Under Trump

[ralis]

I'll be waiting for your explanation how Double our national debt and war with Russia is better than a wall and lower taxes. 

 

You assume much that has not yet occurred. Trump has used fear to a great extent and I will not be bullied by his use of it. Further, the Russian problem is a complex one, as opposed to simplistic as some propose and are welcome in another thread.

 

Trump wants to cut taxes and yet spend on national infrastructure, walls, military and so forth which will increase the debt.

Edited December 16, 2016 by ralis

[ralis]

The government cant even account for how it spent 6.5 trillion dollars. That's reasonable?!

https://www.rt.com/usa/356562-pentagon-account-trillion-audit/

 

How about the pentagon spending 500 million, just to lie to you?

 

http://www.salon.com/2016/10/03/u-s-paid-p-r-firm-540-million-to-make-fake-al-qaida-videos-in-iraq-propaganda-program/

 

Do you really need the government to hold your hand Ralis?

 

Cut out the condescending remarks about holding my hand. Where in the hell do you come up with this? Further, the Pentagon amount I believe is stated somewhat high on the Russian TV site you linked to. You will need to do better than that.

[ralis]

BTW, propaganda has been a part of the military industrial complex for decades and I guess long before you were born. No news to me.

[MooNiNite]

Cut out the condescending remarks about holding my hand. Where in the hell do you come up with this? Further, the Pentagon amount I believe is stated somewhat high on the Russian TV site you linked to. You will need to do better than that.

k im just blocking you. It is clear to me your input is not valuable for me. 

[ralis]

k im just blocking you. It is clear to me your input is not valuable for me. 

 

I guess you can't handle a spirited debate?

[MooNiNite]

I guess you can't handle a spirited debate?

yeah, that's it. 

[mvingon]

Ralis: you're not in denial, like a lot of vets. That's a good thing. Reality may stink, but it is what it is.

 

My first thoughts (but I'd reached my quota) about not pointing out individual posts, was, "Because everyone here can sort that for themselves." And they can. But willful obtuseness is what it is, and those who are into that aren't about to get their heads out of the sand, and see. They search for confirmation bias. Myself, if someone makes a claim that isn't obviously bogus, but also doesn't coincide with my personal perceptions, I will Google his claim, and look for confirmation or denial. That's the only way I, personally, have ever learned anything. If someone agrees with me, well, there's not much reason to seek.

 

But also, that's the moderators' jobs. I must admit, it confuses me that one member was suspended for pushing a point, but other members seem to be able to push points, ride roughshod with personal attacks, and push points without any validation of their points, whatsoever, but again, I'm not a mod, have no desire to be a mod, and am not yet accustomed to the norms here. Just saying it seems odd, to me.

[Brian]

You assume much that has not yet occurred. Trump has used fear to a great extent and I will not be bullied by his use of it. Further, the Russian problem is a complex one, as opposed to simplistic as some propose and are welcome in another thread.

 

Trump wants to cut taxes and yet spend on national infrastructure, walls, military and so forth which will increase the debt.

^^^<giggle>

[ralis]

Ralis: you're not in denial, like a lot of vets. That's a good thing. Reality may stink, but it is what it is.

 

My first thoughts (but I'd reached my quota) about not pointing out individual posts, was, "Because everyone here can sort that for themselves." And they can. But willful obtuseness is what it is, and those who are into that aren't about to get their heads out of the sand, and see. They search for confirmation bias. Myself, if someone makes a claim that isn't obviously bogus, but also doesn't coincide with my personal perceptions, I will Google his claim, and look for confirmation or denial. That's the only way I, personally, have ever learned anything. If someone agrees with me, well, there's not much reason to seek.

 

But also, that's the moderators' jobs. I must admit, it confuses me that one member was suspended for pushing a point, but other members seem to be able to push points, ride roughshod with personal attacks, and push points without any validation of their points, whatsoever, but again, I'm not a mod, have no desire to be a mod, and am not yet accustomed to the norms here. Just saying it seems odd, to me.

 

I attempt to see the present political issues in a historical context, behavioral tendencies i.e, speech, body language and so forth. I take seriously what Trump is saying on a daily basis along with his choices of cabinet/administration and nepotism by allowing his children and son in law to participate. Moreover, his business conflicts of interest are especially troubling in that he could be easily blackmailed by any number of groups and foreign governments.

 

It is difficult to be in denial after having served during Vietnam which was a shock for a small town (1200 population) person such as myself. Two guys from my hometown were KIA in Nam.

 

I would encourage everyone here to visit the Vietnam Memorial in D.C. I was there in 1986.

 

[ralis]

^^^<giggle>

 

I was referring to Trump's great wall which may never see the light of day.

 

[mvingon]

Ralis, you'd be surprised how many Nam vets I know, who don't seem to even remember My Lai, perhaps it's the brain self-defense mechanism of blocking out painful memories.

