. The tree which wielding gold apples for many people without discriminating that you are ugly, stupid, smart - from what I understand this is truly spiritual tradition/method/practice that can encompass everybody who is willing to practice and have interests in self cultivation. Stop nagging and just read what he said which is super clear.

 

This is amazing school and I believe those testimonies to be true and yes, yes I know to not believe just come and see but they are sincere - people are getting better and close with life, how you can act negative towards it especially it's not hurting anybody? Your approach is hurt, your emotion are not healed, your mind works against yourself. Understand that the problem is with you and your attitude and experience of bitterness you have you project on this school and thread. We all had this kind of episode in life but learn your lesson and wake up from it, learn to heal your emotions and heart to be more fluffy - your understanding will grow with your heart, those two goes in pair. Just be willing to listen and explore - it's not that damn hard for damn sake.

 

And Walker have many great points and questions to answer I would like to hear that too about how it's different from those spontaneous qigongs.

 

At the same time I need poke some people (and myself too) why do you get things as granted? This person using his time to answer those questions from that I see... pretty long time and I never seen any "THANK YOU" to him.

 

Thank you for answering our questions.

Edited November 9, 2016 by SeekerOfHealing

[SeekerOfHealing]

Just go on from page one, there are many answers and question on the way and thru the forum you have 2-3 topics which are pretty big about experiences and school in general. 

[Jeff]

No thank you.

 

Im going to laugh 10yrs from now when these students have no developed skills because they didnt think to ask or was shunned from asking good questions when they started.

 

Instead of going off what you feel you had best be sure that they are doing right by you that you have a lineage chart a real usable skill and that you are infact baishee.

Maybe start your own thread and describe what powers/skills you and your master have and can demonstrate? Then forum members can directly compare.

[zerostao]

i have several pm regarding this thread, i will briefly lock it while i review and act as i feel appropriate.

it will be back open soon. thanks for understanding.

 

edit>> after reviewing the thread and possibilities; effilang, myself, and dawei decided to split the thread.

this portion will remain here in "Systems and Teachers of"

effi has organized initiation events and is much more well versed in daoist terminology than i am, effi now has the owner's permissions here.

i am in it as my main personal practice, so it makes sense to me to move the original portion of the thread to my PPF.  

it wasnt that i wanted to keep a great system all to myself   in fact i tried to open it up for others.

i always liked the way effi was able to answer questions using specific daoist terminology. 

 

^^

Edited November 10, 2016 by zerostao

[effilang]

By Guide you mean a "non-physical person"? Part of yourself or separate?

 

It is an immortal spirit that guides you along the right direction, helping you refine your 3 bodies, 3 Hun and 7 Po, Yin Shen and Yang Shen into one coalesced self-dependent immortal spirit free from reincarnation.

 

It is akin to Chen Wangting, the founder of Taiji, coming to your house every day to give you private lessons.

Only, our teacher is an Immortal who comes to teach us immortality.

 

So to answer your first question. It is a separate person, but it interacts with you on a subtle level, such that It can seem like part of you at times, but is always separate.

 

And your second; because of it's level of achievement it can be both physical or non-physical and void, both Yin and Yang or Wu.

 

Best wishes.

Xuan Daoji

[effilang]

It's very different for everyone in the way the immortal manifests, as it leans towards refining your constitutional talents. So one might manifest clairaudiance while another clairvoyance or other skills.

 

But also, it is different from conventional Taoism, because in Hou Tian cultivation during Jing accumulation and refinement the useful manifestations and skills of practice are still few. As the Qi fills and is refined other types of Gongfu are acquired and as the Qi refines to Shen more profound connections are made to the spiritual dimension.

 

In Xiao Yao Pai however we are connected to the spiritual dimension at the initial phase in the practice so communication to the heavens is established immediately, in order for the immortal to guide you, while other super-natural talents are refined later .

 

Then the Shen is slowly refined, then the Qi then the Jing. So the route of transmutation is reversed, which is why we can still have active sex lives if we chose to. Although I would imagine stronger Jing will facilitate more rapid transformation of the dense matter.

 

Rather than a Yin-Earth path where we start from the coarse, you could classify our school as a Yang-Heaven method where we start from the fine and move to the coarse to achieve complete transformation, turning the 3 to the 2 and the 2 to the primordial 1.

