Rainbow Body....a matter of karma?

[Wells]

.

Edited March 2, 2017 by Wells

[already]

wells,

I have it on good authority that thogal should  "ONLY" be practiced in strict retreat for at least 7 years under a masters supervision.

 

Thogal shouldn 't be practiced by ordinary folk with ordinary lives and  involved with  jobs and family.

 

Traditionally anybody who comes to the point of practicing thogal have left the mundane life behind long before they started to practice thogal.

 

In the dzogchen community there are probably only a few who practice thogal and among them only a tiny tiny number do it correctly.And why aren't yet any very advanced practitioners of thogal ?  Because you need at least a decade of intense practice for any accomplishment to manifest.

[aboo]

It's always interesting reading your posts Wells, I hope you find something new to practice and I will enjoy reading all about it.

Edited November 20, 2016 by aboo

[Machin Shin]

I think it's more than just experiencing a light show.

 

 

 

Rainbow Body.

 

Do you know what uses it has while you work towards your death and rebirth?

 

Have you tried going to a buddhahall and doing some prostrations and calm abiding?  

 

 

[Jox]

I read, I think here on The Dao Bums ... master Yan Xin supposed to say, that 60 years needed for his method to achieve final stage or something like that ...  

[SeekerOfHealing]

Rainbow body and dzogchen teachings are supposed to be easy and quick, like instant soup for 1$ but like most teachings with times got degenerated or just explained wrong way from people without proper realization to speak from it. Dzogchen thru process of insight unclogs your consciousness, then your body and your mind dissolves in something which can not be expressed after stabilization your body turns actually into light so Rainbow Body is results of insight - not anything else.

 

Nobody can achieve rainbow body really - as such it's wrong notion and someone who says that practice unauthentic dzogchen teachings.

 

It's very thin line between intellectual understanding of view and actualizing the view which results in realization. Dzgochen teachings last about couple seconds or minutes with understanding and applying the view -> realization -> rainbow body without any practice or anything like that.

Edited November 30, 2016 by SeekerOfHealing

[already]

Rainbow body and dzogchen teachings are supposed to be easy and quick, like instant soup for 1$ but like most teachings with times got degenerated or just explained wrong way from people without proper realization to speak from it. Dzogchen thru process of insight unclogs your consciousness, then your body and your mind dissolves in something which can not be expressed after stabilization your body turns actually into light so Rainbow Body is results of insight - not anything else.

 

Nobody can achieve rainbow body really - as such it's wrong notion and someone who says that practice unauthentic dzogchen teachings.

 

It's very thin line between intellectual understanding of view and actualizing the view which results in realization. Dzgochen teachings last about couple seconds or minutes with understanding and applying the view -> realization -> rainbow body without any practice or anything like that.

pure dross

[Dharmakaya]

I think it's more than just experiencing a light show.

 

 

 

Rainbow Body.

 

Why do you want to achieve rainbow body?

 

As far as I understand it, rainbow body is the result not of having good karma, but of having fully purified one's karma such that none remains.  And I think logically, the only person who could achieve this would be a Buddha, as anyone short of Buddha-hood still has remaining karma.

 

So really if you want to attain rainbow body, you are going to have to achieve full enlightenment.  As such I think it's no surprise you didn't achieve it in two years, or that many westerners have likewise not achieved it.

 

I think Buddhism, as a meditative system, has a lot to offer, but it also contains much dogma and it can be hard to separate the wheat from the chaff.  In my view, Buddhism most basically is a system of progressive attainment; we can see this in a diverse array of teachings, from the Theravada 4 path system to the many complex systems of attainment in Tibetan Buddhism, including Mahayana approaches as well as Mahamudra and Dzogchen.  However, without access to an approach or teacher that expressly recognizes progressive attainment, it is no surprise most practitioners experience little genuine realization.

