Learning from Immortals

[opendao]

I do not know if I can exact share personal experiences of those students and results and there is many reasons for that. As a trust, I would not like to those people to portray me as person who brags about things, secondly I can say whatever I like and the only thing you have to either believe me or disbelief me which also have no any value to the true understanding of those things. The best is to meet those people personally and then pass the judgement. and yes wu liu pai have very specific way till you need pass to go into higher teachings. Those daogongs and shengongs are like cleaning the temple and washing the windows, at first you do not feel or do not see any value of that as we are not living in traditional chinese world but western materialistic "quick everything" world so we do not understand meaning why we should do that - like in my school I often questioned why I need this stupid math or this and that? Only if you mature enough to understand those things they started to have meaning. So if you would like to know and I guess you know Chinese and seem more knowledgeable then I'm you should have no problem to get into contact with such students and masters of lineages (travel to white cloud temple). They are very approachable if you have right attitude and respect towards them but forget about learning methods. I waited 3 months before learning two basic ming-xing methods from long men pai with many talks and stuff like this before being accepted to small things or to know a little more. Many people want to learn those methods but they go on, brag how great they are and look down on other people and teachers. In the book "At the left hand of the god" which is just about yogic/hindu cultivation you have perfect example of this when the guy learned him rare methods of vajroli and then he would just puff gone, not giving credits, use people and their money etc. Many people think "Oh i would do that" but when you started getting into knowledge and litter power here and there you can easily switch sides without regrets without strong foundation. That why most schools cultivate compassion, respect and heart matters first as the "feeling" of goodness towards people and ourselves is needed feeling which fills up the place for egoistic need of power and dominate over others for feeling of fulfillment. Sorry if that sounds as missing sharing the results of those people but I'm not feeling right doing it on public forum - especially if it's not that hard to reach out to those people in those days.

 

very well put together. Obviously traditional Chinese approach is different from western, esp approach in united states. And as I told before it proved its efficiency. Let's don't forget that in the west there was alchemy, "european alchemy", and where it is now? So for all students we clearly state: real alchemy is a long process, a lot of challenges on the way, don't expect to get it fast and so on. But people tend to skip this part, thinking they are special, talented or they have a lot of quick alternatives... Human nature, it is so.

[Taoist Texts]

 And you don't know his previous relationships with Daode Centre. 

 

well relationship is a big word. It was more of a one-night stand, when she started asking for more money i left.

[zerostao]

 

You cannot see it, because you don't know who is this guy hiding behind that misleading nickname. And you don't know his previous relationships with Daode Centre. Don't take it serious, for him it's just a foolish endless game without any sense. Bunch of personal emotions out of senile confused heart.

 

seems like you are resorting to one of your old tactics, to insult  members here and do it dismissively as you have done numerous times since your arrival on this forum. another tactic you use frequently is to say that some member said things that they never said, you use this tactic to take the conversation to where you want it to go. these tactics of yours, pushing a false narrative by posting someone said things they never did and dismissive insults to members here is certainly not in good faith. in fact it is obviously an act of bad faith. 

when you first arrived on this forum you immediately began trolling attacks against vitali, i remember as i was a mod then. at the time there was a lot of reorganizing of the forum and somehow you slipped through the cracks and got placed on the back burner. well your behavior here has not improved. i have received pm from other members that tried out the school that you constantly promote here. not one gave it a favorable review, but i digress. that isnt the issue, your behavior on this board is.

the issue from my pov is your dismissive insulting attitude, i can see how another member on this thread brought up virtue, 

looking back my one regret as a mod here was not banning you a few years ago. you have a pattern of insulting remarks here that spans years. 

[Aetherous]

I've called for you to be banned, opendao. You don't have my permission to post private emails in a public forum.

[effilang]

I've called for you to be banned, opendao. You don't have my permission to post private emails in a public forum.

 

..............................

[opendao]

I've called for you to be banned, opendao. You don't have my permission to post private emails in a public forum.

 

I also don't like what you do, but you have a freedom to say what you say.

I removed that part for now just in respect of who you used to be.

[Aetherous]

first of all, we never told that "all other schools are false" and "one's health can only be improved with this one Russian school's teachings". So it's just statements out of nothing. 

 

-I'm summarizing your posts on this forum, and don't have the time to point out a specific one where you say these types of things. Not directly quoting you, but paraphrasing. I would say that most forum members can agree with your attitude here. In the past I dismissed it, due to wanting to learn and giving you the benefit of the doubt. No more.

