Zen

[zafrogzen]

1 hour ago, Gunther said:

you are kind of suggesting I made that frog story up. And I therefore have an agenda against Zazen. That's not the case. But since I forgot where I read it, I can't give you the source and have to leave it at that 

The meaning is, that without a basic understanding or intuitive glimpse of your true nature (original face) all meditation is cultivating a subtle, refined ego/personality/character. Nothing wrong with that. But you would be polishing the reflection, the face in the mirror so to speak.

There is also a definition of Zazen (platform sutra) that does not mean actual sitting facing a wall.

 

I wasn't suggesting you made it up -- just questioning how "famous" it is, since I can't remember seeing or hearing it. That doesn't mean it isn't out there somewhere. Such sentiments are not uncommon in zen.

 

My point was, that in order to, as you say, come to a  "basic understanding or intuitive glimpse of your (our) true nature" then zazen is the way that most likely engenders that realization, at least in zen. To say that, without having had that realization, zazen is only "polishing the reflection" and cultivating an ego, would appear to close the door to that realization on anyone who hasn't already come to it. Sort of a catch 22.

 

I see zazen as letting go of such convoluted reasoning and opening up to what is already present here. Not so easy! If you have a better method of practice than zazen I'd like to know about it. Most of the folks who dismiss zazen as unnecessary, because they consider that they have already arrived, might simply be avoiding the hard practice described in the OP here. I'm not suggesting you're like that, but even Alan Watts was in that camp.

Edited November 23, 2017 by zafrogzen

[Gunther]

1 hour ago, zafrogzen said:

 

I wasn't suggesting you made it up -- just questioning how "famous" it is, since I can't remember seeing or hearing it. That doesn't mean it isn't out there somewhere. Such sentiments are not uncommon in zen.

 

My point was, that in order to, as you say, come to a  "basic understanding or intuitive glimpse of your (our) true nature" then zazen is the way that most likely engenders that realization, at least in zen. To say that, without having had that realization, zazen is only "polishing the reflection" and cultivating an ego, would appear to close the door to that realization on anyone who hasn't already come to it. Sort of a catch 22.

 

I see zazen as letting go of such convoluted reasoning and opening up to what is already present here. Not so easy! If you have a better method of practice than zazen I'd like to know about it. Most of the folks who dismiss zazen as unnecessary, because they consider that they have already arrived, might simply be avoiding the hard practice described in the OP here. I'm not suggesting you're like that, but even Alan Watts was in that camp.

I'm not sure about AW but probably he stayed on the intellectual level.

Here is Hui Neng's definition of Zazen:

Now that we know that this is so, what is it in this teaching that we call 'sitting in meditation' (tso-ch'an)? In this teaching 'sitting' means without any obstruction anywhere, outwardly and under all circumstances, not to activate thoughts. 'Meditation' is internally to see the original nature and not become confused. (Section 19

the southern or sudden Zen (Chan) of immediacy is not superior/inferior to the gradual. That would refer to the intellect which is of no use there.

The true, original mind (no-mind) is the ordinary mind of wisdom and compassion without self centered attachment.

the separation of practice/cultivation and ordinary day to day life could be a disadvantage.

There is no question of dismissing practice, on the contrary, to take refuge to the Buddha within(awareness)you have to be at it 24/7 until firmly spontaneously effortlessly stabilised.

 

Edited November 23, 2017 by Gunther

[zafrogzen]

Hui Neng had a realization much earlier in his career. I think that initial experience is a prerequisite to the practice he is describing. It can even be said that real practice and “mindfulness” don’t even began until one has realized the original nature (most often a result of zazen).

 

In my humble experience “stabilizing” realization to the point where it can be “seen” while in ordinary, everyday life requires dedicated practice of zazen. Maybe you and Hui Neng didn’t find that necessary.

 

Bodhidharma reportedly spent 9 years in zazen even though he was well advanced in years and realization. The Buddha is also said to have periodically gone into meditation retreat throughout his life. All of the zen teachers I’ve known continued to practice zazen assiduously throughout their careers.

 

[C T]

I think zazen is a tremendously helpful practice for those who have great affinity with Patience (aka Forbearance in some Buddhist schools). Not all practitioners have that essential affinity though, and the Tathagata certainly acknowledged that in many of his teachings. This explains all the different 'keys', methods, or antidotes skilfully and systematically laid out in all the major Buddhist lineages, yet all harmoniously leading back to the essence of Buddhadharma, which is the union of wisdom and compassion. Zazen is one very effective cultivation method to arrive at this union.  

