Zen

[Gunther]

3 hours ago, Stosh said:

 

Non-abidance. From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. In Buddhism, especially the Chan (Zen) traditions, non-abidance , is the practice of avoiding mental constructs during daily life. That is, other than while engaged in meditation (Zazen).

 

I think one will be still using mental constructs all day long , gravity is a mental construct , as is the persistence of objects , as is family relationships , and color and a million other things,. it is precisely this fact , which makes sitting Zazen a thing to do at all . 

I'm not happy with that definition. You are not avoiding anything but you don't grab hold of anything either. That way you stay clear, have a distance so to speak. So you stay calm, relaxed, while you interact quite naturally, that's called meditation. 

Like if you call Zazen: just sit.

It means just be. And beingness is awareness. Awareness is the Buddha within

It just works for me but i'm not dogmatic about it. We all do what we have to do

 

Edited November 7, 2017 by Gunther

[Stosh]

Then I guess you wont care for this definition either ..........  

MEDITATION

noun

1. The action or practice of meditating.

   "a life of meditation"

   synonyms:

   contemplation, thought, thinking, musing, pondering, consideration, reflection,  deliberation, rumination, brooding, reverie, brown study, concentration;  prayer; formal cogitation

contemplation, thought, thinking, musing, pondering, consideration, reflection, deliberation,  rumination, brooding, reverie, brown study, concentration;  since its the exact opposite of  ' letting go ' of ones attentions.    or this one from Merriam Webster.  :to engage in mental exercise (such as concentration on one's breathing or repetition of a mantra) for the purpose of reaching a heightened level of spiritual awareness   Or this one from Yogapedia   Definition - What does Meditation mean? Meditation is the process of quieting the mind in order to spend time in thought for relaxation or religious/spiritual purposes. The goal is to attain an inner state of awareness and intensify personal and spiritual growth. In practice, meditation involves concentrated focus on something such as a sound, image or feeling. Meditation is also referred to as dhyana in Sanskrit.     Yogapedia explains Meditation Meditation involves concentration and relaxation – both of which are enhanced by yoga. Just as there are many styles of yoga, so too are there a variety of ways to meditate. The first stage of meditation is to find a focal point or method of focusing in order to free oneself from distractions. Some methods of focusing include: Sound: Repeating a mantra, phrase or other sound. Visualizing: Picturing an object with eyes closed, such as a lotus flower or the energy points in the body (chakras). Gazing: Looking at an actual object with eyes open. Candles, flowers or pictures are common objects used in gazing. Breathing: Observing the breath and what it feels like – the sensations – as it travels in and out of the body.

[Gunther]

20 minutes ago, Stosh said:

Then I guess you wont care for this definition either ..........  

MEDITATION

😀😀

Zen works it's way backward a bit like the 4th way of Gurdjeff.

You don't work with the body (fakir)

Or the heart, emotions (bhakta, devotee) devotion/prayer

Or the mind like the yogi, magician, (concentration)

But with the 4th body directly. Which is the Self, pure intelligence, intuition, awareness, conciousness.

Edited November 7, 2017 by Gunther

[Stosh]

2 minutes ago, Gunther said:

😀😀

Zen works it's way backward a bit like the 4th way of Gurdjeff.

You don't work with the body (fakir)

Or the heart, emotions (bhakta, devotee) devotion/prayer

Or the mind like the yogi, magician, (concentration)

But with the 4th body directly. Which is the Self, pure intelligence, intuition, awareness, conciousness.

Okay , okay, but then what is it You are doing? when you are sayyy .. driving a car. 

And 

by your definitions , if you sat on a nice park bench and you decided to put in a few minutes of Zen practice , do you hear the grasshopper at your feet ? 

[Gunther]

12 minutes ago, Stosh said:

Okay , okay, but then what is it You are doing? when you are sayyy .. driving a car. 

And 

by your definitions , if you sat on a nice park bench and you decided to put in a few minutes of Zen practice , do you hear the grasshopper at your feet ? 

It's hard to say. I don't do anything really. The tell tale is that clear head space, and a sense of well being. And everything is very normal, ordinary, natural. No confusion. There are situations when you lose that presence for a short while, then you remember, become aware again, go back, that's all. Big deal😀😀

As some Zen master has said when asked about enlightenment/satori:

Already there is no confusion, now what can satori do for you😀

Edited November 7, 2017 by Gunther

[Stosh]

Just now, Gunther said:

It's hard to say. I don't do anything really. The tell tale is that clear head space, and a sense of well being. And everything is very normal, ordinary, natural. No confusion. There are situations when you lose that presence for a short while, then you remember, become aware, that's all. Big deal😀😀

and about the grasshopper? 

[Gunther]

3 minutes ago, Stosh said:

and about the grasshopper? 

What about it? They look nice😀

[Stosh]

8 minutes ago, Gunther said:

What about it? They look nice😀

Well, aside from obscure definitions , which by their nature , are rudimentary and rely on agreed upon usage , I am asking about your experience. A small thing like a bug would it leap out at you? or would you be lost in your reveries. Its a means to determine where your awareness is at. So rephrased, ' would you be aware of even this tiny element in your surroundings , often overlooked, Or Would you be busy , and still overlook it. 