 

Because of this, we do not have to wait long (days for some and for others weeks, months or years), before they can manifest spiritual skill, such as extra-sensory perception by sound, sight etc.

 

Best.

Xuan Daoji

[flowing hands]

Qi does not refine to shen they are totally different.

Jing is what all living things are born with, it is like our DNA, what is given to us from our ancestors from the very beginning of life. Jing does not replenish itself very easily, but one can help it to strengthen by keeping one's vital fluids in.

 

Qi alters all the time and it pulses at various levels depending on external influences, pathogenics, diet, and exercise etc. 

 

All these things can be cultivated as a whole or individually, but will not lead to Immortality.

[effilang]

Nice to see you again Flowing Hands. I knew you couldn't stay away for too long

Please have a look at the below post if you wish from this thread. I've covered all that before and on many other occasions.

 

The physical dimension in which we live (Taiji) has three energies:

 

Jing: physical matter such as; muscles, bones, tissues, fascia, phlegm, hormones, saliva, cerebrospinal fluids, sperm, sweat, tears, marrow etc.

 

Qi: the subtle energy which flows through our meridians, also our organ energies and emotions.

 

Shen: the complex of the acquired consciousness (the egoic mind and transient identity)

 

These movement and combination of these three energies in different qualities and quantities helps to create all manner of life, but all their movement is limited to Taiji. If you think of a big ball then these post-natal San Bao (three treasures) are inside the ball.

 

In Houtian systems (Post heavenly systems without immortal guidance), the disciple cultivates their awareness and energy to move up through the 3 Dantien. JING > QI > SHEN

 

JING vibrates the slowest, that is why it is most visible and perceptible and palpable eg: you can feel your hands, your your spit, you can see your blood if you cut yourself etc. This is because of the frequency. Just like a hellicopters rotor blade, when its slow, we can see it, but when it begins to move very fast and the frequency increases it looks like it disappears all together. So there are something we can see and some things we can't see, some things our body can feel by itself and others it cant.

 

Qi vibrates much faster. Up till today, scientists still havent developed the equipment to detect Qi or feelings, and yet it is there and we can feel our emotions flowing from one state and into another following basic 5 element theory in TCM.

 

SHEN is the highest vibration in the Taiji dimension (physical dimension of duality).

The mind can be lightning fast, but still it is a Taiji energy.

 

The rules is that all things under Taiji follow the way of Yin and Yang. They ebb and flow, so that which is born must die. This is the basis of physical phenomena in our dimension.

 

If we focus on cultivating the body only, when we die, we cannot take it with us, it will return to the earth and turn into minerals to be absorbed by the soil or eaten by animals. We can make our body insanely strong, just look at any body builder, some can lift up to 1000lbs. Its amazing, and if you compare them to any other human, they will appear super natural, but they also will die.

 

If we cultivate only our physical Qi, we enable conscious control of our subtle energy, we can develop some skills and even use our extra energy to project it from the body to heal others. If a natural persons looks at this, you will appear super natural, some might even call you a magician or a holy one, but when the time comes to die, you cannot take this energy with you, because it is still under Taiji.

 

If we focus on cultivating the mind (the highest vibration in Taiji) and we study hard, go to university, become a specialist, get a masters and a doctorate and accumulate thousands of books worth of knowledge, others might look at how smart and intellectual we are, and we will appear as though we are super naturally smart, but when we die, this mind that we have developed, we also cannot take it with us. Even though through post natal Shen gong you can learn to project your awareness and go and visit distant places with your subtle body, astral travel and so on and so forth, it is still just physical energy or if you prefer TAIJI energy. That is all. It is impossible to take it into the non-physical dimension (WUJI) because it is anchored in the physical body : )

 

Most of what people practice and demonstrate in many schools today are simple Taiji skills.

Yes, from the viewpoint of many people, it can seem truly miraculous, but this energy is impermanent and governed by the dynamic of Yin and Yang and so where it is born it will also die.

 

All these practices are good, but it is not yet spiritual cultivation.

 

So in Houtian Neidan, what is the purpose? We learn to move our awareness and energy from Jing to Qi to Shen, when we consciously enter the SHEN level of cultivation, it means our vibration is beginning to push up against the wall of the ball. It is like a child little chick trying to break the shell to come out into the world.