[SeekerOfHealing]

As far as I understand it, rainbow body is the result not of having good karma, but of having fully purified one's karma such that none remains

Then this is not understanding of dzogchen. None of Longchenpa's, Garab Dorje's, Dujdom Lingpa's etc would you find such things. Dzogchen is seeing thru duality or detaching your awareness or consciousness (but not the 6th if we base our understanding and definition of consciousness on the basis of Yogacara). Once we see the base of mind, reality, self (whatever) karma do not gets purified or dissolved we seeing thru it. When we speak about Rainbow Body we speaks about dzogchen teachings. Dzogchen is not path of purification or anything it's enlightenment in the less of blink of an eye but to find proper dzogchen teachings like Dudjom Lingpa and other types of people is super hard. Most aspire for Mahayana path and most teachings are related to being born again and again to help other people - If you practice such teachings without motive of Shantideva or Atisha then you will be in big trouble, mere vows of saving all beings are not just prayers - it's real karmic connection and basis for buddhahood. Anyone who fools himself to practice buddhist teachings without being on path of bodhisattva it's just fooling himself. Sorry for harsh words and do not take me like some kind of totalitarian but if we speak about buddhism, dzogchen let's speak right way with proper understanding. Taoist freedom and non-care formless style understanding is not good - that's why I practice Taoism and like formless school like Xiao Yao Pai as they are very fit for most of people mind. Being on buddhist path is very hard work, working on character, merits, keeping vows, sacrificing yourself and doing everything to get off suffering from others. Do you know what that mean? Every step you breath, you think, every action you do for others for their sake, every piece of bread you take half or more then half or everything and give out without even thinking you gave out something. Forgetting about yourself you are finding yourself. Do not take those teachings such lightly - it's better to practice Taoism or other free-spirit tradition.

 

Sorry for my tone in this post but Rainbow Body is reward body, you can sit and watch sunlight all they thinking you practice thogal - do not fool yourself. Till you not get rid motion of self you will never achieve it without emptiness and fruit of Heart Sutra.

Edited November 30, 2016 by SeekerOfHealing

[C T]

Then this is not understanding of dzogchen. None of Longchenpa's, Garab Dorje's, Dujdom Lingpa's etc would you find such things. Dzogchen is seeing thru duality or detaching your awareness or consciousness (but not the 6th if we base our understanding and definition of consciousness on the basis of Yogacara). Once we see the base of mind, reality, self (whatever) karma do not gets purified or dissolved we seeing thru it. When we speak about Rainbow Body we speaks about dzogchen teachings. Dzogchen is not path of purification or anything it's enlightenment in the less of blink of an eye but to find proper dzogchen teachings like Dudjom Lingpa and other types of people is super hard. Most aspire for Mahayana path and most teachings are related to being born again and again to help other people - If you practice such teachings without motive of Shantideva or Atisha then you will be in big trouble, mere vows of saving all beings are not just prayers - it's real karmic connection and basis for buddhahood. Anyone who fools himself to practice buddhist teachings without being on path of bodhisattva it's just fooling himself. Sorry for harsh words and do not take me like some kind of totalitarian but if we speak about buddhism, dzogchen let's speak right way with proper understanding. Taoist freedom and non-care formless style understanding is not good - that's why I practice Taoism and like formless school like Xiao Yao Pai as they are very fit for most of people mind. Being on buddhist path is very hard work, working on character, merits, keeping vows, sacrificing yourself and doing everything to get off suffering from others. Do you know what that mean? Every step you breath, you think, every action you do for others for their sake, every piece of bread you take half or more then half or everything and give out without even thinking you gave out something. Forgetting about yourself you are finding yourself. Do not take those teachings such lightly - it's better to practice Taoism or other free-spirit tradition.

 

Sorry for my tone in this post but Rainbow Body is reward body, you can sit and watch sunlight all they thinking you practice thogal - do not fool yourself. Till you not get rid motion of self you will never achieve it without emptiness and fruit of Heart Sutra.

Buddhists (I mean those who actually understand the truth of impermanence, not self, and unsatisfactoriness) will see it differently from whats bolded there above. Those who realise the above truth thru personal experience, which means not only by intellectual understanding, will no longer crave what is the opposite of hard work. With the dissipation of craving, the fruit of equanimity arises effortlessly. Without developing this most basic quality of the path one cannot claim to be practicing Buddhism. Once equanimity is established, what is hard work or not hard work? What is the meaning of 'others' and 'not others'?

