Under Trump

[TheWhiteRabbit]

Oh, he's totally serious -- and he is taken seriously. Watch a few more of his videos on that YT channel (his "show" was recently renamed "The Resistance" in response to the election results, BTW) and then read a bit about him: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Olbermann

 

I used to watch his show as kind of a counter perspective.  After he became a whiny baby after the election I just never went back.

[Aetherous]

and he is taken seriously.

 

That's horrible.

[ralis]

On my estimation, they are generally good but for reasons why the polls also missed the predicted outcome.  the problem is, the issue just can't be discussed reasonably so folks will have to just wait and see and judge later.

 

 

I hear you and that is an interesting issue he poses as his business interests are all over the world.  I think this kind of issue was never foreseen and somewhere there needs to be a reasonable understanding that the original founders would not of owned business interests around the world but that is a reality now.

 

Read the emolument clause (Article 1 Section 9) which is clear cut. Further, the STOCK Act applies in this case.

 

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/112/s2038/text/enr#link=2_3&nearest=H0762DE0DEFAA4A4FB8A761ED1E6CF0E8

Edited December 15, 2016 by ralis

[Brian]

Read the emolument clause (Article 1 Section 9) which is clear cut. Further, the STOCK Act applies in this case.

 

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/112/s2038/text/enr#link=2_3&nearest=H0762DE0DEFAA4A4FB8A761ED1E6CF0E8

Section 6. Section 9 is about restrictions o Congress.

 

The so-called Emoluments Clause reads:

 

"No Senator or Representative shall, during the Time for which he was elected, be appointed to any civil Office under the Authority of the United States, which shall have been created, or the Emoluments whereof shall have been increased during such time; and no Person holding any Office under the United States, shall be a Member of either House during his Continuance in Office."

 

This would apply to Trump only if he were going to be a member of Congress while serving as President.

 

(Hence my earlier post...)

[ralis]

Section 6. Section 9 is about restrictions o Congress.

 

The so-called Emoluments Clause reads:

 

"No Senator or Representative shall, during the Time for which he was elected, be appointed to any civil Office under the Authority of the United States, which shall have been created, or the Emoluments whereof shall have been increased during such time; and no Person holding any Office under the United States, shall be a Member of either House during his Continuance in Office."

 

This would apply to Trump only if he were going to be a member of Congress while serving as President.

 

(Hence my earlier post...)

 

http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/tocs/a1_9_8.html

 

 

No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States: And no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under them, shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince or foreign State.

 

I watched an interview with both ethics lawyers from the Bush and Obama administrations and the conclusion both presented is that Trump will be in violation of this clause when sworn in office.

Edited December 15, 2016 by ralis

[ralis]

https://thinkprogress.org/trump-poised-to-violate-constitution-his-first-day-in-office-george-w-bushs-ethics-lawyer-says-73e14789a935#.bx7pty7go

 

 

 

The diplomats’ efforts in seek Trump’s favor by staying in his hotel “looks like a gift,” Painter told ThinkProgress in an email, and thus is the very kind of favor the Constitution seeks to prevent.

 

 

There’s a catch, however, for someone like Trump who trades on the value of his own name. “Anything in excess of fair market value is a gift,” according to Painter, “and I don’t think you can take into account the value of the name Trump in calculating fair market value.” The diplomats are not staying in one of Trump’s expensive luxury hotels because Trump is charging their nation a reasonable market rate for a night’s stay. They are staying in the hotel because of the added value that comes from doing business with the President of the United States.

“It had better stop by January 20,” says Painter.

[Brian]

http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/tocs/a1_9_8.html

 

 

No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States: And no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under them, shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince or foreign State.

 

I watched an interview with both ethics lawyers from the Bush and Obama administrations and the conclusion both presented is that Trump will be in violation of this clause when sworn in office.

Ah, yes! The Title of Nobility Clause. I've always thought it should apply to the title of First Lady...

 

That would apply if Trump received payment from a foreign state for services rendered while in Office, just as it would apply to the Clintons receiving $30+ million for authorizing the Uranium 1 deal while Secretary of State.

 

Of course, one is a hypothetical future possibility while the other is an actual historical fact but this thread isn't about Hillary.