 

This is actually the level at which pre-heaven, Xian Tian cultivation can begin, only after our consciousness can break outside of Taiji, so you must penetrate that membrane of physicality in order for your awareness to enter Wuji where genuine spirit work begins.

 

In this dimension, it is possible to actual cultivate the eternal soul and the original mind and to begin to unify the 3 Hun and 7 Po into Yang Shen. Neidan is the returning path, so we follow the reverse Ba Gua and unify everything back into one point of oneness.

 

If a person cannot get to this level, then their consciousness is still trapped in Taiji.

When they die, they will reincarnate, like it or not : )

 

First you must penetrate Taiji and exit to enter Wuji, then you awareness must learn to grow and function in Wuji so it can become independent.

 

In all these processes our Fu Fa Shen guides us.

The difference with our school is that we are not Houtian, we are Xiantian, so rather than a human, we follow an immortal that guides us and rather than having to raise our energy from Jing to Qi to Shen first in order that we can begin to communicate with the divine realm and study from the Xian, during the initiation, our Yuan Shen is activated directly and we can establish a connection to Wuji and directly to our school-assigned Fu Fa Shen.

 

The perspective of FFS is such that they can see you on every level. Physicaly, Emotionally, Mentally and Spiritually on a soul level. They know your past and your present and they function beyond space-time. By the time you think of your FFS, he/she is already present : ) - this is because our mind is part of Taiji energy and bound by space and time, while FFS in Wuji is beyond that envelope all together.

 

Whenever FFS begins to refine you, he will always go directly to the root. It's only been a few days since the UK initiation and I'm already getting lots of messages from Dao Yu about how their FFS know exactly what their problem is and prescribing exercises to deal with the issue. One Dao Yu was practicing for around 3 hours with heir FFS yesterday in just one session.

 

Some at the initiation, their FFS was guiding them to perform accupressure on certain points and to flush energy out of the hand. I will show you all pictures and videos after I have post produced everything : )

 

So, yes, FFS works with you on all levels, to refine the post-natal Jing Qi and Shen, but also to refine the pre-natal Spirit, The Soul and the Original Mind. So any condition is ok, FFS can see it and knows how to cure it. To them you are just like a little baby. Even your greatest problem in life is just childsplay to them : )

 

More testimonials are coming in so youll be able to read for yourself soon.

I'll post them here.

 

Sorry for typos, was rushing.

Best wishes. 

Edited November 10, 2016 by effilang

[dawei]

perhaps we can try something more practical if you would honor me with 10 minutes of your time in TDB live chat?

 

Is that offer also open to anyone else ?    If so, meet now in chat ?

[effilang]

OK, yes. We can try. See you there.

[Shad282]

hey, Hope my words and point of view don't sound mean, but it is out of curiosity with a little doubt.

 

I m someone who is more into traditional/core oriented teaching, that does not involve anything but observing the body, and thoughts and allowing things to be as they are and nothing more.

and also, i do come with a scientific background in terms of psychology with focus on how the mind work.

 

Doing my researches in how the mind works and observing the mind on a daily basis and such. We can say that the mind is a very powerful tool and has a lot of depth that we still yet didn't discover and is able to trick our consciousness.

 

The technique that you are preaching about in this thread, on facebook and such, involves spirits, channeling, projections and many other stuffs as i have read so far. Also, i have checked testimonials. it is quite interesting and i would like to try it one day.

 

But my issue with it, is that it involves spirit, deity and such sort of stuff which actually contradicts my understanding of mind, meditation and the traditional school of buddha and tao. 

The thing is, how much aware do you need to be in order to see, feel, project and do those sort things?. because of my understanding of the mind, it is a very powerful tool.

 

I m sure you went through times when meditating, you find yourself in a place that is totally real, or in the middle of an action and then you wake up on yourself dreaming while meditating, or your teacher wakes you up. it happens to all of us. and that is a simple thing of what the mind can do during intense focus and it is a result of mind escaping the present, the now. 

 

my point is, how are you able to verify what you're describing as spirit, projection, channeled spirits, are not some sort of mind escapism but on another level, based on your own belief. knowing that the mind is able to project many stuff, like angels, beings, and make you see stuff that are not real, just to escape what is, as it has been described by the buddha " mind monkey". in other words, how much is your ability to verify that the mind is not interfering with what you are seeing/feeling/sensing and that what you r seeing is not a mind made theming/ illusion to interrupt your awareness and your present moment ?

