Zen

[Adia]

I am sitting, expericing stress and pain, is that normal? Change without change, sounds normal. I feel that it is my training in science was rather intense. Has anybody else seen this in their practice?

[thelerner]

tell us more.  where do you feel the pain?  is the stress mental, from trying to keep a quiet mind?  what do you think is its source?

 

 

For physical pain, one word.  Zafu.  Sitting on a firm cushion that's a couple inches high, takes pressure off the knees and back.   A blanket/thin cushion under the legs and knees makes sitting easier.  After meditating for over a decade from Stillness Movement Chi gung I learned I didn't need to be stone still.  A little natural continuous 'bob' made sitting way easier and burned off a little excess energy. 

[Michael Sternbach]

I was experiencing both mental and physical stress when I was practicing zazen. To work through that is by itself a part of the process. Changes in consciousness occur both unexpectedly and gradually over time as a result of continued effort. But mind you, trying too hard isn't conducive to the purpose. Thus the talk about change without change etc.

 

Here are some ideas you may find useful:

 

If you can, build up the time you are sitting gradually.

 

Choose one of the easier postures first, rather than full lotus.

 

Get up and do some walking meditation (kin-hin) in the middle of your session.

 

Rather than focussing on a state of "empty mind" right from the start, you may want to try counting your breaths initially.

 

Remember that an academic mind tends to be overly active and needs time to adjust. Do go easy on yourself. Focus on awareness, and change will happen naturally.

[doc benway]

I am sitting, expericing stress and pain, is that normal? Change without change, sounds normal. I feel that it is my training in science was rather intense. Has anybody else seen this in their practice?

 

How long have you been sitting?

The body takes time to adjust to the posture.

The mind takes time to adjust to the lack of stimulation.

As we sit longer and the mind becomes more peaceful, it also becomes more sensitive.

More and more subtle levels of awareness and distraction become manifest.

Having confidence in the process is very helpful.

It takes time and we all experience stress and pain along the way.

Good luck!

[Adia]

What I do is stare at the wall, and try to be quiet. It's probably stress from my diet. Nobody really changes, yet we can behave differently. It is that life has happened and I need time to sort it out. Today's world is more complicated than in the past. I have to contemplate what I know in order to be not distracted.

[SeekerOfHealing]

If you practice "just sitting" and you feel that something is happening that means those are stagnant diseases. Consult TCM doctor.

 

Pretty often "hidden" diseases which are develops with time as chronic disease pops up when yin qi is moving thru jing mai while sittng.

 

+ always do standing meditation to develop yang qi before sleep or you develop stage which is called "withering tree" or "roving fire" which is hard to cure.

 

I suggest also to read Zhiyi if you attempting sitting meditation, unproper sitting meditation can develop various imbalances and diseases which with proper knowledge you can counter.

Edited November 13, 2016 by SeekerOfHealing

[Adia]

I am having problems with the judgement of people in my life, represented by a deity person="god". Who lacks compassion tells be death is judgement and lacks hope. It is as if religion judges everybody and the demands of society makes life hard to live. My interpretation of religion is that it is personal and not universal, but my society makes it seem to make people judge others and then themselves. I worry about what seems to be a cult that has become common and hurts peoples' pride and self respect. It is going to take time to overcome social influence of this like. Just wanted to say this, it is personal, I would like some conflicting ideas to stead my resolve, because all there seems to be in my town is doom of judgement. It get so bad in my town that people have to constantly do something or they sink into the misery of self judgement. What do I do?

 

Adia

 

May you love life

Edited November 26, 2016 by Adia

[Adia]

meditation is giving me time to think about things, I really like it. I thought I felt nirvana the other day. It was really not something for the person with out understanding that you, like reality are good.

 

"It's all good!" As a man said.

 

Adia

 

Noble silenc

[Kar3n]

Ahh, the old wages of sin is death speech is still in full swing, I see.

 

I was born into and grew up indoctrinated into believing that if it ain't Jesus, it ain't right. Don't get me wrong I do love Jesus, but I do not believe in all of the hell fire and damnation that the church uses to scare people into their pews and fill the offering plates. Do not fall for it! No one needs that kind of negativity and the small-mindedness that small town Christian America bestows on the perceived heathens in the name of Jesus out of self-righteous concern for souls.

 

The next time someone judges you and tries to make you feel like less than a human being because you are not walking the path they think you should, you just tell them that have a relationship with god (notice the little g), that it is personal, and that if they have concerns about you and/or your soul they are welcomed to pray for you right after they pull the mote out of their own eye. Jesus did say he who is without sin can cast the first stone, ya know.  They will either clutch their pearls and shut up, or they will shout bible verses at you until they pass out. Just walk away, in either case.

 

Give your body and mind time to adjust being still. Do not force it. Sit for 10 to 15 minutes a couple of times a day (morning and evening), increase it slowly over a few weeks to 20 to 30 minutes. You might try some stretching before and after too.

 

I started with this guided bodhicitta meditation at our local Tibetan Buddhist temple. Give it a try when you are ready, if you'd like. He is chatty, so, the meditation itself does not start until 9 minutes in and goes for about 25 minutes with commentary at the end.

 

Best of luck to you. Don't let folks get under your skin in the name of the Lord, I think He would be disappointed that his followers are causing you angst.

 

[kbe]

I never felt at all comfortable in either the full or half lotus position. I attended many Friday evening to Sunday noon weekend sesshin's sitting and hundreds of all day Sunday sittings in the kneeling-cushion-under-buttox position for the strings of 30 minute wall-facing motionless, silent meditation sessions. All the while I was attempting to 'solve' koans and then demonstrate (or not!) to the roshi my understanding of my current koan in formal dokasan twice a day.