I recognize there are different types of meditations as they get defined , so the word really says little. 

Edited November 7, 2017 by Stosh

[Gunther]

12 minutes ago, Stosh said:

Well, aside from obscure definitions , which by their nature , are rudimentary and rely on agreed upon usage , I am asking about your experience. A small thing like a bug would it leap out at you? or would you be lost in your reveries. Its a means to determine where your awareness is at. So rephreased, ' would you be aware of even this tiny element in your surroundings , often overlooked, Or Would you be busy , and still overlook it. 

Either your attention is focused on something (spotlight) or it's like peripheral view. Not blurred but without anything catching your mind.

Just normal, don't know what you mean, there's nothing wrong with my eyes😀if I start daydreaming it feels odd, I don't like it and shake it off. I guess as you get older you are less fascinated with your mind. Same old, same old

The conversations here in this group are ok, but meaningless Smalltalk is unbearable and the mind goes dull. Even I'm not sure if this isn't meaningless as well

Edited November 7, 2017 by Gunther

[Gunther]

23 minutes ago, Stosh said:

would you be aware of even this tiny element in your surroundings , often overlooked, Or Would you be busy , and still overlook it. 

Most importantly being aware of your thoughts and feelings all the time, there is no more brushing under the carpet, projecting, blaming others, you have to accept yourself as you are

[Gunther]

17 hours ago, Stosh said:

Then I guess you wont care for this definition either ..........  

MEDITATION

noun

1. The action or practice of meditating.

   "a life of meditation"

   synonyms:

   contemplation, thought, thinking, musing, pondering, consideration, r eflection, deliberation, rumination, brooding, reverie, brown study, concentration;  prayer; formal cogitation

contemplation, thought, thinking, musing, pondering, consideration, reflection,  deliberation, rumination, brooding, reverie, brown study, concentration;  since its the exact opposite of  ' letting go ' of ones attentions.    or this one from Merriam Webster.  :to engage in mental exercise (such as concentration on one's breathing or repetition of a mantra) for the purpose of reaching a heightened level of spiritual awareness   Or this one from Yogapedia   Definition - What does Meditation mean? Meditation is the process of quieting the mind in order to spend time in thought for relaxation or religious/spiritual purposes. The goal is to attain an inner state of awareness and intensify personal and spiritual growth. In practice, meditation involves concentrated focus on something such as a sound, image or feeling. Meditation is also referred to as dhyana in Sanskrit.     Yogapedia explains Meditation Meditation involves concentration and relaxation – both of which are enhanced by yoga. Just as there are many styles of yoga, so too are there a variety of ways to meditate. The first stage of meditation is to find a focal point or method of focusing in order to free oneself from distractions. Some methods of focusing include: Sound: Repeating a mantra, phrase or other sound. Visualizing: Picturing an object with eyes closed, such as a lotus flower or the energy points in the body (chakras). Gazing: Looking at an actual object with eyes open. Candles, flowers or pictures are common objects used in gazing. Breathing: Observing the breath and what it feels like – the sensations – as it travels in and out of the body.

Let me ask you something Stosh:

If I do sit down and meditate, I get very easily into an ecstatic state. So if I think about the suffering in the world my whole body starts to radiate streams of energy. Sometimes I think this is like sending loving or healing energy out. Then I think what sentimental nonsense and I don't bother. What say you, I appreciate your advise. Cheers

[Stosh]

25 minutes ago, Gunther said:

Let me ask you something Stosh:

If I do sit down and meditate, I get very easily into an ecstatic state. So if I think about the suffering in the world my whole body starts to radiate streams of energy. Sometimes I think this is like sending loving or healing energy out. Then I think what sentimental nonsense and I don't bother. What say you, I appreciate your advise. Cheers

I think your second thought , not to bother, is one you should not heed. But not ignore either, it comes from a bummer mindset which could use some lookin at. 

It doesnt matter whether I think the sentiment has direct effect, as far as manifesting your life experience goes the gesture is valid. 

But offering prayers INSTEAD of directly manifesting, when you can do so is bogus. IMO

[Stosh]

1 hour ago, Gunther said:

Either your attention is focused on something (spotlight) or it's like peripheral view. Not blurred but without anything catching your mind.

Just normal, don't know what you mean, there's nothing wrong with my eyes😀if I start daydreaming it feels odd, I don't like it and shake it off. I guess as you get older you are less fascinated with your mind. Same old, same old

The conversations here in this group are ok, but meaningless Smalltalk is unbearable and the mind goes dull. Even I'm not sure if this isn't meaningless as well

Expressing onesself as they really are, is generally an involving experience, immersive and powerful. But we dont always do it, sometimes for good reason, and at other times its a reflexive retreat  or indulgence.

You may not have real pressing questions, or they arent coming out. If youre really just an introvert because it feels like you will never really be able to relate in an understood manner.. you could get jaded. 