[Gunther]

★★ Genuine Chan/Zen Investigation : Letting Go of Everything!
___________________________________________

◆ In the〈Discourses of Chan Master Dahui Zonggao〉, he said as follows :
“If you wish to have genuine Chan/Zen investigation, just let go of everything. Merely like one who has been under the Great Death, you definitely experience no-knowing and no-realization.  At the very moment of this no-knowing and no-realization, you suddenly break through this single thought; then, even the Buddha cannot do anything to you.”

__________________________

◆ Commentary Sharing :

▲ While encountering any daily activity, resolve it by these four simultaneous steps: face it, accept it, deal with it, and let go of it ― "non-abiding awareness". 

▲ For those who can let things go and take things on in true peace and freedom, every year is an auspicious year. 
     For those who can sow with wisdom and compassion the seeds of blessedness, every day is a good day. 

_/|\_ ❤ _/|\_

_____________________________________________

[Gunther]

If there is no confusion, what can Satori do for you?

 

 

back from the world the new and brave
here by the fireside i'm safe
watching the flames move in the heat
with book and cuppa in my seat
left nothing there for me to crave.

 

tending the fire over time
teach you a lesson quite divine
about that sacred little flame
that burns for one and all the same
the spark of life in space and time.

 

beyond a thousand memories
the mind is very much at peace
but then a sudden thunderbolt
the soul ejects into the cold
void of a thousand mysteries.

 

the mind was now a bit confused
it took a while to getting used
the heart was burning like a fire
to ashes idols of desire
high voltage charge had been infused.

 

but still alive to tell the tale
soon put his ship back under sail
no more asked he the question why
he was not ready yet to die
kept moving on along his trail.

 

from then kept praying he in vain
for lightning him to strike again
and this time round by wisdom's grace
enjoy the weightless float in space
such was his heart desire's pain.

 

peace

[Gunther]

11 hours ago, C T said:

I think zazen is a tremendously helpful practice for those who have great affinity with Patience (aka Forbearance in some Buddhist schools). Not all practitioners have that essential affinity though, and the Tathagata certainly acknowledged that in many of his teachings. This explains all the different 'keys', methods, or antidotes skilfully and systematically laid out in all the major Buddhist lineages, yet all harmoniously leading back to the essence of Buddhadharma, which is the union of wisdom and compassion. Zazen is one very effective cultivation method to arrive at this union.  

And here is the test:

If you can understand this guy is talking pure Zen, you are getting somewhere.

(Slight tongue in cheek and just IMHO)

 

 

[Gunther]

★★ Letting Go & Realizing Reality of All Things
_______________________________________

◆ Chan/Zen Gongan (Koan) : 

▲ Whenever Master Fenzhou Wuye was asked a question, he would simply say, “Let go of deluded thinking!”

▲ Whenever Master Juzhi was asked a question, he would simply raise up one finger. 

_______________________________________

◆ Commentary Sharing :

▲ All human beings believe that there is a real, fixed, and permanent "self", which is the body and mind. They are mistaken. They treat this "self" as the center and attach to the mutual connections of body, mind and environment. Therefore, they create vexations and sufferings for themselves and others. 
―→ "Letting go of deluded thinking" means "putting all self-centered attachments into full rest," or even "completely taming the habit of self-centeredness."  Then, Chan/Zen practitioners are able to see into the self-nature, have an insight into the wisdom-mind, or realize the ultimate reality of all things in the universe. 

▲ The ultimate reality of all things in the universe :

● Each thing is unique, perfect, or ready-made!

● Each thing is of "interconnectedness" (interbeing & interpenetration) with all things ―― one is all, all is one. one penetrates all, all penetrate one. It is just like the Indra network with multiple interfusion and mutual manifestation, therefore, all innumerable things altogether are free and liberated, and function freely without obstruction. 

_/|\_ ❤ _/|\_ 

_____________________________________________

[zafrogzen]

20 hours ago, C T said:

I think zazen is a tremendously helpful practice for those who have great affinity with Patience (aka Forbearance in some Buddhist schools). Not all practitioners have that essential affinity though, and the Tathagata certainly acknowledged that in many of his teachings. This explains all the different 'keys', methods, or antidotes skilfully and systematically laid out in all the major Buddhist lineages, yet all harmoniously leading back to the essence of Buddhadharma, which is the union of wisdom and compassion. Zazen is one very effective cultivation method to arrive at this union.  

