Rainbow Body....a matter of karma?

[Wells]

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[Wells]

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[Andrei]

They are all illusions of the mind-brain. Waste of time.

[Wells]

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Edited March 2, 2017 by Wells

[Jeff]

I have trained for around two years intensely in dzogchen thogal,

experienced all kinds of light visions,

but no spiritual development whatsoever took place that would indicate that I developed successfully towards rainbow body,

so I declare officially my spiritual endeavor with this system as FAILED.

I am surely not alone with being not successful in that, when I look at Tibetan_Ice' reports

as well as those of other students I talked to and found reports of.

Getting a "direct introduction" from a dzogchen teacher is seemingly not the missing piece of the puzzle,

as to my knowledge none of the many, possibly hundreds, of westerner students of Norbu and other teachers,

who got "direct introduction" from their teachers, have achieved rainbow body or other significant spiritual success.

My personal conclusion is that it's simply a matter of karma,

if you will be successful in achieving a significant level of realization with dzogchen or not.

This is a hard blow for me and I see no reason to bother any longer with dzogchen

or other buddhist teachings.

I will return to study taoist systems of alchemy,

which have always resonated more with me anyways.

 

Two years does not seem to be that long of time to work with any tradition. Did you receive direct introduction from a qualified teacher/master? Also, did that validate your thogal visions?

 

​Reside in Rigpa?

 

Thanks.

Edited November 17, 2016 by Jeff

[Wells]

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[Wells]

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[Wells]

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[Wells]

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[小梦想]

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Edited August 10, 2018 by 小梦想

[Cheshire Cat]

but no spiritual development whatsoever took place that would indicate that I developed successfully towards rainbow body,

 

In terms of experiences and results, what would you consider to be a spiritual development? The transference of consciousness to a spiritual body?

[Jetsun]

Personally if two years showed nothing I would give it up. Yet you can't blame the Buddhadharma as practically every single instruction and teaching by every single Dzogchen master ever written says you need direct introduction or pointing out instructions in person from a realised master. If you don't follow the most fundamental basic instruction of a system you can't blame the system for not producing results.

 

Yet I think you have a point about Norbu, I see nothing of value from his students, or at least those who post online, he is a great scholar and has done some wonderful work for the Dharma but I personally see no evidence he has the capacity to bring students to the realisations which are outlined in the texts. Yet you can't judge an entire system by one master.

[joeblast]

Sitting Buddhas appearing in front of you?

Rather an illusion due to neurological processes without any spiritual significance:

 

The hippocampal pole has virtually the same "thumb-shape" as the white, bulbous figure that the meditator sees [...]

What happens is this: as the meditator's focus of attention gets stronger, there are more discharges in the neurons surrounding the hippocampal pole, and this causes a brightening of the thumb-shaped image. As the image brightens, more of the posterior extension of the hippocampal region that is situated just behind the anterior pole becomes visible,

creating the illusion that the bulb-shaped figure has pushed forward.

 

There's a reason why I began all of my anapanasati writings with neurology.  When you've began there, you find the stage already set when you get here.

[Ish]

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Edited April 4, 2018 by Ish

[Wells]

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Edited March 2, 2017 by Wells

[Miffymog]

Don't beat yourself up too much. You'll undoubtedly have gained much from the time and effort you put in, even if you don't feel you have. Your two years of effort will also only help what ever practice you move on to next. I used to have a simple sitting practice, I've now moved onto a simple standing practice. Having done the sitting practice has helped give me far more realistic expectations of my standing.

[Vajra Fist]

My understanding is that these are monastic practices, that require being outside the distraction of every day life to complete. It doesn't work to practice as a layman.

 

Either you need to dedicate yourself to a practice by leaving society. Or practice the Pure Land path, recite the nembutsu in your day to day life with a vow to be reborn for further cultivation in sukhavati.

[thelerner]

I don't believe the two years were wasted.  Maybe you didn't achieve the super lofty 1 in a million goal (in 2 short years), but that doesn't mean nothing gained.

 

Looking back, what have you improved or insights gained in terms of concentration, meditation, philosophy, growth? 

 

 

even on the rubble of shattered dreams,

we sit a little higher,

think; a little wiser and

move a little stronger. 

[gatito]

What do you think spiritual development is?

 

What are you striving to achieve?

[bluefire]

Two years and a lot of energy wasted for nothing but a light show.

About how much time have you spent per day with practice?

[Wells]

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[Wells]

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[Kar3n]

Fascinating. Thanks for sharing this, Wells.

 

At any point in the "light shows" did you ever try to connect beyond what you were seeing or feeling, searching deeper within yourself?

[Andrei]

I think it's more than just experiencing a light show.

 

 

 

Rainbow Body.

 

What if this Rainbow Body is just a myth? What if is just someone's fantasy in the past of human race that became inherited culturally and spread in various religions?

[liminal_luke]

It`s great to have a lofty goal like Rainbow Body. At the same time, there are so many smaller signposts of progress along the way that also deserve to be acknowledged and celebrated.  I am not anywhere close to enlightened and yet my practice benefits me in many ways just the same.  I know how to let go of stress.  I am kinder and more forgiving of my own foibles and those of people around me (although you might not know it from occasional spats here on TTB).

 

So I get that in your assessment you haven`t made progress towards the Rainbow Body, but I`m wondering if you`ve achieved any of these lesser mini-accomplishments.  Have you experienced moments of calm?  Relaxation in your body?  A sense of greater spaciousness and ease with life`s inevitable ups and downs?  If so, I say it has not been in vain.

 

You say that karma plays into it, and I agree.  If that`s the case, the work you`ve done this last two years has laid a karmic foundation that will be there for you if you take up the practice later on in this life or in a life down the line somewhere.  Your future self thanks you.

Edited November 18, 2016 by liminal_luke