[ralis]

Ah, yes! The Title of Nobility Clause. I've always thought it should apply to the title of First Lady...

 

That would apply if Trump received payment from a foreign state for services rendered while in Office, just as it would apply to the Clintons receiving $30+ million for authorizing the Uranium 1 deal while Secretary of State.

 

Of course, one is a hypothetical future possibility while the other is an actual historical fact but this thread isn't about Hillary.

 

 

Trump is promoting his business interests on a daily basis and will not change one bit. Let's see if he sells the Washington Hotel before January 20th. BTW, the lease is with the government and the terms are precisely clear.

[Brian]

Trump is promoting his business interests on a daily basis and will not change one bit. Let's see if he sells the Washington Hotel before January 20th. BTW, the lease is with the government and the terms are precisely clear.

Yeah, the entanglement is disturbing. Congress could just pass a resolution granting permission (per the Constitution) but I think that would be a very bad idea. The concept of "brand equity" is a legitimate one but I doubt a significant mark-up for the Trump name could be justified -- the rate would have to be comparable to other luxury hotels in the same marketplace and even then it raises the question of the appearance of impropriety regardless of whether there's anything unethical happening behind the scenes. The appearance of ethical violation is itself generally viewed as an ethical violation. (This has always been part of the Clintons' problem which they've always approached from an entirely legalistic perspective.)

 

Personally, I don't get the impression that Trump is a particularly ethics-oriented man so I won't be surprised if he tries to take a legalistic approach here, which I think will blow up in his face like a loaded cigar. What he should do, in my opinion, is carve out a few tens or hundreds of millions for himself which is placed in a blind trust, keep a few hard assets as he wishes (but strictly domestic) and divest himself of everything else. If his children continue to participate in the business, they should not play any role, formal or otherwise, in governance or policy and the business should adopt a strict policy of not doing business with foreign governments or their agents or proxies -- not because doing so would be illegal but because it presents the appearance of impropriety.

 

Honestly, I think he should have begun liquidation of the Trump family business and put all funds in a blind trust for the duration of the his Administration but there's no bright line to be drawn regarding the financial activities of his children beyond ordinary legal boundaries so the issue would still be a hot button for those looking to make political hay. This has applied to every other Federal office holder, though, and has never been a major issue before that I recollect...

Edited December 15, 2016 by Brian

[MooNiNite]

this is pretty funny

 

[mvingon]

 

Thanks for that! I'm pretty sure there's a way to work with what is not yet manifest, on a global or multiversal scale, but I've not found it, to date. After years and years of practice, I'm only just beginning to comprehend working with what is not yet manifest, in my personal life. I don't mean I can't do it, I mean there are dominant and latent effects, and I'm just now becoming keenly aware that, even in working within my personal reason of that which is not can have serious and unexpected repercussions! I was told, some years ago, that I'm protected, by a voodouin person. It's a good thing; I can not begin to imagine the personal destruction I may have wreaked, in my own life, beyond what I already have, without some protection from myself!

 

On a national, global, or multiversal level, where repercussions affect everyone and everything, not just me, personally, I think I'm better off working with what is, and leaving what is not yet up to those more wise and experienced with me. The sages, if you prefer.

[Brian]

Thought this old article was interesting:

 

https://panampost.com/steve-hecht/2015/11/11/character-assassination-of-guatemalas-new-president-falls-flat

[mvingon]

Monkey see, monkey do, eh? Honestly, if most Americans had any idea what the government does, in our names, with taxpayer dollars, in order to toss us cheap crap, in lieu of actual liberty, there may have been a revolt before the Spanish-American war. It amuses me that a coveted journalistic prize was named after Pulitzer. Wiki can tell you more about that.

 

And I've used up my posting quota for a while. OT: what time zone is default for this forum? Thanks.

[MooNiNite]

"Facebook to Work with Outside Editors to Flag Fake News 

Facebook has promised to crack down on fake news by using third-party fact-checking editors. Working with five media organizations, including Snopes and Factcheck.org, Facebook will label fake news as "disputed" and demote stories in the news feed.—VICE"

 

 

wow facebook is working with SNopes to label fake news. Such garbage. 

