Lower Dan Tien Question

[RiverSnake]

If using trees for grounding: plants do have emotional responses and memories. If you collect their energy for special methods, you are robbing them of their life essence for your self-interest. When you are doing this you are injuring a life form and building up negative karma. So, most orthodox schools of Qi-gong utterly forbid methods of plant energy gathering, as some techniques are deisirable and some are immoral! Understand the differences and draw the distinctions between them. Be aware that gathering and collecting energy from another living being is stealing and the usurper will loose virtue by doing this!

Although, orthodox Qi-gong schools do advocate energy interchange and exchange between humans and plants that have a vast storage, such as trees. Exchanging energy while practicing Qi-gong under trees, such as pine trees, in the prime of their lives or in the prime of the trees life is very healthy for people. Different trees will give off different energies. Some are too yang or harbor an energy that may exacerbate the issue and will therefore be unhealthy for the practitioner! If you are looking to cool your heat built up, look into evergreen arbors for their water nature.

Trees are also divided into five categories related to the five elements theory. So, in order to correctly exchange energy with a tree we must know the root issue to exchange with the right family of tree. So, basically, the trees energy will adjust the function of the corresponding internal organ that is creating the imbalance.

So, your dan tien is 'full' and it's spilling out into the meridian channels. You're in for a ride now! Be careful with medications. The activated Qi does not like opiates, tooth medication will have serious side effects well after the use of them. So, take care of your body. Damaging it and repairing it will take on a different level energetically.

 

 

I've meditated with many different trees, in all circumstances the trees grew stronger and healthier from the exchange. If your "taking" energy then i agree it may be harmful to the tree...i've never worked with this technique and don't really see the advantage of doing so. 

 

It's always been a balanced exchange of circulating and refining energy. Trees want to help you as we by our nature have a parasympathetic relationship. Nor have i ever had a feeling of being harmed by an exchange with a tree....in building a relationship through practicing internal work you will find the right tree for you to practice with....the path finds a way.  

[sillybearhappyhoneyeater]

Everyone's body reacts differently and Qi may move differently for you than it does for other people.  Most people experience heat in the dantian and then qi movement in the du mai, but some people have qi go to their whole bodies, and others have qi go to their legs.  The eventual goal is to have the qi to go everywhere though and suffuse all the meridians and vessels.

 

One word of caution though, make sure you don't use too much heat of intention during practice.  You should always aim to remain as open and clear as possible.  Focus on quiet and calm and let the breath soothe your mind.   Huang Yuanji argued that Laozi's passage "maximize emptiness and maintain reverent silence" meant that you should focus on emptying the mind and cultivating a quiet, calm breathing.  Remember that the spirit and the breath are meant to mix together, so forcing the dantian may seem to work at first, but it is better for you to work gradually and silently if you can.

[Lee]

Everyone's body reacts differently and Qi may move differently for you than it does for other people.  Most people experience heat in the dantian and then qi movement in the du mai, but some people have qi go to their whole bodies, and others have qi go to their legs.  The eventual goal is to have the qi to go everywhere though and suffuse all the meridians and vessels.

 

One word of caution though, make sure you don't use too much heat of intention during practice.  You should always aim to remain as open and clear as possible.  Focus on quiet and calm and let the breath soothe your mind.   Huang Yuanji argued that Laozi's passage "maximize emptiness and maintain reverent silence" meant that you should focus on emptying the mind and cultivating a quiet, calm breathing.  Remember that the spirit and the breath are meant to mix together, so forcing the dantian may seem to work at first, but it is better for you to work gradually and silently if you can.

 

When i work with meditation, i never go into it with an intent of experience. I simply follow my rules of regulation and then the experiences happen. In the sense of forcing, this is not something that i do, however i do use the mind to become stuck in the correct place of interest. 

 

In terms of the heat, i was yet to know that this was going to happen until i experienced it for myself, after that i did some searching and found out what it was. This was achieved through a deep state of calm but yet alert of the area of interest. rather than trying to develop for the experience i seem to practice with an open mind of what i may or may not experience. 

 

At the beginning of my training i was told nothing about what the energy feels like and was told that i should not know until i experience it, because the ego mind can be so powerful that it may create a false experience.

 

I do seem to have much success with being able to feel what is happening due to the lengths i go to in my preparation of the practice, i see many people practicing meditation for hours and hours with no results and the reason i put it down to is expectation of what will be experienced. During my practice i will spend on average of 30 minutes regulating my mind, body, breathing and then i will use my awareness to drift into the area of interest for that practice and spend on average 5-10 minutes cultivating. 

[Lee]

I come here to introduce the right way.

 

My English is poor.

 

If you do not mind, I could guide you as possible as I can.

 

The right principles is more important than methods.

 

The only way to reach pre heaven is wu Wei.

