Learning from Immortals

[Zhongyongdaoist]

not sure why, context is important and the questions people have were created by the article in the first message.

 

If Aetherous wants he can move his posts into Wuliupai thread or any other place (garbage bin?), because they really have no relation to the article itself.

 

For results I'm planning some other text, thinking now how not to step on somebody's callosity...

 

Aetherous cannot move his posts by himself, he would have to ask a mod to help him do it and mods like me are notoriously lazy and loath to move a couple of posts around, however, this is an "Owner's Permissions" area of Dao Bums and you, opendao, as the person who started this thread "own it", if you already have owners permission, you have both the right and power to hide any post that you do not want to appear in this thread, if you do not have Owner's Permissions yet, you can apply for them by following this link:

 

Apply for Owner's Permissions Here

 

Read the first two posts on the conditions, rights and responsibilities of Owner's Permissions and if you don't find the burden of responsibility to much, just go to the end of the thread and ask for them, and they will be yours.  I have already checked, you meet the requirements for minimum time of membership in Dao Bums, and also minimum number of posts, I can't remember if there is anything else, but we notoriously lazy mods would prefer that you use owner's Permissions freely and be a bit more polite in your responses.  That would work for us, I hope that it works for you.

 

Finally this is not an official mod notice, but just a friendly note from a long time Dao Bum who has found your posts interesting and informative.

 

Good luck and good posting,

 

ZYD

 

 

 

 

 

Edit: Changed an "and" that was just a means of confusion to and "end" that justified this edit.

[Kodoninja]

I'm not sure if you already said it before, but what are the demonstrable results in your school that you speak of?

Ish, I can attest to the demonstrable results of the school. I was very sick and close to death, hospitalized twice and suffered from a complete body shutdown the 2nd time I was in the hospital. After I began Daogong, within the first week of training my symptoms improved. Every so often I have a bad day, but now I am able to function like a completely normal person and I have only been training for a little over 1 year. No other system has been able to do that for me, not SFQ, not Vajrasattva Qigong, not Yang Style Taiji and not even Buddhist Medical Qigong that I learned from a temple. There is definitely something within this tradition that sets it apart from anything else. Whereas 90% of modern qigong is imbalanced in some way and can only help certain people, Daogong (which is level -1) can benefit anyone. It can benefit anyone because it is totally balanced in all aspects.

[Wells]

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Edited March 2, 2017 by Wells

[munky]

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Edited August 23, 2023 by munky

[SeekerOfHealing]

You guys can try here wu liu pai daogong and try to experience results by yourself.

 

[Antares]

You guys can try here wu liu pai daogong and try to experience results by yourself.

 

 

Well, Daogong is actually the set of exercises which is comprised of a few different exercices taken out from traditional wushu styles such as xingyiquan and iquan. This is NOT from Wuliupai at all but is used in Russian branch of Wuliupai as one out of the heart balancing methods. Also I want to say that its benefits is very subtle and they are not necessarily can be very obvious in the very beginning. The main idea behind it (as I believe) is to gain stabillity of the heart and to get some sensitivity of Qi. To all those guys who want quick results I can say that our Teacher Dmitry Artemyev had to practise initial method for 6 years when he arrived to China and it turned out that it was not WuLiuPai method. It was just a checking of his real intention and abillity to practise. Skype sessions might be very good but I believe it is always better to practise in person because there is a very important issue which makes all the difference and it relates to Alchemy and traditional approach itself. This difference is the capstone of all real traditional methods. I think that Opendao wanted to point this out but as I can see not many people can even grasp this idea. In general this is very uniqe case that real Neidan tradition went out of China. Probably one might arguing here that I want to promote or sell anything here but I will disagree then with this person. I don't sell anything and not even thinking about this. As for WuLiuPai I can say that this is very uniqe school and I doubt that anything else of this sort will go out of China soon. Normally chinese daosits do not accept foreingers and that D. Artemyev was accepted as a student was a case of Destiny. 