[MooNiNite]

Obama Vows Retaliation for Russian Election Hacking
In an interview with NPR, President Obama said the US will "take action" against Russia for interfering in the presidential election. "Some of it may be explicit and publicized; some of it may not be," said Obama. "Mr. Putin is well aware of my feelings about this, because I spoke to him directly about it." US intelligence officials concluded Russia was behind the DNC hacks months ago, and Obama has ordered a full report to be completed before he leaves office on January 20.—NPR News

 

 

THis is also garbage. We need to get Obama out of office as soon as possible... 

[MooNiNite]

Obama is claiming no foreign country should interfere with elections while Hillary was givin millions for her campaign from middle eastern countries.

[ralis]

Obama Vows Retaliation for Russian Election Hacking

In an interview with NPR, President Obama said the US will "take action" against Russia for interfering in the presidential election. "Some of it may be explicit and publicized; some of it may not be," said Obama. "Mr. Putin is well aware of my feelings about this, because I spoke to him directly about it." US intelligence officials concluded Russia was behind the DNC hacks months ago, and Obama has ordered a full report to be completed before he leaves office on January 20.—NPR News

 

 

THis is also garbage. We need to get Obama out of office as soon as possible... 

 

I guess you just can't wait for Trump to be sworn in. Don't come crying when this guy turns out to be the opposite of what you are wishing for.

[MooNiNite]

I guess you just can't wait for Trump to be sworn in. Don't come crying when this guy turns out to be the opposite of what you are wishing for.

 

You have zero logic 

[MooNiNite]

I guess you just can't wait for Trump to be sworn in. Don't come crying when this guy turns out to be the opposite of what you are wishing for.

 

Your OBAMA did nothing but ruin our country, but yet you still think he and Hillary are actually fit to lead. All of their policies are garbage and only further enslave people. 

[MooNiNite]

Has anyone brought forth legitimate proof that Putin was behind Podesta's emails being stolen?

 

There were hundreds of computer hackers around the world trying to help Trump, doesn't mean Putin was behind it, it just means people want to stand up against a corrupt and enslaving political agenda. 

[ralis]

Your OBAMA did nothing but ruin our country, but yet you still think he and Hillary are actually fit to lead. All of their policies are garbage and only further enslave people. 

 

In what way did he ruin this country? Your post is unfounded in that you believe that I support Hillary and Obama. If you would read my posts correctly as opposed to making broad assumptions, I am only discussing Trump. 

[Aetherous]

"I think there is no doubt that when any foreign government tries to impact the integrity of our elections ... we need to take action. And we will — at a time and place of our own choosing. Some of it may be explicit and publicized; some of it may not be." - Obama's fighting words

 

Can't wait til he's gone. America voted against this WW3 with Russia nonsense.

[ralis]

You have zero logic 

 

 

That is a personal attack in case you haven't read the rules of behavior here. Further, why not discuss as opposed to an angry post?

Edited December 16, 2016 by ralis

[Brian]

Obama is claiming no foreign country should interfere with elections while Hillary was givin millions for her campaign from middle eastern countries.

It would be amusing to see a journalist ask him about his involvement in elections in Israel, Canada and Honduras (probably others, too, but I know of those for sure...)

[Brian]

Any of this sound familiar???

 

1. A strong, centralized government.

2. An executive arm growing at the expense of the legislative and judicial arms.

3. The control of banking, credit and security exchanges by the government.

4. The underwriting of employment by the government, either through armaments or public works.

5. The underwriting of social security by the government – old-age pensions, mothers' pensions, unemployment insurance, and the like.

6. The underwriting of food, housing, and medical care, by the government.

7. The use of deficit spending to finance these underwritings.

8. The abandonment of gold in favor of managed currencies.

9. The control of foreign trade by the government.

10. The control of natural resources.

11. The control of energy sources.

12. The control of transportation.

13. The control of agricultural production.

14. The control of labor organizations.

15. The enlistment of young men and women in youth corps devoted to health, discipline,community service and ideologies consistent with those of the authorities.

16. Heavy taxation, with special emphasis on the estates and incomes of the rich.

17. Control of industry without ownership.

18. State control of communications and propaganda.

 

 

"Why should the Soviets have all the fun remaking a world?" -- Stuart Chase