 

Patience and perseverance are obviously essential to zazen -- as is a strong “way-seeking mind.”

 

The name “zen” is a Japanese version of “Chan,” which was a Chinese version of the Sanskrit word “Dhyana,” which is usually translated as “meditation.” So zazen and zen are synonymous. Zen is zazen.

 

Most folks who have only read about zen are taken aback when they actually come to practice at a orthodox Rinzai or Soto zen temple. Instead of the loose, romantic, spontaneous and iconoclastic zen they have come to expect from reading about it, they encounter a rigidly choreographed and repetitive formalism where individual expression is actively repressed. With black robes and shaved heads there appears to be a concerted effort to make everyone look and act exactly the same. In Japan and some centers in the West the discipline is brutal and militaristic, with hours of zazen, without even being allowed to cough, much less fidget or move about. The individual ego is ruthlessly annihilated through long exhausting days of silent routine, hard work and zazen. Ironically individual personalities eventually become more clear against such a monotonous background. The beauty of life leaps out from massive sensory deprivation. During intensive sesshin meditation retreats it’s not uncommon for grown men to sob uncontrollably at the shear intensity of such simple experiences as the resonant sound of a bell or the chanted words of a sutra. The whole situation is designed to push one deep into the inner world of the mind.

 

I just read the above to my brother who's here for thanksgiving and he said, "Or it could just be an expression of the craziness of Japanese culture."

 

 

 

Edited November 24, 2017 by zafrogzen

[cold]

4 minutes ago, zafrogzen said:

 In Japan and some centers in the West the discipline is brutal and militaristic, with hours of zazen, without even being allowed to cough, much less fidget or move about. The individual ego is ruthlessly annihilated through long exhausting days of silent routine, work and zazen. Ironically individual personalities eventually become more clear against such a monotonous background. The beauty of life leaps out from massive sensory deprivation. During intensive sesshin meditation retreats it’s not uncommon for grown men to sob uncontrollably at the shear intensity of such simple experiences as the resonant sound of a bell or the chanted words of a sutra. The whole situation is designed to push one deep into the inner world of the mind.

 

 

 

 

Sounds like both a cruel path and a possibly a quick way to become insane.

[Gunther]

3 hours ago, cold said:

 

Sounds like both a cruel path and a possibly a quick way to become insane.

Trying not to generalise, but....

Brutal, militaristic, ruthless, (and you could add a few more)

On the one side this appeal to the macho samurai image, exotic, medieval, and so forth,

On the other hand, this is the way of the fakir, who tortures his body to gain will power, or also the yogi torturing his mind for the same reason.

It has nothing to do with Zen whatsoever.

Zen is the direct pointing to your true nature outside of scriptures, dogma, rituals and so forth.

 

Edited November 24, 2017 by Gunther

[cold]

1 minute ago, Gunther said:

Trying not to generalise, but....

Brutal, militaristic, ruthless, (and you could add a few more)

On the one side this appeal to the macho samurai image, exotic, medieval, and so forth,

On the other hand, this is the way of the fakir, who tortures his body to gain will power, or also the yogi torturing his mind for the same reason.

It has nothing to do with Zen whatsoever

 

Says you, based upon anything in particular?

Because it came up in a thread on Zen.

 

This "she said" "he said" and or "truths trust me" in general just go so far for me...

The art of avoid or evade uncomfortable possibilities / outcomes is, (and I am generalizing now), rampant on the internet and even here to some degree.

 

We are to often busy defending our positions / beliefs, to take the time to read listen to others views.

To take the time to our examine personal biases and motivations.

I hate that terrible feeling that occurs when one realizes they aren't going to prevail...

[Gunther]

1 hour ago, cold said:

 

Says you, based upon anything in particular?

Because it came up in a thread on Zen.

 

This "she said" "he said" and or "truths trust me" in general just go so far for me...

The art of avoid or evade uncomfortable possibilities / outcomes is, (and I am generalizing now), rampant on the internet and even here to some degree.

 

We are to often busy defending our positions / beliefs, to take the time to read listen to others views.

To take the time to our examine personal biases and motivations.

I hate that terrible feeling that occurs when one realizes they aren't going to prevail...