 

Second, the school is legit and students, who didn't fail initial challenges, did get very good results in improving their health, so out of few dozens we had only 2 people left due inability to learn (health issues, not because of our practice, but because of their previous practices or lack of healthy life style). Few people stopped for various reasons, including doubts, but then decided to resume.

 

Obviously you failed to understand some basic things and failed to get results from the practice. That's what I'm telling about.

 

-Actually I understood everything just fine, didn't once "fail", actually "passed" twice, and chose to leave because of a preference for better teachings.

 

I will be the first to admit, lack of healthy lifestyle might have caused my undesired results with your school. However, I was never taught about healthy lifestyle from the school, so...

 

Even the simple fact that Daogong needs 2-3 years to master.

 

-Okay, that's clear...but I was first told it would take one month to pass on to the next level (while continuing daogong), and it took a few months. This is actually the first time I'm hearing that daogong takes up to 3 years to master...

 

That's why its teaching slowly online, however in the beginning we tried as in regular groups - results were very poor from our standard. We're very keen on achieving the initial balance with this practice first, based on our teaching experience. 

 

-I stated my experience of the teaching in my last post. Being someone with a functioning intuition, I disagree that the results were too poor to progress quicker.

 

As I told you lied about "false advertising". Now you're lying about reasons of leaving. This from your email, in Sep 2015, when you decided to leave:

 

"I've found the teacher Alexey to be a very understanding person. What I learned of the daogong practice in the 2 Skype sessions I attended was very clearly taught (telling what the method does, what we're supposed to feel from that method, etc)...however I dropped out of that program due to needing to spend more time on studying in college, and other spiritual practices. The quality of the instruction was very great though. I'm currently thinking about starting again with learning the Yu Xian Pai methods, which are my main interest."

 

-I'm not lying. This email was written once I knew some of daogong, and hadn't yet learned shengong. I then rejoined the skype lessons, spent more time on daogong, then learned the shengong form, at which point health issues got bad. I stand behind my words in this email that I wrote...it was taught clearly, with what is supposed to happen and what to feel. I wrote it while being excited about learning something potentially great.

 

Obviously you're lying now about health issues here on forum, because you have a reason,

 

-You assert that I'm a liar, that your school is legitimate while others are not...I assert that when you point your finger there are three pointing back at you. My reason for responding is your unacceptable attitude...unlike you, I'm not selling anything or representing any school.

 

while in the email you told the truth, because you had no reasons to lie. Shame? Ethics? Truth? No, Aetherous has no interest it that. Next time you're confused or don't understand something: ask and don't disgrace your name by false statements without any support.

 

-The only one attempting to disgrace my name here is you. I have nothing to ask you.

[opendao]

seems like you are resorting to one of your old tactics, to insult  members here and do it dismissively as you have done numerous times since your arrival on this forum. another tactic you use frequently is to say that some member said things that they never said, you use this tactic to take the conversation to where you want it to go. these tactics of yours, pushing a false narrative by posting someone said things they never did 

 

There are no proves, and you know that. In general, I carefully weight words before putting them here or elsewhere. If I told something you don't like - argument. Last time you couldn't, because it's impossible to map XYP's theory to Daoist classics. But I had no any intention to insult you or anybody personal. And I respect people who stopped spreading false views, as you did. However, I don't like false schools like Vitalii's zhen dao, they brainwash people and it's obvious. You have an ability to see it and think critical, so it looks like you just have personal offences which I tend to apologise, you were a good man on a wrong side of things.

[Aetherous]

I also don't like what you do, but you have a freedom to say what you say.

I removed that part for now just in respect of who you used to be.

 

For now? You better step down, and not post any more private emails here...regardless of how the person makes you feel.

[opendao]

 

-You assert that I'm a liar, that your school is legitimate while others are not...I assert that when you point your finger there are three pointing back at you. My reason for responding is your unacceptable attitude...unlike you, I'm not selling anything or representing any school.

 

 

So basically just emotions and willingness to teach? No probs then, but it doesn't make your words valid anyhow.

 

Last question: did you inform anyone about your health issues and concerns?