Edited December 4, 2016 by Antares

[Antares]

Looking back at my paypal receipts, it was actually a number of months that I trained with these guys. 2-3/2015, 6/15, then 9-11/2015. This salesman here said I "failed"...in actuality, I passed (there were actually "tests" to enter the yuxianpai training), but withdrew due to having poor results both from daogong and especially shengong.

 

The sales tactic during the training was definitely one of trying to keep getting monthly payments. Daogong training was supposed to take one month at most, but it was drawn out 2-3 months...this was entirely due to the teachers giving out further practices slowly, or teaching slowly (feeling the need to refine basic practices), and not due to any student's inability to learn or perform well enough. I reluctantly continued past one month, despite the false advertising...then when negative results came on more strongly, withdrew.

 

 

The stick in this picture is the admonition that all other schools are false, that one's health can only be improved with this one Russian school's teachings, etc...the carrot just out of reach are the promised results (which no one is even clear about).

 

Just want to comment this post. Out of my experience one month of mastering Daogong is not enough. The progress depends on few factors such as: 

 

- sincerity of a student

- his/her lifestyle and habbits 

- ability to learn and achieve goals

- his/her destiny (karma)

- stability of practising

- Teacher (not every teacher is right for a certain student)

- personal vices of a student

 

What I personally like in Daogong that it gives very smoothing effect on my mind and energy, and I can really experience difference in the state of it before and after practising it. Best results can be achieved in a group classes. 

 

As for money issue... Ha ha... You probably think that somebody should spend his yuan qi for free? That's the difference between Daogong and other qigong methods. Daogong has alchemical core and that why it is so uniqe.

 

It is impossible to learn from Immortals not having right physical Teacher and right traditional method. Then we need to realize what transmission is. It never was free even in China. Students had to work for their  masters not even having a hope to receive method.  

[Aetherous]

(not every teacher is right for a certain student)

 

We could leave it at that.

 

...I'll not post in here anymore, due to having no desire to continue the discussion.

Edited December 4, 2016 by Aetherous

[SeekerOfHealing]

"It is impossible to learn from Immortals not having right physical Teacher and right traditional method"

 

From what I know Artemyev accepts learning from immortals that's why it's weird for me you guys speaking such things against knowledge of your teacher. 

[Antares]

 

 

I've found other methods to be much more effective...wasn't particularly fond of the Daogong result.

 

Right. As I said Daogong is best when practising in a group. But I heard that even Skype classes do give some good results to some people. Honestly I am critical about Skype sessions. I think (it is my personal believe) it is given in order to give a glimpse of the WuLiuPai system. But it is good balancing system for itself. In order to have benefits out of it one must do it RIGHT. Of course there might be other good balancing systems. But the next question is what other system can give you further? Do not forget that this is Daoist thread and we consider Daoists approaches here (not Buddist ones or anything else). To answer this question we need to really realize the difference between WuLiuPai and other methods. Just as an example, if you visit "Potent systems" thread then you can see how easily people changing systems and teachers. Why is that? I know the answer. There is no preheaven work at all and that systems can not give great results just by definition.

 

 

 

It's really just another type of qigong...not unique, and it's not like other popular forms don't have an "alchemical core". That idea is marketing hype.

 

 Wrong statement.  But I agree that other forms can give similar results. But at the eand of it what will be next step in other system? Remember that every qigong waste yuan qi even if it gives some unussual results. 

 

 

 

I advise other promoters of this Russian school to not start conversations with me about it. I'm obviously not a fan, so is there really a point in continuing?

 

 

 I am not writing it to you. Alchemy is not for everyone so feel free to walk on the market....   

[Antares]

"It is impossible to learn from Immortals not having right physical Teacher and right traditional method"

 

From what I know Artemyev accepts learning from immortals that's why it's weird for me you guys speaking such things against knowledge of your teacher. 

 

I do not remember when he said this. May be he said that on the certain stage it is possible but in the beginning everyone needs to find true Teacher.

 

http://www.all-dao.com/difference-qigong-alchemy.html

Xuanzhenzi asked: "It is that for the first time we join the Secret Teaching and don’t yet understand very much the difference between qigong and Taoist alchemy and I ask the Teacher to tell me and other followers about it."