Yes, of course it's just my opinion. I don't need to defend it because I don't care if you disagree. But it would be interesting if you was specific about how/why you do so. ( Debunk my arguments so to speak😀)

[zafrogzen]

Quote

Most folks who have only read about zen are taken aback when they actually come to practice at a orthodox Rinzai or Soto zen temple. Instead of the loose, romantic, spontaneous and iconoclastic zen they have come to expect from reading about it, they encounter a rigidly choreographed and repetitive formalism where individual expression is actively repressed. With black robes and shaved heads there appears to be a concerted effort to make everyone look and act exactly the same. In Japan and some centers in the West the discipline is brutal and militaristic, with hours of zazen, without even being allowed to cough, much less fidget or move about. The individual ego is ruthlessly annihilated through long exhausting days of silent routine, hard work and zazen. Ironically individual personalities eventually become more clear against such a monotonous background. The beauty of life leaps out from massive sensory deprivation. During intensive sesshin meditation retreats it’s not uncommon for grown men to sob uncontrollably at the shear intensity of such simple experiences as the resonant sound of a bell or the chanted words of a sutra. The whole situation is designed to push one deep into the inner world of the mind.

 

So am I the only one here who has actually done a seven day zen sesshin at a zen center or monastery? How about you Gunther -- Rinzai, Soto, Sanbo Kyodan, anywhere?

 

Note that I wrote "In Japan and some centers in the West...." My description was of the most disciplined type of practice center, but it is not far off from most zen practice, even here in the West -- intensive zazen is the rule, rather than the exception.

Edited November 25, 2017 by zafrogzen

[zafrogzen]

In discussions with zen teachers, I’m usually the one who is the “outsider,” critical of established zen practice here in the West. While I’ve come to appreciate the austere beauty of disciplined practice and zazen, I don’t think the master/disciple paradigm has transferred well from Japan (and Tibet) to the West. American culture in particular has become so obsessed with “celebrities” and fame, that a cult of “the Zen Master and the Guru” has arisen here, resulting in numerous cases of abuse of power. Frankly the zen teachers I’ve known, including Shunryu Suzuki, despite being very lovable, were not superhuman individuals who have transcended the world of ordinary mortals -- on the contrary, they are often more “human” than most. The tradition and ritual of “transmission” where a zen teacher is linked in a direct line of masters sharing the same “Mind” going all the way back to the Buddha, has only served to give credence to their status as special individuals worthy of  mindless devotion and respect.

 

Edited November 25, 2017 by zafrogzen

[Mark Foote]

I wrote a post I titled "The Job" on my blog not long ago, in which I said this: 

 

"My posture is not good, Zen teachers can barely keep their hands off me, when I go to sesshin (sounds like the same is true for American Zen priests who go to Japan, even if they have good posture).

The job here in the West, as far as I'm concerned, is to understand the causality, physical and mental, behind the action of the posture and the mind, accept it and let it play out. If I sit up straight some of the time, it's not because I'm trying to sit up straight."

(From here--the bit about American Zen priests who go to Japan is a reference to Jiryu Mark Rutschman-Byler, who wrote about the reception his good posture received in Japan in "Two Shores of Zen".)

 

I've been emailing with a friend about the role of intent in zazen (and many other things).  David Chadwick has an anecdote from Blanche Hartman, in "Zen Is Right Here":
 

Suzuki Roshi usually encouraged me because I was so down on myself, but once after a one-day sitting, for the first time, I was feeling proud of myself. I went to him and said, “Now I can count every breath. What do I do next?”

He leaned forward and said to me fiercely, "Don't ever think that you can sit zazen! That's a big mistake! Zazen sits zazen!"
 

(p.56. Blanche Hartman, City Center, 1970) (from here)

 

That's a pretty stern injunction, isn't it?

 

Apparently most people have pretty good posture, and don't feel they have to concern themselves with anatomy/kinesthesiology in order to relax when they sit, nor do they feel compelled to distinguish particular senses out of necessity in the movement of breath.  I don't either, until I've been sitting about 25 minutes (for the anatomy) or 30 minutes (for the necessity).  Maybe I can just let myself breathe by about 35, that's the cessation of happiness apart from equanimity as far as I'm concerned. 



 

Edited November 30, 2017 by Mark Foote

[zafrogzen]

What in the world does the “cessation of happiness apart from equanimity” mean -- that happiness ends when equanimity does? And what does that have to do with just letting yourself breath?