 

My then 50+ year old knees often bothered me by the end of the day but ibuprofen helped ease the discomfort enough to be able to try to understand the koan's meaning without too much distraction from the constant minor pain that was still present.

Edited January 24, 2017 by kbe

[Adia]

I have found out what is giving me problems with meditation. If you have things going on that you can't explain, believe in ghost or other supernatural things, what you need is help. Meditation seems to help, being quiet, alone and not moving helps. That is what meditation is to me. Hope you and yours are well! Give your self a long big yawn, you will feel better.

 

Peace be with you,

 

Chris

Edited February 6, 2017 by Adia

[Adia]

Hi, I think I know what going on. What helps me is to open my mouth as wide as possible. Like a big yawn. Disregard my complaint about people in my home town, they are grumpy.

have a nice day.

 

Chris

Edited February 5, 2017 by Adia

[Kar3n]

Hi

[Adia]

I suffer from emotional trauma. That is why I have trouble meditating. It is just going to take time. There is nothing else wrong. It helps to sit around and think things through, which is what mediation is to me. Helps me a great deal. It is also good to talk about stuff. I feel like putting what's going on in my life down on my computer, releases stress.

Happy in USA

[Adia]

In my practice, I stop watching tv, radio and surfing the Internet. I try avoiding music. I try talking, like the Buddha said, without controversy, I keep it simple.and easily understood. I have faith that life and all things are good. I see rebirth and family ( reproduction) as essential to life. What i do is sit quietly , alone, try not to talk. That is what I do.

[Adia]

Hi

[Adia]

Hi, how are you.

[Adia]

This is a word of caution to those in North America. There are no ghosts, i know that it is popular. What you are experiencing is technology. Technology that spreads rumors of ghosts. Be strong.

[Stosh]

In my practice, I stop watching tv, radio and surfing the Internet. I try avoiding music. I try talking, like the Buddha said, without controversy, I keep it simple.and easily understood. I have faith that life and all things are good. I see rebirth and family ( reproduction) as essential to life. What i do is sit quietly , alone, try not to talk. That is what I do.

You try not to talk? Um thats advice I should probably take often. The brevity and sincerity of what you do say is pretty strong though, for me, if all things are good, then talking is good and no real harm can come of it despite my preferences.

Oh and Id suggest for consideration, that condemnation of self, Or mercy , starts with ideas about ones self , and is projected outward. Not ,the reverse where one applies thier reaction to others inward for consistency ,because the intuitive sense of morality is yours to begin with, not ours.

[kbe]

The irony is that once enlightened it is recommended to "Enter the marketplace". I take that to mean living a fully involved, rich and compasionate life, one which by definition involves giving oneself fully but wisely to any and all worthy things. Everyday cnversations with others less far along the path included.

[Stosh]

Well we havent actually any basis to decide who is and who is not as far along the path if we are both standing in the marketplace All things arent worthy ?

I am given to understand that all that is involved in zen practice is to ,look at a white wall , Do you understand the advice to treat all men as straw dogs?

Edited March 5, 2017 by Stosh

[Mark Foote]

Straw dogs, for your benefit and mine, Stosh?

 

Straw dogs (simplified Chinese: 刍狗; traditional Chinese: 芻狗; pinyin: chú gǒu) were used as ceremonial objects in ancient China.

In one translation Chapter 5 of the Tao Te Ching begins with the lines "Heaven and Earth are heartless / treating creatures like straw dogs".

Su Zhe's commentary on this verse explains: "Heaven and Earth are not partial. They do not kill living things out of cruelty or give them birth out of kindness. We do the same when we make straw dogs to use in sacrifices. We dress them up and put them on the altar, but not because we love them. And when the ceremony is over, we throw them into the street, but not because we hate them."^[1]

 

I sat this morning for 40 minutes in the lotus, and I didn't have any pain or numbness.  That's great, for me, but it's always been more difficult after I break my fast.  I myself like to walk as much as I like to sit, and there's a sermon in the Pali Sutta volumes where Gautama the Buddha says he sometimes liked walking on the highway more than answering the call of nature (that sermon is immediately followed by another one that makes no sense at all, where he says he liked answering the call of nature more than walking on the highway--presumably inserted by later editors to ensure that would-be Buddhas didn't hurt themselves).

 

Kobun Otogawa once said, "Take your time with the lotus."  I've been doing that, and I think it's good advice, both for the emphasis on the lotus and for the emphasis on patience (I should mention that it's been 40 years, I've been taking my time!).

 

My approach is actually science, Eastern and Western.  I think we're fortunate, we have the translations and we have some medical science that applies now, but for me it's been years of research and organizing my thoughts on paper after an initial experience. 

Good luck with that Adia, good luck to us all!

Edited March 7, 2017 by Mark Foote

[kbe]

When we look at a white wall we look at all things, what isn't worthy never comes to mind. :-)

Well we havent actually any basis to decide who is and who is not as far along the path if we are both standing in the marketplace All things arent worthy ?

I am given to understand that all that is involved in zen practice is to ,look at a white wall , Do you understand the advice to treat all men as straw dogs?

:-)Woof! Woof!

Edited March 5, 2017 by kbe

[Stosh]

When we look at a white wall we look at all things, what isn't worthy never comes to mind. :-)Woof! Woof!

Thats not really an answer ,If youre just going to bypass direct enquiry , and make self contradictory statements , then an interesting conversation is not in store for me.

[kbe]

So be it.