Under Trump

[ralis]

Any of this sound familiar???

 

1. A strong, centralized government.

2. An executive arm growing at the expense of the legislative and judicial arms.

3. The control of banking, credit and security exchanges by the government.

4. The underwriting of employment by the government, either through armaments or public works.

5. The underwriting of social security by the government – old-age pensions, mothers' pensions, unemployment insurance, and the like.

6. The underwriting of food, housing, and medical care, by the government.

7. The use of deficit spending to finance these underwritings.

8. The abandonment of gold in favor of managed currencies.

9. The control of foreign trade by the government.

10. The control of natural resources.

11. The control of energy sources.

12. The control of transportation.

13. The control of agricultural production.

14. The control of labor organizations.

15. The enlistment of young men and women in youth corps devoted to health, discipline,community service and ideologies consistent with those of the authorities.

16. Heavy taxation, with special emphasis on the estates and incomes of the rich.

17. Control of industry without ownership.

18. State control of communications and propaganda.

 

 

"Why should the Soviets have all the fun remaking a world?" -- Stuart Chase

 

 

In what way does this fit with the discussion at hand? Or, is this another anti-communist Alinsky rant?

[mvingon]

I... I'm just stunned, by some of the posts, here. In primary or secondary school, most American students over the age of 30 should have received some sort of instruction on identifying credible news sources, which, since the media has been propaganda for decades, is a little more difficult now. But it's still pretty easy to Google for confirmation, fact checking. For instance, if one goggles "Obama right of Reagan," there are innumerable sources, fact checks, for that term. Sane with "trickle down economics," etcetera. I'll point out the burden of proof is on the claimant, UNLESS a stated view is held as a common reality, by most. I'll also add that extraordinary claims, like "pizzagate" require extraordinary proof. Wiki has an excellent article, debunking satanic ritual abuse. Not saying some sickos don't make up an excuse that creates what they think is plausible deniability, but that doesn't make it real. The devil doesn't make anyone do anything. That's either our own organic or circumstantial deviations from the norm. Also, there is a difference between "normative" and "normal." For example, in my region, substance abuse is normative, but by no stretch of the imagination is considered normal, except by the uneducated and willfully ignorant. Also, correlation does not imply causation. It can, but doesn't always. Finally, the singular of data is not anecdote. Anecdotal evidence can be used as a starting point, if there are enough in common with multiple anecdotes from various sources.

 

I'm sorry if this post offends anyone. My intent is only to help clear up common misperceptions.

[ralis]

I... I'm just stunned, by some of the posts, here. In primary or secondary school, most American students over the age of 30 should have received some sort of instruction on identifying credible news sources, which, since the media has been propaganda for decades, is a little more difficult now. But it's still pretty easy to Google for confirmation, fact checking. For instance, if one goggles "Obama right of Reagan," there are innumerable sources, fact checks, for that term. Sane with "trickle down economics," etcetera. I'll point out the burden of proof is on the claimant, UNLESS a stated view is held as a common reality, by most. I'll also add that extraordinary claims, like "pizzagate" require extraordinary proof. Wiki has an excellent article, debunking satanic ritual abuse. Not saying some sickos don't make up an excuse that creates what they think is plausible deniability, but that doesn't make it real. The devil doesn't make anyone do anything. That's either our own organic or circumstantial deviations from the norm. Also, there is a difference between "normative" and "normal." For example, in my region, substance abuse is normative, but by no stretch of the imagination is considered normal, except by the uneducated and willfully ignorant. Also, correlation does not imply causation. It can, but doesn't always. Finally, the singular of data is not anecdote. Anecdotal evidence can be used as a starting point, if there are enough in common with multiple anecdotes from various sources.

 

I'm sorry if this post offends anyone. My intent is only to help clear up common misperceptions.

 

Why not expand on this by pointing out specific posts in this thread. Several valid points are apropos e.g. pizzagate.

[ralis]

Monkey see, monkey do, eh? Honestly, if most Americans had any idea what the government does, in our names, with taxpayer dollars, in order to toss us cheap crap, in lieu of actual liberty, there may have been a revolt before the Spanish-American war. It amuses me that a coveted journalistic prize was named after Pulitzer. Wiki can tell you more about that.

 

And I've used up my posting quota for a while. OT: what time zone is default for this forum? Thanks.

 

 

I served in the military (5.5 years) during the Vietnam war and I have a very clear idea as to what the government does. The price paid by military personnel is absolutely horrific, both body and mind.

Edited December 16, 2016 by ralis

[Brian]

In what way does this fit with the discussion at hand? Or, is this another anti-communist Alinsky rant?

Rant? Was there anything even vaguely rant-like about my post? My reference predates Alinksky's Rules, BTW.

 

As to your insincere question about how this fits with the discussion at hand, I think the reasonably intelligent person should be able to fit the pieces together if he or she wants to. That interest is key, though.

[ralis]

Trump is behaving in a presidential manner with his recent Tweets criticizing Vanity Fair for a negative review about his restaurant in Trump Tower. Stay tuned for more after Jan. 20th.

[ralis]

Rant? Was there anything even vaguely rant-like about my post? My reference predates Alinksky's Rules, BTW.

 

As to your insincere question about how this fits with the discussion at hand, I think the reasonably intelligent person should be able to fit the pieces together if he or she wants to. That interest is key, though.

 

You have stated in the past that some here have trouble with your posts making sense. Appears to be a generalized narrative. If you were naming specific persons that would be appreciated.