 

[Mark Foote]

14 hours ago, zafrogzen said:

What in the world does the “cessation of happiness apart from equanimity” mean -- that happiness ends when equanimity does? And what does that have to do with just letting yourself breath?

 

 

Well I'm so glad you asked!

 

The equanimity referred to is equanimity with respect to the multiplicity of the senses.  So the cessation of happiness apart from equanimity means there's only happiness while there is equanimity with respect to the multiplicity of the senses, no happiness apart from that.  In my experience, there's usually a moment in zazen where equanimity with respect to the senses becomes necessary to the movement of breath, meaning although the mind is not excluded, other senses may be more crucial at the moment.

 

In his article on the vestibular organs, which I linked on a prior page, David Brown offers this:
 

Jean Ayres, an occupational therapist and the creator of Sensory Integration Theory and Therapy, is more concise and states simply that:

 

“The Vestibular system is the unifying system. All other types of sensation are processed in reference to this basic Vestibular information. The activity in the Vestibular system provides a framework for the other aspects of our experiences.”

 

I would agree with Ayres, and I would agree because that's my experience in the moment where the inclusion of any and all of the senses becomes necessary in order to breath (it's "where am I", writ large--along with what do I feel, what has weight).

 

The exercise of relaxation always seems to be a part of the "the cessation of ease apart from equanimity". 

 

Meanwhile, "the cessation of happiness apart from equanimity" for me involves jumping through the suffocation response to experience a freedom of breath to move and of the body to respond (instead of the other way 'round).

 

Edited November 30, 2017 by Mark Foote

[Mark Foote]

In Bielefeldt's "Dogen's Manuals of Zen Meditation", he translates the "Lancet of Seated Meditation" (Kannon Dori Kosho Horin Ji),  which includes the dialogue between Ta-chi and Nan-yueh about polishing a tile.  Here's part of that dialogue:

 

Ta-chi said, "How can you produce a mirror by polishing a tile?"

 

Nan-yueh replied, "How can you make a Buddha by sitting in meditation?"

 

Ta-chi asked, "Then, what is right?"

 

Nan-yueh answered, "When a man is driving a cart, if the cart doesn't go, should he beat the cart or beat the ox?"

 

("Dogen's Manuals of Zen Meditation", Carl Bielefeldt, pg 195-195, UC Press ed. 1988)

 

There's a moment in my sitting where only equanimity with respect to the senses preserves ease in the stretch of breath, where only equanimity with respect to the senses allows happiness in the freedom of breath.

 

 

 

[Gunther]

★★ Reality of “Genuine Arising In Pure Mind”
___________________________________________

◆ All the terms "Chan mind", "Buddha mind", "straightforward mind", "ordinary mind", "beginner's mind", "bodhi mind", "pure mind", "wisdom mind", or "compassion mind" etc. have the same meaning ― they all mean "no mind" (💟 無心).

▲ The genuine and ultimate "no mind", which transcends the relativity of "mind and no mind", implies that the wisdom mind of no-self or the compassionate mind of impartiality  spontaneously manifests when Chan/Zen practitioners completely let go of their self-centered attachment and perfectly tame their habitual pattern of self-centeredness. 

____________________________________

◆ Chan Master Mazu Daoyi gave a discourse to the public：
“The Way (Chan) does not need cultivation, but only not to defile it. What is defilement? While there is mind of arising and perishing, and mind of effort and intension, all is defilement. Suppose the Chan practitioner wants to directly realize the Way, the "ordinary mind" (no mind) is the Way. The so-called ordinary mind is of no effort, no right or wrong, no grasping or rejecting, no nihilism or permanence, no sentient beings and no saints.”

▲ From the perspective of Chan/the Way, true mind is illusory mind and vice versa, true mind and illusory mind are of non-duality and non-oneness. Furthermore, Chan/ the Way is of intrinsic completion and accomplishment, of original self-sufficiency, and without cultivation of the Way and Sitting Chan. Chan practitioners merely have to live their daily life with the "ordinary mind" (no mind), then they are able to realize that this mind is ultimate non-arising and effortlessness.

____________________________________

◆ In《Diamond Sutra》, the Buddha expounded "Genuine Arising In Pure Mind" :
“Subhuti, all the Bodhisattvas and Mahasattvas should give rise to the pure mind in this way: The [pure] mind does not arise with abiding in sight. The [pure] mind does not arise with abiding in sound, smell, taste, touch, or thoughts. The [pure] mind arises with no abiding in anything.”