 

No methods, no breath skills, only some rules.

 

Ying yang, 鉛汞，water fire,etc

 

Thank you i will be in touch over the next few days, i really appreciate the help

[Lee]

I've meditated with many different trees, in all circumstances the trees grew stronger and healthier from the exchange. If your "taking" energy then i agree it may be harmful to the tree...i've never worked with this technique and don't really see the advantage of doing so. 

 

It's always been a balanced exchange of circulating and refining energy. Trees want to help you as we by our nature have a parasympathetic relationship. Nor have i ever had a feeling of being harmed by an exchange with a tree....in building a relationship through practicing internal work you will find the right tree for you to practice with....the path finds a way.

 

Thank you for the heads up  

 

I have wondered before that if one is to take energy from the surroundings, but at the end of practice provide the area with old energy, wouldn't that energy just be replenished into fresh energy that an then be used up by the plant life ect?

 

In order to prevent taking energy from things such as tree, would a specific things need to be done or can this be voided through intent alone?

[RiverSnake]

Thank you for the heads up

 

I have wondered before that if one is to take energy from the surroundings, but at the end of practice provide the area with old energy, wouldn't that energy just be replenished into fresh energy that an then be used up by the plant life ect?

 

In order to prevent taking energy from things such as tree, would a specific things need to be done or can this be voided through intent alone?

 

 

This topic can get unnecessarily complicated.....because the barrier between self and other is thinner than we think. We draw energy from everything all the time. Sun, Water, animals, plants....etc. Life consumes life in order to continually perpetuate itself....Lion Kings circle of life. Additionally we can draw energy from the cosmos, the earth and sky. Some systems of qigong and magick specialize in this. 

 

But in context of this topic of working with trees, that kind of transgressive attitude of "taking" energy is not appropriate and quite rude IMO.  Approach trees and plants with an attitude of openness and joy and your awareness on the LDT. The path will guide you the rest of the way. 

Edited November 25, 2016 by OldWolf

[awaken]

The entrences of Qi are two hands, two feet, head, heart.

 

Through these entrences, the Qi of our body can interchange with the surrounding.

 

A good tree is very powerful.

 

Not only tree, the sun is more powerful.

 

There are many kinds of Qi from nature.

 

五行之氣 the Qi of five elements

 

金氣gold Qi

From rock, especially mountain caves

 

木氣tree Qi

From tree, different trees have different Qi

 

水氣water Qi

From water, especially waterfall, the mountain stream

 

火氣fire qi

From the sun

 

土氣earth Qi

From the earth, human' body is, too.

 

If you have opened all the entrances, you call feel what is the differences between these Qi

 

And also you call feel different persons's Qi

 

The entrance of heart is the most difficult one to be opened.

 

Deep in samadhi is the way to open it.

[Bruce Qi]

cant see how I made a mistake when I am just quoting the title of a book ?

You obvious misunderstand the full moon.

Unless you reach there, you will not really know what is full moon.

I met many Chinese told me that they saw full moon.

But after I ask them about the details, it is not full moon.

It is 兔髓

You made the same mistake with them.

I hope you will understand where is you mistake.

But if you don't have a real mater, it is very hard for you to know.


兔髓 looks like full moon.
But they are totally different.

If you don't reach them all, it is impossible for you to know what is the difference between them.

I tell you this and hope you don't make the mistake again.

Post heaven is totally different from pre heaven.

Almost all teachers think they know, but they don't know.

Pre heaven can not be told, but only be achieved.



So many times, I heard people misunderstand 兔髓 and full moon.

They misunderstand post and pre heaven, too.

[awaken]

I don't limit the areas.

 

Maybe my English is too poor to express the thoughts.

 

Maybe I use the wrong words. I don't know.

 

What I said is the 外氣與內氣的交換出入口

 

手心勞宮穴，腳掌心湧泉穴，頭頂開頂，中丹田開心竅

 

Maybe some people who can use the right English can translate for me. Thank you.

 

And these entrances are different from three dan tain.

 

Dan tian is not the entrance of our body.

 

It is the source of dan.

 

The three energy centers is the 作用區 of 玄關

 

There is only one 玄關一竅

因為玄關一竅是第三眼接收中脈與天地之交流的出入口

It's a hole. Look like a hole. A hole in the dark.

But after the 中脈 is opened completely, the hole will fill of light.

 

玄關一竅is different from 勞宮穴，湧泉，開頂，心竅

 

I hope that you can practice the same way with me-wu way.

 

Or it's really hard to explain these nouns 作用

[awaken]

cant see how I made a mistake when I am just quoting the title of a book ?

Dan dao can not only be understood by books.

 

We need to practice to prove the book is right or wrong.

 

Obviously, the writer who only know full moon does not know full moon.