 

I would like, to use the Virtual reality machines used nowadays, and have been used in many science tests, on how your consciousness no matter how much are aware, can be tricked into believing that what you are seeing is real, and you instantly react to what you see physically, emotionally. example: a person playing a horror game, even tho he is consciously aware that it is not real, he still reacts.

 

which reflects that even tho we acknowledge that it is not real, the mind still believes it is real and so the body (knowing that is not real). So what if we acknowledge something is real and we feel it in my mind and body and does that make it real? in other words, is there an objective way for an outsider to verify it is real, without having to believe consciously and unconsciously?

 

Other, example the placebo pill that is given to someone who think he is sick, or sometimes is sick, and the person heals just because he believes that what he took heals him.... can't it be similar to someone believing light is healing him or a spirit or someone sending healing?

 

Thank you for your time

Edited November 10, 2016 by Shad282

[grassmountiansage]

Maybe start your own thread and describe what powers/skills you and your master have and can demonstrate? Then forum members can directly compare.

 

Im not that invested in it.

 

Here's my thing I asked basic questions on cultivation like experience of the teacher healing mco and so forth.

 

They could have just answered it and won me over they didnt or they chose not too.

 

Not sure why exactly would have been much simpler to answer basic questions which isnt an insult or against the rules.

 

Here's my thing why would I or any experience practitioner in their art leave their art and do this practice without having some things answered first.

 

I shouldnt have to meet you and so forth to get a simple question on the mco in relation to your art answered for that is literally the whole point of asking questions in the first place is to see if this is something worthwhile or not.

[effilang]

Hi everyone. I'd like to share a video of me practicing Shen Gong in Xian Tian Dao Yin Shu under the guidance of my Hu Fa Shen.

 

Because I've added a track over you can't actually hear my exhales and inhales, but HFS was also in control of my breath during this session, so it was a combination of Shen Gong and Qigong.

 

In XTDYS, we have three basic practices;

Shen Gong (Guided Movements such as in the video)

- Here HFS moves our body and we just follow.

 

Qi Gong (Breath and Subtle energy work)

- Here HFS directly controls the breath and moves the Qi in the body where necessary for our cultivation.

 

Jing Zuo

- Here HFS guides our awareness into Wuji.

 

I made this video a year ago. I don't move like this anymore, as a matter of fact, my movements in Shen Gong had already stopped and I had progressed to guided Qigong at this point, so I specifically asked HFS for something flashy for this video haha, just because I was going to share it with people.

 

The sessions lasted longer than I expected and by the time I was done I was sweating and was sore for the next two days.

 

Hope it gives you some idea of what Xian Tian Dao Yin Shu can look like, but please bear in mind everybody's movements will relate to their condition and requirements.

 

At this point in time, 90% of my practice consists of guided Jing Zuo and around 10% Qigong.

 

HFS starts to move me around 1:20

 

Best wishes.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFF6ksJ8-Bw

Edited November 11, 2016 by effilang

[SeekerOfHealing]

I have the same moves when I do my practice of esoteric buddhism. I think we practice the same thing I once been initiated by vietnam women into esoteric buddhism after reciting the "password" invisible force started moving me in the same positions I laughed about it because I didn't know them or even think of them, some of them are more like qigong some of them more like kung fu, some even was the same you showing on the movie. I didn't feel any physical results of this practice really like those in testimony but often I feel hot flashesh, sweating and weird energy movements which are different then in qigong. I still newbie in this practice so maybe that's why. Is same story really as Xiao Yao Pai I was said too after initiation you have golden aura, your luck is better and health and stuff like this so I leave it here to people that they can compare those two tradition. Initiation is generally free (if you do self initiation) but I did it with vietnam women (which was also free)

 

http://vutruhuyenbi.com/forum/download/The-Quintessence-of-Secret-Esoteric-Buddhism-Revised-Edition-2008.pdf

 

Description seems the same as Xiao Yao Pai school... so I guess it's the same. I will ask if they are the same lineages but one taoist and one buddhism but same practice?

 

(The initiation is in "Special Chapter" and you have the same that your spiritual guide which I guess is just another name for FFS can teach you qigongs, kung fu or just develop your talents.)