▲ "The pure mind (no mind) arises with no abiding in anything" is the genuine realization of "ultimate reality of the Middle Way" ― the realization of non-duality and non-oneness of existence and emptiness by way of being apart from "four statements" at the very moment of merging into the "four statements". 
(♥Four statements : existence, emptiness, existence is emptiness, or no-existence & no-emptiness.) 

🙏❤🙏💛🙏💜🙏
_____________________________________________

[doc benway]

On 11/25/2017 at 1:07 PM, zafrogzen said:

In discussions with zen teachers, I’m usually the one who is the “outsider,” critical of established zen practice here in the West. While I’ve come to appreciate the austere beauty of disciplined practice and zazen, I don’t think the master/disciple paradigm has transferred well from Japan (and Tibet) to the West. American culture in particular has become so obsessed with “celebrities” and fame, that a cult of “the Zen Master and the Guru” has arisen here, resulting in numerous cases of abuse of power. Frankly the zen teachers I’ve known, including Shunryu Suzuki, despite being very lovable, were not superhuman individuals who have transcended the world of ordinary mortals -- on the contrary, they are often more “human” than most. The tradition and ritual of “transmission” where a zen teacher is linked in a direct line of masters sharing the same “Mind” going all the way back to the Buddha, has only served to give credence to their status as special individuals worthy of  mindless devotion and respect.

 

 

Very good points. There is a lot of truth in what you say. Nevertheless there is a credibility and value in an unbroken tradition. at least for me. While you're right that tradition and rituals of transmission and initiation can and do cause problems, especially in the West, there is great power in deep devotion and respect. The key is that it must not be mindless, it must be clearly understood and informed. It is very easy to get infatuated with the exotic and mysterious aspects of the messenger and completely miss the message. 

[zafrogzen]

On 11/30/2017 at 9:55 PM, Mark Foote said:

In Bielefeldt's "Dogen's Manuals of Zen Meditation", he translates the "Lancet of Seated Meditation" (Kannon Dori Kosho Horin Ji),  which includes the dialogue between Ta-chi and Nan-yueh about polishing a tile.  Here's part of that dialogue:

 

Ta-chi said, "How can you produce a mirror by polishing a tile?"

 

Nan-yueh replied, "How can you make a Buddha by sitting in meditation?"

 

Ta-chi asked, "Then, what is right?"

 

Nan-yueh answered, "When a man is driving a cart, if the cart doesn't go, should he beat the cart or beat the ox?"

 

("Dogen's Manuals of Zen Meditation", Carl Bielefeldt, pg 195-195, UC Press ed. 1988)

 

There's a moment in my sitting where only equanimity with respect to the senses preserves ease in the stretch of breath, where only equanimity with respect to the senses allows happiness in the freedom of breath.

 

 

I'd say equanimity with respect to everything.

 

That "polishing a tile" koan is often used to justify avoidance of zazen and hard practice, notably by Alan Watts. Dogen, in one of his more convoluted rambles, goes on to say that you CAN make a mirror by polishing a tile.

 

Zazen is not trying to become something other than what one already is. Very simple -- it can even be understood intellectually with some study. But, thankfully, there is a practice (zazen) to actualize it.

Edited December 2, 2017 by zafrogzen

[zafrogzen]

4 hours ago, steve said:

Nevertheless there is a credibility and value in an unbroken tradition. at least for me. While you're right that tradition and rituals of transmission and initiation can and do cause problems, especially in the West, there is great power in deep devotion and respect.

 

True, and I've felt that many times in the midst of sesshins in a monastic setting. However, in my experience that devotion and respect is usually directed towards individuals rather than the tradition of which they are only one part. In Tibetan practice in particular the "Guru" is said to be infallible and if he does something stupid or venal we are directed to view it as beyond our understanding and not what it obviously is. I've been amazed at how otherwise intelligent, highly educated folks can be party to such nonsense.This has also carried over into zen, where everyone, especially teachers, are heavily invested in maintaining the superiority and exceptionalism of their immediate predecessors.

 

Mahayana teachings are about total equality, with the Buddha-Nature to be seen in everyone. That's where devotion and respect should be placed.