 Your input determines indirectly what might come back to you. I cant answer any of it , in a fashion directing you to a foolproof solution. But I would say, that by continuing to pursue that which does satisfy your balance, would be a motion in the direction of emptiness.

[Bud Jetsun]

Whatever one types is some patterns of symbols never expressing more than the individual readers minds interpretation. 

 

Some interpretations may transcend the authors, some may seem to fall short from some perspectives. None the same as the authors without the same beings perspective on the same life experiences. 

 

Yet still something so beautiful and brilliant and clear remains while the little minds circles pause. 

 

Unlimited Love, 

-Bud

[Gunther]

8 hours ago, Stosh said:

Your input determines indirectly what might come back to you. I cant answer any of it , in a fashion directing you to a foolproof solution. But I would say, that by continuing to pursue that which does satisfy your balance, would be a motion in the direction of emptiness.

Thanx for the reply Stosh

Maybe you noticed there is a great secret hidden in my question.

It is the bodhisattva concept.

Those who want things for themselves have to struggle many lifetimes.

If you are full, can say thanks what life has given beyond your wildest dreams can ask for no more. Whatever happens from then on is for the benefit of others, the whole. It's ways are mysterious, maybe the Buddhas countless as the grains of sand in the Ganges have realised just that they are insignificant individually like the countless grains of sand in the Ganges. Together they form the BANKS of the river. Forget the Rothschilds😀😀😀😀have nice day

[C T]

1 hour ago, Gunther said:

 

Maybe you noticed there is a great secret hidden in my question.

It is the bodhisattva concept.

 

It wasn't kept hidden for long, thats for sure 

[Stosh]

I missed it. but excuse myself because I am not a Buddhist. So here is a tidbit back, but I tend to be dull and blunt, Is the total emotional content of the Universe more important than the number of lives?

[C T]

50 minutes ago, Stosh said:

I missed it. but excuse myself because I am not a Buddhist. So here is a tidbit back, but I tend to be dull and blunt, Is the total emotional content of the Universe more important than the number of lives?

who can offer a satisfactory answer to that biggie will be some sort of philosophical genius i think

[Stosh]

7 minutes ago, C T said:

who can offer a satisfactory answer to that biggie will be some sort of philosophical genius i think

Luckily, you guys have access to one of those, so what did he say?

[C T]

1 minute ago, Stosh said:

Luckily, you guys have access to one of those, so what did he say?

 

I dont have a clue cos the question is too vast for my mind to even try contextualising its premise.

[Gunther]

6 hours ago, Stosh said:

I missed it. but excuse myself because I am not a Buddhist. So here is a tidbit back, but I tend to be dull and blunt, Is the total emotional content of the Universe more important than the number of lives?

Ok, I lean myself out the window😀:

The emotional content of the universe equals the number of lives. (Sentient beings)

But I could be wrong, not the sharpest tool in the box😀😀

Edited November 8, 2017 by Gunther

[Stosh]

5 minutes ago, Gunther said:

Ok, I lean myself out the window😀:

The emotional content of the universe equals the number of lives. (Sentient beings)

But I could be wrong, not the sharpest tool in the box😀😀

Should I take it that you view it that sadness and happiness equate, and therefore there is no impetus to make the universe a happier place? ,( or that one should just have lots and lots of children). 

[Gunther]

43 minutes ago, Stosh said:

Should I take it that you view it that sadness and happiness equate, and therefore there is no impetus to make the universe a happier place? ,( or that one should just have lots and lots of children). 

Don't know equate, but they are inherent within each other. That means you can't increase the one without the other. So the universe is exactly perfect as it is. (Cosmos)

Maybe worth pointing out that the mess our planet is in is created by those trying to make it a better place. Sorcerer's apprentice😀

The road to hell is plastered with good intentions 😀

[Stosh]

2 hours ago, Gunther said:

Don't know equate, but they are inherent within each other. That means you can't increase the one without the other. So the universe is exactly perfect as it is. (Cosmos)

Maybe worth pointing out that the mess our planet is in is created by those trying to make it a better place. Sorcerer's apprentice😀

The road to hell is plastered with good intentions 😀

Well that is oddly quite true , about intentions being problematic at times.

But I don't think one should just do away with good intentions ,,,  such as your own propensity to emit positive energies.  People may be our own worst enemies , but we are the only choice in sentient friends. Both Taoism and Buddhism appear to me , to encourage restraint, rather than full retreat. 

[Gunther]

54 minutes ago, Stosh said:

Well that is oddly quite true , about intentions being problematic at times.

But I don't think one should just do away with good intentions ,,,  such as your own propensity to emit positive energies.  People may be our own worst enemies , but we are the only choice in sentient friends. Both Taoism and Buddhism appear to me , to encourage restraint, rather than full retreat. 

Note that the good intentions, or bodhisattva concept are just that. A concept that works within. It is you who benefits not the world or sentient beings. Of course if it works and you are liberated you would have made the world a better place. After that enlightened action would be different. Namely, just balancing the opposite forces if needed, not pushing the pendulum into one extreme. The middle way.

 

Edited November 8, 2017 by Gunther