[Brian]

What's that quote? "Elections have consequences"?

[Brian]

You have stated in the past that some here have trouble with your posts making sense. Appears to be a generalized narrative. If you were naming specific persons that would be appreciated.

My posts make sense to those for whom they are intended.

 

FWIW, ralis, I consider you to be more than reasonably intelligent.

[ralis]

What's that quote? "Elections have consequences"?

 

Of course! Tie in your multi point post with Trump's presidency.

[Brian]

Of course! Tie in your multi point post with Trump's presidency.

Tie it in yourself, ralis! How would you say the USA currently stands in regards to each of those points, in terms of current status and trajectory? How do you see Obama's presidency and Trump's future presidency impacting these proposed initiatives?

 

As I've said before, they are cut from the same cloth, just sewn into differently styled uniforms.

[ralis]

My posts make sense to those for whom they are intended.

 

FWIW, ralis, I consider you to be more than reasonably intelligent.

 

Some points can apply to Trump as well as Obama. By extension, many past presidents.

[Brian]

Some points can apply to Trump as well as Obama. By extension, many past presidents.

Indeed! That's a good start...

[MooNiNite]

That is a personal attack in case you haven't read the rules of behavior here. Further, why not discuss as opposed to an angry post?

its not a personal attack. You wrote this:

 

"I guess you just can't wait for Trump to be sworn in. Don't come crying when this guy turns out to be the opposite of what you are wishing for."

 

Which has no logic behind it or reasoning

[MooNiNite]

In what way did he ruin this country? Your post is unfounded in that you believe that I support Hillary and Obama. If you would read my posts correctly as opposed to making broad assumptions, I am only discussing Trump. 

 

are you kidding? It is hard to find an aspect of our country that has gotten better since obama. 

[ralis]

Tie it in yourself, ralis! How would you say the USA currently stands in regards to each of those points, in terms of current status and trajectory? How do you see Obama's presidency and Trump's future presidency impacting these proposed initiatives?

 

As I've said before, they are cut from the same cloth, just sewn into differently styled uniforms.

 

 

I have seen the succession of presidents picking up where the preceding one left off. E.g. Obama's national security state has been expanded from what Bush set in place and I imagine Trump with his 'stop and frisk' will expand the state further. BTW, Rep. King is proposing a national registry for Muslims. Will we see a repeat of Japanese internment camps? Santa Fe had an internment camp which held 4500 prisoners which was a national disgrace!

[ralis]

Indeed! That's a good start...

 

Thanks! I am no fool when it comes to what is happening in this country. It appears that the machine is in control, at the same time out of control, with no one in the drivers seat.

[ralis]

its not a personal attack. You wrote this:

 

"I guess you just can't wait for Trump to be sworn in. Don't come crying when this guy turns out to be the opposite of what you are wishing for."

 

Which has no logic behind it or reasoning

 

You appear to support Trump and are welcoming him with open arms. Trump lies and contradicts himself every five minutes and if you voted for him then you have brought this on yourself.

[Brian]

Thanks! I am no fool when it comes to what is happening in this country. It appears that the machine is in control, at the same time out of control, with no one in the drivers seat.

Not without a plan, though...

 

Please read back over that 18-point list I posted. It is properly called "X" -- I call it "Project X"

[MooNiNite]

You appear to support Trump and are welcoming him with open arms. Trump lies and contradicts himself every five minutes and if you voted for him then you have brought this on yourself.

 

I think you are blind to the fact that Obama almost doubled the national debt. He was also putting troops around Russia and causing them to threaten war with us.

 

So yeah, nuclear ww3 and double our national debt. vs. Trump?

 

War with Russia and double our national debt and lower global education rankings?

[MooNiNite]

You appear to support Trump and are welcoming him with open arms. Trump lies and contradicts himself every five minutes and if you voted for him then you have brought this on yourself.

 

Do you have any logic or are you just a troll?

[MooNiNite]

You appear to support Trump and are welcoming him with open arms. Trump lies and contradicts himself every five minutes and if you voted for him then you have brought this on yourself.

 

That's hilarious. You clearly have a shoddy understanding of Trump.  

[MooNiNite]

You appear to support Trump and are welcoming him with open arms. Trump lies and contradicts himself every five minutes and if you voted for him then you have brought this on yourself.

 

I'll be waiting for your explanation how Double our national debt and war with Russia is better than a wall and lower taxes. 

[MooNiNite]

Im also curious how Obama/Hillary's plan even works for the economy?

 

High taxes on businesses and people, some how these companies are supposed to be competitive with the governments support?

 

So the government chooses which companies are the best and not the competition of the market place?

 

Im seriously concerned how your ideas for our country even make any logical sense.

 

What urge do US companies even have to be revolutionary and innovative, to have spirit, in the world market place if a higher government is crippling them and giving other "favored companies" payouts and advantages.

Are you familiar with the term "corruption"?

 

What about Obama supporting "fake news" censoring? You also want the government to decide what is true for you?

[MooNiNite]

The government cant even account for how it spent 6.5 trillion dollars. That's reasonable?!

https://www.rt.com/usa/356562-pentagon-account-trillion-audit/

 

How about the pentagon spending 500 million, just to lie to you?

 

http://www.salon.com/2016/10/03/u-s-paid-p-r-firm-540-million-to-make-fake-al-qaida-videos-in-iraq-propaganda-program/

 

Do you really need the government to hold your hand Ralis?