[dawei]

As I told you lied about "false advertising". Now you're lying about reasons of leaving. This from your email, in Sep 2015, when you decided to leave:

 

[personal email removed by request of Aetherous, however I''ll post it if he won't applogize for misleading statements he made]

 

~~~ ADMIN NOTICE ~~~

 

Please do not post another person's private correspondence.  thanks in advance and thanks for removing it

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[opendao]

well relationship is a big word. It was more of a one-night stand, when she started asking for more money i left.

 

your humour is so recognisable, dear arhont.

[Taoist Texts]

 

senile confused heart.

 

 

[zerostao]

There are no proves, and you know that. In general, I carefully weight words before putting them here or elsewhere. If I told something you don't like - argument. Last time you couldn't, because it's impossible to map XYP's theory to Daoist classics. But I had no any intention to insult you or anybody personal. And I respect people who stopped spreading false views, as you did. However, I don't like false schools like Vitalii's zhen dao, they brainwash people and it's obvious. You have an ability to see it and think critical, so it looks like you just have personal offences which I tend to apologise, you were a good man on a wrong side of things.

it is true that i have no inclination to go back and dig thru old posts to prove my point. if you remember our last exchange of messages, it was the same thing; i watched you insult a new member here (she no longer posts here and i cant say that you ran her off the board) i dont follow your posts but for some reason when i do, either by unlikely coincidence or whatever, i watch you insult members here and i will always speak up about that. otherwise i leave you alone. it isnt that i am defending vitali's school, i have no experience with it. i dont like seeing schools or members attacked and insulted is what i am trying to get across to you. anyways i said my piece fwiw, take it or leave it

[opendao]

it is true that i have no inclination to go back and dig thru old posts to prove my point. if you remember our last exchange of messages, it was the same thing; i watched you insult a new member here (she no longer posts here and i cant say that you ran her off the board) i dont follow your posts but for some reason when i do, either by unlikely coincidence or whatever, i watch you insult members here and i will always speak up about that. otherwise i leave you alone. it isnt that i am defending vitali's school, i have no experience with it. i dont like seeing schools or members attacked and insulted is what i am trying to get across to you. anyways i said my piece fwiw, take it or leave it

 

Thanks not to hide now as in previous time.

 

I understand what you're talking about but you really didn't follow what that lady wrote (and she disappeared about a few months after that conversation, showing her real intentions, you need to figure it out first before making any conclusions and accusing me personally). So it seems you jump in without really understanding the context.

 

Same as your friend Aetherous: "It demonstrates a lack of virtue to disparage other traditions."

Then he started to insult me and the school I'm learning in. But in my article about Learning from Immortals there is not a single word about "other traditions". Moreover, no words about Wu-Liu Pai, so the word "other" has no any sense... And no any comparison or even hidden thoughts that "our school is unique"... However he can insult and tell that I have no virtue, salesman, doing "sleazy marketing", do "false advertising" etc without even bothering to prove. And you zerotao did like it...

 

Also, I heard many times some obvious insults to me personally just because I told some things that are against somebody's worldview or theories they keen on (like in the beginning, various qigong vs alchemy threads, GrandmasterP etc), and after every single post now we can see an evident trolling from Taoist Texts ("marketing meme" at least).

 

So if you really against insulting, trolling and want to play a role of a police officer here, then maybe it has sense to figure out what's happening first... 

 

I see there is a lot of confusion about Wu-Liu Pai or me personally, that people didn't want to discuss for years. That's why I'm answering all that. But maybe you guys are tired and on the Daoist forum there is a small chance to talk about Daoism and the questions raised in the article?

 

Instead of teaching me what to do, just do it by yourself, it'll be the best example for many, including myself. Hope for understanding. Cheers.

[Aetherous]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslighting

 

Same as your friend Aetherous: "It demonstrates a lack of virtue to disparage other traditions."

Then he started to insult me and the school I'm learning in.

 

 

I should've ended that sentence with  "...if you represent a certain tradition" for clarity's sake, but I thought that was implicit when I said "other".

Edited November 14, 2016 by Aetherous

[zerostao]

Thanks not to hide now as in previous time.

 

i am probably one of the more active members here , by my daily attendance. so no reason to hide, i just didnt feel like arguing with you further on that. and i dont now either,  then like now my only objective is to get your attention on to your use of insults here and for you to correct that

 

I understand what you're talking about but you really didn't follow what that lady wrote (and she disappeared about a few months after that conversation, showing her real intentions, you need to figure it out first before making any conclusions and accusing me personally). So it seems you jump in without really understanding the context.

 