The Teacher of Single Yang said: "From the ancient time till the present day at Taoist alchemy a transmission of Teacher has always been, (what is called) an oral admonition and heart-to-heart transmission. And it was very strictly closed and secret. In the process of reaching perfection a strict detailed sequence exists (steps of perfection) and if you advance at the practice step by step in accordance with the oral admonition of the true Teacher, then after mastering each stage the true sign of (successful mastery of this stage) will always manifest.

[zerostao]

In other words:

The Wuliupai level 1 preliminary practice to their taoist alchemy main training delivers better results by far

than practically every chi main training system for health discussed on thedaobums!

 

Conclusion:

Obviously opendao's claims how great and special Wuliupai is

are simply the truth.

you are with this school? how many years experience? what results have you achieved?

thanks for sharing

[Taoist Texts]

  To all those guys who want quick results I can say that our Teacher Dmitry Artemyev had to practise initial method for 6 years when he arrived to China and it turned out that it was not WuLiuPai method. It was just a checking of his real intention and abillity to practise. 

 

You seem to be saying that his teachers lied to him about what they were teaching him.

Falsely made  him to believe that it was a wulu method and then after 6 years said woops, it was not.

So they lied to him for 6 years, day in and day out, while he was paying them for something that it was not.

Is that what happened?

Yes or no please.

[opendao]

You seem to be saying that his teachers lied to him about what they were teaching him.

Falsely made  him to believe that it was a wulu method and then after 6 years said woops, it was not.

So they lied to him for 6 years, day in and day out, while he was paying them for something that it was not.

Is that what happened?

Yes or no please.

 

no

[opendao]

"It is impossible to learn from Immortals not having right physical Teacher and right traditional method"

 

From what I know Artemyev accepts learning from immortals that's why it's weird for me you guys speaking such things against knowledge of your teacher. 

 

accepts, but Antares is right.

 

Also Dmitry Artemyev has disclosed some signs happening after encountering xian-immortals. So it's clear that most of the stories about such events are fake.

[Wells]

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Edited March 2, 2017 by Wells

[opendao]

In other words:

The Wuliupai level 1 preliminary practice to their taoist alchemy main training delivers better results by far

than practically every chi main training system for health discussed on thedaobums!

 

Conclusion:

Obviously opendao's claims how great and special Wuliupai is

are simply the truth.

 

The problem why popular western qigong systems don't really work for health is because ancient knowledge about human body was lost. In the alchemy it was preserved, that's why Daogong, which was created based on the alchemy principles, works more efficiently.

 

We have many stories like KodoNinja shared... Again, we don't claim that there is nothing else comparable to Daogong, but it has some unique features hard to find nowadays. Personally, I'm a big fan of this method, it gave me a lot for the alchemy practice and transformation, and I see now how it changes other students in the world.

 

However, I see very often same mistakes when people having some experience in modern qigong or yoga start doing daogong with old habits, mind work, body alignment and so on. Moreover, they continue to combine old methods and Daogong, sometimes even without mentioning it...

 

I think, there is no way to learn anything new by just repeating old habits. It has sense to learn it as it is the only method you know. Then it'll open its secrets and real potential.

[Taoist Texts]

no

 

The question was not addressed to you but since you took upon yourself to speak  Antares.... Would you kindly explain what  he meant by "turned out"? Did your leader misunderstood his teacher for 6 years or what?

 

 To all those guys who want quick results I can say that our Teacher Dmitry Artemyev had to practise initial method for 6 years when he arrived to China and it turned out that it was not WuLiuPai method. It was just a checking of his real intention and abillity to practise.

[opendao]

 

The question was not addressed to you but since you took upon yourself to speak  Antares.... Would you kindly explain what  he meant by "turned out"? Did your leader misunderstood his teacher for 6 years or what?

 

 

or what. He understood his Teacher very well and practised diligently for 6 years to successfully get the results.

[Antares]

 

 

Did your leader misunderstood his teacher for 6 years or what?