 

May I suggest it seems you're wasting precious energy here; no point talking to the deaf, signing to the blind, asking answers from the mute. Sorry, it is what it is. At any rate, it seems frustrating. I gave up trying to have this conversation with people in real life. I mean, here, at least, when people consider Alex Jones, Breitbart, Sean Hannity real news, Facebook fake news real news, and credible news sources fake news, do you really think facts are going to make one whit of difference?

 

I've yet to see a post mentioning China's recent reiteration of the one-China policy, and another Chinese news outlet calling to bring Taiwan under submission, by force. Yet it was all over the headlines, just my morning, today.

 

My heart quakes at the implications for the Taiwanese people, but perhaps they view it less ominously, than I do. I'd like to ask awaken's thoughts, but I'm not sure this is a topic she'd like to discuss. So I will say, if awaken is interested in sharing her thoughts, if sincerely appreciate her perspective. Maybe you and I view it differently than actual residents of Taiwan? I don't know.

 

I'm really glad I have access to the Guardian and Independent, der Spiegel, DW, and other news outlets. I'm not sure what I'd think, if I had to rely on Fox, CNN, NYT, etc. Not saying those organizations don't have some columnists who get it right, but they mostly abdicated journalistic integrity under G.W. Even CBS fired Dan Rather, for telling the truth about Iraq/WMD.

 

I'm wondering if anyone in this thread had given real politik, geopolitics, and indeed, politics, in general a serious, if even cursory, study. Putin knows real politik and geopolitics well. I'm getting familiar. Trump, I think, is Putin's useful idiot.

 

I'm sure this post will offend many, and if it does, I would urge you to research my words, before attacking the content of my post. Attack me ask you want, I don't care. But do some research from credible news sources, either way, please.

[MooNiNite]

Trump needs nothing from Putin. He won fair and square. Hillary has no spirit and was barely even on the campaign trail. Trump was doing 2-3 speeches per day and travelling the country.

 

He doesn't need anyone to hold his hand, let alone Putin. 

 

Secondly Trump has studied the geopolitics extensively. He didn't walk into his presidential campaign without being prepared. If you watch any of his interviews about the middle east situation he can hold his own and is well informed. 

[ralis]

Ralis, you'd be surprised how many Nam vets I know, who don't seem to even remember My Lai, perhaps it's the brain self-defense mechanism of blocking out painful memories.

 

May I suggest it seems you're wasting precious energy here; no point talking to the deaf, signing to the blind, asking answers from the mute. Sorry, it is what it is. At any rate, it seems frustrating. I gave up trying to have this conversation with people in real life. I mean, here, at least, when people consider Alex Jones, Breitbart, Sean Hannity real news, Facebook fake news real news, and credible news sources fake news, do you really think facts are going to make one whit of difference?

 

I've yet to see a post mentioning China's recent reiteration of the one-China policy, and another Chinese news outlet calling to bring Taiwan under submission, by force. Yet it was all over the headlines, just my morning, today.

 

My heart quakes at the implications for the Taiwanese people, but perhaps they view it less ominously, than I do. I'd like to ask awaken's thoughts, but I'm not sure this is a topic she'd like to discuss. So I will say, if awaken is interested in sharing her thoughts, if sincerely appreciate her perspective. Maybe you and I view it differently than actual residents of Taiwan? I don't know.

 

I'm really glad I have access to the Guardian and Independent, der Spiegel, DW, and other news outlets. I'm not sure what I'd think, if I had to rely on Fox, CNN, NYT, etc. Not saying those organizations don't have some columnists who get it right, but they mostly abdicated journalistic integrity under G.W. Even CBS fired Dan Rather, for telling the truth about Iraq/WMD.

 

I'm wondering if anyone in this thread had given real politik, geopolitics, and indeed, politics, in general a serious, if even cursory, study. Putin knows real politik and geopolitics well. I'm getting familiar. Trump, I think, is Putin's useful idiot.

 

I'm sure this post will offend many, and if it does, I would urge you to research my words, before attacking the content of my post. Attack me ask you want, I don't care. But do some research from credible news sources, either way, please.

 

I keep myself apprised on the China situation and the recent theft of the US Navy's unmanned research sub by the Chinese Navy. The South China Sea is a hotspot of contention given that international waters are in dispute. It appears that Trump has inflamed the situation with his phone call to Taiwan and subsequent statements regarding a one China policy. Trump has not demonstrated that he understands diplomacy, in the least.

Edited December 16, 2016 by ralis

[mvingon]

Trump needs nothing from Putin. He won fair and square. Hillary has no spirit and was barely even on the campaign trail. Trump was doing 2-3 speeches per day and travelling the country.

 

He doesn't need anyone to hold his hand, let alone Putin. 