[Mark Foote]

11 hours ago, Gunther said:

★★ Reality of “Genuine Arising In Pure Mind”
___________________________________________

◆ All the terms "Chan mind", "Buddha mind", "straightforward mind", "ordinary mind", "beginner's mind", "bodhi mind", "pure mind", "wisdom mind", or "compassion mind" etc. have the same meaning ― they all mean "no mind" (💟 無心).

▲ The genuine and ultimate "no mind", which transcends the relativity of "mind and no mind", implies that the wisdom mind of no-self or the compassionate mind of impartiality  spontaneously manifests when Chan/Zen practitioners completely let go of their self-centered attachment and perfectly tame their habitual pattern of self-centeredness. 

____________________________________

◆ Chan Master Mazu Daoyi gave a discourse to the public：
“The Way (Chan) does not need cultivation, but only not to defile it. What is defilement? While there is mind of arising and perishing, and mind of effort and intension, all is defilement. Suppose the Chan practitioner wants to directly realize the Way, the "ordinary mind" (no mind) is the Way. The so-called ordinary mind is of no effort, no right or wrong, no grasping or rejecting, no nihilism or permanence, no sentient beings and no saints.”

▲ From the perspective of Chan/the Way, true mind is illusory mind and vice versa, true mind and illusory mind are of non-duality and non-oneness. Furthermore, Chan/ the Way is of intrinsic completion and accomplishment, of original self-sufficiency, and without cultivation of the Way and Sitting Chan. Chan practitioners merely have to live their daily life with the "ordinary mind" (no mind), then they are able to realize that this mind is ultimate non-arising and effortlessness.

____________________________________

◆ In《Diamond Sutra》, the Buddha expounded "Genuine Arising In Pure Mind" :
“Subhuti, all the Bodhisattvas and Mahasattvas should give rise to the pure mind in this way: The [pure] mind does not arise with abiding in sight. The [pure] mind does not arise with abiding in sound, smell, taste, touch, or thoughts. The [pure] mind arises with no abiding in anything.”

▲ "The pure mind (no mind) arises with no abiding in anything" is the genuine realization of "ultimate reality of the Middle Way" ― the realization of non-duality and non-oneness of existence and emptiness by way of being apart from "four statements" at the very moment of merging into the "four statements". 
(♥Four statements : existence, emptiness, existence is emptiness, or no-existence & no-emptiness.) 

🙏❤🙏💛🙏💜🙏
_____________________________________________

 

 

A thing that I have learned to do, out of necessity, is to look for the positive and substantive in the teaching.  Gautama taught this way, and Yuanwu (the author of "The Blue Cliff Record"). 

 

When I try to write in a positive and substantive manner, I am forced to recognize when I am saying something that is intended for someone else, and when I am saying something that is in some way new and consequential to me. 

 

There are moments in Dogen's teaching where he says something positive and substantive, although his comments on the Chinese legacy are often mostly negations.  Looking for the positive and substantive in "Genjo Koan", for example, I came up with this:
 

"When you find your place where you are, practice occurs, actualizing the fundamental point. When you find your way at this moment, practice occurs, actualizing the fundamental point…"

 

There's a third line that goes with the first two, and here Dogen reverts to a negative, but I forgive him!

Although actualized immediately, the inconceivable may not be apparent.

 

As far as I know, there's only one way to make positive and substantive statements that speak to the other side of the universe--we all have to have at least one hand on, and let it move like Baoche's fan:

 

 

 

How's that?

[Mark Foote]

Quote

"Suppose the Chan practitioner wants to directly realize the Way, the "ordinary mind" (no mind) is the Way."-- Mazu Daoyi

"Ordinary mind".  Is this the same as, "when you find your place where you are, practice occurs, actualizing the fundamental point"? 

 

Here's Bodhidharma:

 

"Outwardly cease all involvements, inwardly have no coughing or sighing in the mind--with your mind like a wall you can enter the way."

 

(Denkoroku "Transmission of Light", trans. Cleary, Huike/Shenguang #30)

 

I think he's speaking to "one-pointedness" of mind, where "the activity in the Vestibular system provides a framework for the other aspects of our experiences" (Ayres).  

 

Falling upright from the location of my awareness, which shifts and moves with the sense contact precipitated by the necessity for breath (sense contact precipitated by the necessity for breath--"when you find your way at this moment, practice occurs, actualizing the fundamental point"). 

Pretty tight connection for Bodhidharma between the movement of breath and the "ordinary mind".

 

 

Edited December 2, 2017 by Mark Foote