Edited November 11, 2016 by SeekerOfHealing

[Mudfoot]

Are these only spontaneous movements or do you get some knowledge about their meaning. For example, the book linked above mentions the five elements. When you are examining them, do you get an exercise that you then return to by yourself, or is all practice guided and different?

[effilang]

Hey guys. I'd like to share an update on Johans training from Testimonial 32, which you can find find few pages back.

"Almost a week has now passed since initiation and I’d like to take to opportunity to share a bit more about my training with my HFS/FFS.

One of the reasons I started to train daoist martial arts which later lead me onto the path of XYP was my bad health, after starting taiji and bagua I soon realized how extremly tense I was and how extremly bad alignments I had, even though I worked on them I had little progress (I guess I did it wrong or not enough time). My training with FFS has this first week focused on building flexibility in my back, shoulders, neck, hands, leg and feet.

After barely a week of training the difference is huge. I mean huge as in it surprises me how I could have progress this much. I have done stretching in positions I couldn’t even imagine in my mind before starting this.

I am so grateful to be able to experience this and adding to my testimonial to hope be able to contribute to more people get to do it as well. All best. JT"

Edited November 11, 2016 by effilang

[effilang]

I will try to answer all your questions over the weekend guys, sorry for the delays, but I have around 30 in queue and have to prioritize them. Some times I won't get to a person for a few months, so don't think I'm ignoring you. I take notes, but I also have my personal life to live and enjoy!

grassmountainsage, I am still looking forward to meeting you and your Sifu and hope you can give me some feedback on his investigation as you mentioned you were going to ask for us to be checked on.

Since you've come back on the thread with a far more respectable demeanor, I'll try to make some time to answer your initial questions as they relate to our tradition and practice of Spiritual Daoism.

Please everyone know that I am not here as your servant and I reserve the right to select what information I share and whom I share it with at all times and I don't owe anything to anyone, but I am here to help those that I feel are genuine. I think we can learn far much more from each other by being respectful than we can through offensive behavior.

Often, denying someone what they demand is a good way to gauge the quality of their character by their reaction.

The truth is that not everyone makes it to the initiation.
Some people we categorically reject, others we postpone anywhere from 3 to 5 years.

So please don't look at us as a public service. We have our criteria and process of selection.
Sometimes it is obvious, sometimes not so obvious...

Best wishes : )

Edited November 11, 2016 by effilang

[flowing hands]

Hi Effilang

 

Let me try and be really constructive about your video and helpful again to show you what you are doing.

 

A nice video, lovely music, your body movements are from contemporary dance and you have the 'attitude' of your hands of that performance art, combined with a lot of the movements known to the Shaolin school. Remember Tai Sung Lo Jun is of the Daoist school so he will use Daoist hand forms and certainly not the ones you are using in the video. If you were my student I could make you into a good martial artist, you have good body control, although you sit to one side because your legs are not in a full lotus.

 

But this is certainly not Shen Gong in any form one could imagine, it is more linked to Qigong if I was pushed to describe its actual effect it was having. The focus in what you are doing is completely wrong. 

 

To be honest having learnt 13 different styles of Wu shu and many qi gong forms I could very easily make up all sorts of movements either sitting or standing that would suit a qi gong purpose and effect and no one would be the wiser that I had made them up. Remember the hand forms you are using are from Shaolin, all my arts apart from one come from Daoists. The one art that I learnt from the Shaolin school did not have this hand form that is so depicted in the Kung Fu movies that one can watch and you have used in your video.

 

I was taught Shen Gong by Chi Tien Da Shen 30 years ago and have practiced through the various stages of this form of cultivation. The very beginners level starts at meditation style level and is the complete opposite to what you are doing. It moves on and then goes to standing postures only with lots of variations according to the bodies ability to absorb energy. A long and lengthy process, which involves changing the cellular structure of the entire body. This has to be done under strict supervision.

 

I don't want to reveal any more about real Shen Gong, but it is the complete opposite to what you are doing. You may of course draw your own conclusions from this, but I am genuinely trying to help you and I am concerned. No Immortal would teach you this and pass it off as Shen Gong, because it is not. Li Erh would not use the hand forms that you are using they are the wrong school and are pointless in Shen gong, but are frequently seen in the Shaolin school of martial art in the movies.

 

I am sorry Effilang but I think you are being deceived.