 

Secondly Trump has studied the geopolitics extensively. He didn't walk into his presidential campaign without being prepared. If you watch any of his interviews about the middle east situation he can hold his own and is well informed.

 

You're making the claim, and it is not widely recognized as a common reality. Therefore, proof?

[idquest]

There are two separate issues:

1) Trump's victory - is it legitimate or not

2) Whether Putin interfered into USA election

 

Most mass media manage to mix these two separate issues up; and by doing this they try to de-legitimize Trump's victory. Even Obama admits that Trump's victory is legitimate.

 

As for Putin's interference - I'm pretty sure that Putin's actions resulted from an insult that HRC cast at him when she called Putin 'a second Hitler'. That was a deep insult for somebody like Putin, from that generation; and with his formative years being very close in time to post-war period in Europe when memory of WWII was raw.

[ralis]

There are two separate issues:

1) Trump's victory - is it legitimate or not

2) Whether Putin interfered into USA election

 

Most mass media manage to mix these two separate issues up; and by doing this they try to de-legitimize Trump's victory. Even Obama admits that Trump's victory is legitimate.

 

As for Putin's interference - I'm pretty sure that Putin's actions resulted from an insult that HRC cast at him when she called Putin 'a second Hitler'. That was a deep insult for somebody like Putin, from that generation; and with his formative years being very close in time to post-war period in Europe when memory of WWII was raw.

 

It is Hillary's fault again? Proof? Please move on from this unfounded accusation.

[mvingon]

There are two separate issues:

1) Trump's victory - is it legitimate or not

2) Whether Putin interfered into USA election

 

Most mass media manage to mix these two separate issues up; and by doing this they try to de-legitimize Trump's victory. Even Obama admits that Trump's victory is legitimate.

 

As for Putin's interference - I'm pretty sure that Putin's actions resulted from an insult that HRC cast at him when she called Putin 'a second Hitler'. That was a deep insult for somebody like Putin, from that generation; and with his formative years being very close in time to post-war period in Europe when memory of WWII was raw.

Proof? Just this morning, from a credible news source, Obama was saying, as well as some states elections boards, that there is definite evidence that Russia was involved in hacking the vote. Interestingly, some IP addresses belonged to dhs? CIA? I don't remember. Note there are possibilities for the domestic IP addresses showing up in access logs: 1. There were domestic state actors, 2. IP/MAC addresses are supposedly easy to spoof, from my limited understanding, 3. If security was breached, by domestic or foreign actors, and said across were remotely accessing said machines, then naturally those addresses would show up.

 

I'm sorry, but I have limited posts, and I'm simply not going to waste any more on outrageous claims without legitimate proof. This is quantifiable, qualifiable, falsifiable data, here, not esoteric studies, so again, you're making the claims, without one iota of verifiable proof.

 

Now I'm not stupid, our government lies to us all the time, but you're going to have to do better than "proof" from Alex Jones or some other "alt-right" (henceforth I'll call it what it is, white male supremacy) before I waste anymore time on such nonsense. I don't mean to be rude, but holy smokes, enough is enough, and with things that are testable, in the logical realm, I intend to keep my energy, sanity, and limited posts for things that are important to me, rather than trying to convince the willfully blind.

[Aetherous]

There is no credible news source, only true or false information. Either can come from anywhere.

[Brian]

There is no credible news source, only true or false information. Either can come from anywhere.

Careful or you'll end up on the Group W bench!

[Aetherous]

Careful or you'll end up on the Group W bench!

That went over my head.

[mvingon]

Yes. And remembering your logic video, the percentage chance of credible news coming from a credible source is much higher than it coming from Alex Jones or Breitbart. Or as the old adage goes, "Even a broken clock is right, twice a day."

[Aetherous]

Yes. And remembering your logic video, the percentage chance of credible news coming from a credible source is much higher than it coming from Alex Jones or Breitbart. Or as the old adage goes, "Even a broken clock is right, twice a day."

I've found the opposite to be true, actually.

[Brian]

That went over my head.

Sorry! Strictly speaking, it's a reference to the "moral waiver" regulation the US military began using in the 60s to allow them to draft people who otherwise would have been disqualified: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_waiver

 

I was using it, though, in the context of the Alice's Restaurant story, in which it was where the Army parked the dregs of society -- the mother rapers and father stabbers and father rapers and all kinds of mean nasty terrible people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m57gzA2JCcM

 

It's shorthand for the government's list of deplorables...

[ralis]

I've found the opposite to be true, actually.

Alex Jones edits video to create the big lie! It was very obvious given the sloppy editing.

[ralis]

Watching 'The Man in the High Castle' on Amazon. Excellent drama regarding the dangerous nature of propaganda and the damage to millions of lives. The propaganda was based on a few films. Based on a novel by Philip K. Dick.

 

Addendum;

 

The series deeply delves into fascism and authoritarianism.

Edited December 17, 2016 by ralis