all of that is subjective as just about everything on this board is. so it doesn't matter, there is never a good reason to resort to direct insults

 

Same as your friend Aetherous: "It demonstrates a lack of virtue to disparage other traditions."

Then he started to insult me and the school I'm learning in. But in my article about Learning from Immortals there is not a single word about "other traditions". Moreover, no words about Wu-Liu Pai, so the word "other" has no any sense... And no any comparison or even hidden thoughts that "our school is unique"... However he can insult and tell that I have no virtue, salesman, doing "sleazy marketing", do "false advertising" etc without even bothering to prove. And you zerotao did like it...

 

 member Aetherous is one of the longest attending that we have here and i suspect that he like me was trying to get your attention, as you seem to read past many other members posts and you have a tendency to turn aggressive. i liked that he spoke up,, it was not a jab from me towards you. i have learned to count to ten before i get reactive. however when i see anyone insulting another i understand something has already turned bad somewhere. my reaction tends to be towards the aggressive one especially if they are throwing open insults. so yes, instead of playing police or calling police i responded directly to you opendao and let you account for your actions

 

 

Also, I heard many times some obvious insults to me personally just because I told some things that are against somebody's worldview or theories they keen on (like in the beginning, various qigong vs alchemy threads, GrandmasterP etc), and after every single post now we can see an evident trolling from Taoist Texts ("marketing meme" at least).

 

if you are insulted then you should file report of the post and bring it to staff attention. do not flare up some flame war

 

So if you really against insulting, trolling and want to play a role of a police officer here, then maybe it has sense to figure out what's happening first... 

 

tbh i dont mind the trolls but when one just steamrolls over thread after thread trying to squash the rest of the conversation, naw cant say i care for that

 

I see there is a lot of confusion about Wu-Liu Pai or me personally, that people didn't want to discuss for years. That's why I'm answering all that. But maybe you guys are tired and on the Daoist forum there is a small chance to talk about Daoism and the questions raised in the article?

 

 

maintain a calm awareness while you do it, how about that? 

 

Instead of teaching me what to do, just do it by yourself, it'll be the best example for many, including myself. Hope for understanding. Cheers.

 

carry on professor, expect questions in return, i see that you ask all kinds of questions yourself, its all good. do you answer effi's questions?

 

cheers

 

cheers! and i will give you last word here, it is your thread after all and i certainly dont want to bust it all to hell. thanks for trying to clear some of this up. 

everyone can listen a little more i reckon. 

[liminal_luke]

The demonstrable results that mean the most to me...an open and kind attitude and a peaceful accepting nature, as evidenced by the tendency to refrain from criticism and belittling others and their paths.

 

I'm happy to jump right into the fight myself -- but then again I`m not very advanced.

[Aetherous]

I'm happy to jump right into the fight myself -- but then again I`m not very advanced.

Same here, as you can tell.

[opendao]

The demonstrable results that mean the most to me...an open and kind attitude and a peaceful accepting nature, as evidenced by the tendency to refrain from criticism and belittling others and their paths.

 

then Huang Di, Lao Zi, Zhang Boduan and many other high level Teachers of Dao don't have any demonstrable results.

[munky]

.

Edited August 23, 2023 by munky

[opendao]

if you want us to flock to your school you'll need to demonstrate some results. youtube vid would b nice. Maybe of your school's master i wanna see some cool golden auras and yang shen powers. pls dont edit the video with special efx either because it will just look bad on your part.

 

I don't want you to flock in any school. 

 

If you're looking for youtube video, then some people here released a few. I haven't found any immortals on them, but maybe you'll have more luck.

[opendao]

I should've ended that sentence with  "...if you represent a certain tradition" for clarity's sake, but I thought that was implicit when I said "other".

 

Obviously in the article there is no Tradition being disparaged. As well as here on the forum previously. Tradition has very precise definition which includes texts, lineage, teachers, sacred places, methods, results and some other important things.

 

People talking with walls and imaginary ghosts don't represent any Traditions at all.

 

You're fighting with imaginary windmills.

[thelerner]

If you've stated your opinions clearly, and I think you have.  Why don't you'all give this thread a break and start one on a more focused subject?

[opendao]

If you've stated your opinions clearly, and I think you have.  Why don't you'all give this thread a break and start one on a more focused subject?

 

not sure why, context is important and the questions people have were created by the article in the first message.

 

If Aetherous wants he can move his posts into Wuliupai thread or any other place (garbage bin?), because they really have no relation to the article itself.

 

For results I'm planning some other text, thinking now how not to step on somebody's callosity...