 

In the absence of understanding this truth of equanimity one cannot help but maintain a dualistic view, which in turn would yield the kind of belief that says practicing the Buddhist path is hard work, when in fact its simply nothing being done while doing what needs to be done, the actual principle behind the Heart Sutra, which fortunately you have quoted towards the end of your post (Form is emptiness/emptiness is form... remember?) 

[SeekerOfHealing]

Yes, but there is no enlightenment without bodhichitta in buddhist terms and we speaking here not nirodha/nibbana but Buddhahood (prajna paramita). Hard work is needed but when you develop the muscle with 12kg it will become light the more you use it so it is with bodhisattva path, the more weigh you can take with equanimity the more results of it will become. You need to hard work, hard practice and everything if you want succeed on buddhist path - there is no way around. If you can be like Nagarjuna sit in cave and free myriad sentient beings - okay, but keep it real base on your own experience without delusional judgement and imagination which is very important.

[C T]

Yes, but there is no enlightenment without bodhichitta in buddhist terms and we speaking here not nirodha/nibbana but Buddhahood (prajna paramita). Hard work is needed but when you develop the muscle with 12kg it will become light the more you use it so it is with bodhisattva path, the more weigh you can take with equanimity the more results of it will become. You need to hard work, hard practice and everything if you want succeed on buddhist path - there is no way around. If you can be like Nagarjuna sit in cave and free myriad sentient beings - okay, but keep it real base on your own experience without delusional judgement and imagination which is very important.

It seems my post was unclear to you, and i apologise. Thank you for the advice. 

[SeekerOfHealing]

I understand that point. Diamond Sutra speaks of it very clearly but do not rebuke helping others constantly even if there is no others and your mind dwells in dharmakaya reality cease to exists in blissful vapor of mind ground but the still things are going so you are not dwelling here and there but do myriad things here and there. It's generally not that complicated.

[Dharmakaya]

Hey Wells!  Why did you want to attain rainbow body? 

[Brian]

A curious juxtaposition, I think...

[Wells]

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Edited March 2, 2017 by Wells

[Jeff]

Why does one want to become a complete buddha?

To escape suffering and to be able to do the same for others.

 

 

With the desire to escape suffering can one become a buddha?

[Wells]

.

Edited March 2, 2017 by Wells

[Jeff]

What was the motivation of the historical buddha?

From the Dhammapada - The True Master

 

Wanting nothing

With all your heart

Stop the stream.

When the world dissolves

Everything becomes clear.

Go beyond

This way or that way,

To the farther shore

Where the world dissolves

And everything becomes clear.

Beyond this shore

And the father shore,

Beyond the beyond,

Where there is no beginning,

No end.

Without fear, go.

Meditate.

Live purely.

Be quiet.

[Wells]

.

Edited March 2, 2017 by Wells

[MooNiNite]

its all wisdom and poems till john chang shoots electricity up your spine

[Jeff]

What I remember is that he went outside his "ivory tower",

saw all the suffering of the sick and old people,

understood that they were going to die eventually,

understood that life meant to suffer,

and decided to find a way out of all this suffering.

Here is what I remember from Buddha on suffering (and death)...

 

Whoever follows impure thoughts

Suffers in this world and the next.

In both worlds he suffers

And how greatly

When he sees the wrong he has done.

But whoever follows the dharma Is joyful here and joyful there.

In both worlds he rejoices

And how greatly

When he sees the good he has done.

For great is the harvest in this world,

And greater still in the next.

However many holy words you read,

However many you speak,

What good will they do you

If you do not act upon them?

Are you a shepherd

Who counts another man's sheep,

Never sharing the way?

Read as few words as you like,

And speak fewer.

But act upon the dharma.

Give up the old ways -

Passion, enmity, folly.

Know the truth and find peace.

Share the way.

 

-Dhammapada

[MooNiNite]

Buddha left his ivory tower and found balance with nature.

Edited December 13, 2016 by MooNiNite

[Dharmakaya]

Why does one want to become a complete buddha?

To escape suffering and to be able to do the same for others.

 

I'm enlightened you know..  I can tell you how I did it or answer questions.  PM me if you're interested.

[already]

Anybody achieved rainbow body since last year ?