 

Chinese Teachers do test students prior to giving them authentic method. This is not like in the West people can buy something on the internet just by clicking "place into the basket" button....  I did not even mention how long our teacher had been looking for the authentic Teacher meeting many fake teachers. But westerners think if they pay money they will automatically buy results... So ridiculous 

Edited December 4, 2016 by Antares

[Mudfoot]

I think that a student that belives him/herself to study the methods of one school would be rightfully disappointed when learning they have spent time and money on something else.

 

Why not play with open cards?

 

"You are the new dude, and you are going to stand in Ma Bu until I belive you have your heart in this."

[SeekerOfHealing]

Chinese Teachers do test students prior to giving them authentic method. This is not like in the West people can buy something on the internet just by clicking "place into the basket" button....  I did not even mention how long our teacher had been looking for the authentic Teacher meeting many fake teachers. But westerners think if they pay money they will automatically buy results... So ridiculous

That will be reason why Neidan will eat it's own tail. Old rules which have no adaptation to modern mindset and anybody researching adaptation science says that without proper alignment to changes of environment species die - so with the old ways. You should understand that "westerners" (I guess you are one too.) come to that idea of "quickness" because of reality which west dominated rest of the world in one time. Even that quickness is not really healthy in terms of daoist mechanics of life and understanding yin and yang - you can not portray this as weakness. I will not go much into this as it will turn out to be more "political" convo rather then to the topic but do not bash your "west" because you know something other. No advanced neidan practitioner would do such judgments only neidan peanuts.

 

Going back to the topic - your teacher of single Yang points out exactly school (related to Xiao Yao Pai) in this quote. Go ask him and you will get the answer.

Edited December 4, 2016 by SeekerOfHealing

[Antares]

I think that a student that belives him/herself to study the methods of one school would be rightfully disappointed when learning they have spent time and money on something else.

 

Why not play with open cards?

 

"You are the new dude, and you are going to stand in Ma Bu until I belive you have your heart in this."

 

I did not understand what you meant in the first sentence. But I would agree with the last one. I know this out of my own experience that it's better to concentrate on one particular method until mastering it well. Otherwise a person will fall into the problem of having choice. It' better when Teacher can give you certain method which is the best for you. But as for Daogong is quite universal and everyone can benefit from it. I do not say that this is only the right method, there are many other good methods but Daogong could be a good basis  for any other practice including Mabu stance. In order to be able to stay right in the MaBu or pile, it's better to do some basic dynamic exercises which goal is to open meridians first and to remove blockages. That' why Daogong is so important in the very beginning. But some people want to get something advanced from the beginning. I myself was one of those people. Another problem that I have mentioned already is that there are a lot of "methods" available here and there, and mind begins wandering trying to choose "right " one. I was in theese shoes myself and this was a real obstacle for me. And yes, one should try a method and feel whether he/she likes it or not. The choice of the right practice should come from the heart but not from the mind. Just try and see whether like it or not. 

Edited December 4, 2016 by Antares

[Antares]

That will be reason why Neidan will eat it's own tail. Old rules which have no adaptation to modern mindset and anybody researching adaptation science says that without proper alignment to changes of environment species die - so with the old ways. You should understand that "westerners" (I guess you are one too.) come to that idea of "quickness" because of reality which west dominated rest of the world in one time. 

 

 

Agree. Contemporary people have another mindset espec. in the West. And yes, I am one of them. I recall myself buying a lot of books and DVDs online thinking that this or that method would help me a lot. The problem is that we have a lot of "choices" what to do and what is right or not for ourselves. But all this is coming from our speedy mindset. Our environment speeds up our hearts (minds) and then we cant do right choice and cant even listen to the heart. (not telling about everyone though)

 

 

 

Even that quickness is not really healthy in terms of daoist mechanics of life and understanding yin and yang - you can not portray this as weakness.

 

Yeah, this quickness imbalances minds. But yin and yang begin to split up from the very early age. This is what alchemy works with - to bring it together and this is the most difficult thing 

Edited December 4, 2016 by Antares

[Taoist Texts]

 

Why not play with open cards?

 

Because it is a shell game.