 

If he know the difference between 兔髓 and full moon, maybe I will consider he know something.

Edited November 26, 2016 by awaken

[Taoist Texts]

The entrences of Qi are two hands, two feet, head, heart.

 

Through these entrences, the Qi of our body can interchange with the surrounding.

 

A good tree is very powerful.

 

Not only tree, the sun is more powerful.

 

There are many kinds of Qi from nature.

阳里阴精质不刚，独修一物转赢丁 劳形按引皆非道，服气餐霞总是狂。

[Wu Ming Jen]

The clear full moon reflects in all bodies of water. The real moon is not two. The real body is not one or two. The real body has no location yet fills all spaces. Like space it is boundless.

[idquest]

cant see how I made a mistake when I am just quoting the title of a book ?

 

Perhaps people would understand you better if you used standard English rather that simplified english? The standard version has capitalized letters and punctuation marks in it. You may save some time using a simplified version but fail to get you idea across to non-native users.

[idquest]

I don't limit the areas.

 

Maybe my English is too poor to express the thoughts.

 

Maybe I use the wrong words. I don't know.

 

What I said is the 外氣與內氣的交換出入口

 

手心勞宮穴，腳掌心湧泉穴，頭頂開頂，中丹田開心竅

 

Maybe some people who can use the right English can translate for me. Thank you.

 

And these entrances are different from three dan tain.

 

Dan tian is not the entrance of our body.

 

It is the source of dan.

 

The three energy centers is the 作用區 of 玄關

 

There is only one 玄關一竅

因為玄關一竅是第三眼接收中脈與天地之交流的出入口

It's a hole. Look like a hole. A hole in the dark.

But after the 中脈 is opened completely, the hole will fill of light.

 

玄關一竅is different from 勞宮穴，湧泉，開頂，心竅

 

I hope that you can practice the same way with me-wu way.

 

Or it's really hard to explain these nouns 作用

 

Your English is very good and you choose correct words. And I enjoy your posts!

[MooNiNite]

its actually not always good that the dan tien heats up. if it gets too hot, you will be in danger. 

 

just a little advice

[awaken]

阳里阴精质不刚，独修一物转赢丁 劳形按引皆非道，服气餐霞总是狂。[/size]

Yes

 

鉛汞is the key point.

 

http://www.taolibrary.com/category/category86/c86038.htm

 

咽津納氣是人行，有藥方能造化生。鼎內若無真種子，猶將水火煮空鐺。

 

The place we practice is very important.

 

Outdoor is better than indoor.

 

If you can feel the Qi, you will know it.

 

You will choose the better place to practice.

 

先且觀天明五賊，次須察地以安民。民安國富當求戰，戰罷方能見聖人

 

天時，地利，人和

 

If we want to progress in dan dao, choosing better place and time can feel different.

Edited November 26, 2016 by awaken

[shazlor]

Maybe some people who can use the right English can translate for me. Thank you.

 

And these entrances are different from three dan tain.

 

Dan tian is not the entrance of our body.

 

It is the source of dan.

 

The three energy centers is the 作用區 Effect area of 玄關 Entrance

There is only one 玄關一竅  Entrance know nothing 

因為玄關一竅是第三眼接收中脈與天地之交流的出入口

But after the 中脈 Midrib is opened completely, the hole will fill of light.

玄關一竅 Entrance know nothing is different from 勞宮穴 Lao Gong points，湧泉 Yongquan，開頂 Open the top，心竅 Heart awakened

I hope that you can practice the same way with me-wu way.

 

Or it's really hard to explain these nouns 作用 effect

 

I simply google translated this but I believe your meaning is quite clear. Full-moon, brilliant.

 

Thank-you for posting, Awaken. 

 

*

 

P.S - I am also reminded of Chang Po-tuans "Secret of Opening the Passes." pg124 'Vitality, Energy, Spirit. T.Cleary.'

[Lee]

thank you for the comments everyone. 

 

After much reading about a few things i have decided to do simple movement meditation, along with some breathing exercises and empty meditation for now until proper training. 

 

I plan to drive 140 miles per session day to join damo's school in london after xmas though as it's too much for now. 

 

screw learning heavy things at home with no supervision lol

[Maddie]

Something I've been wondering about lately concerning the three Dan Tiens. Aside from being store houses for jing, qi, and shen, do with have any other functions? such as psycho-emotional functions?

 

Also sort of related I've seen some posts lately discussing the different between Taoism and Buddhism in the energy work vs psychological work approach. Would this not be the same as working with qi vs working with shen?

[freeform]

3 hours ago, dmattwads said:

Aside from being store houses for jing, qi, and shen, do with have any other functions? such as psycho-emotional functions?

Sorry to answer with a question - but why do you think ‘psycho-emotional functions’ not an aspect of - or separate to jing/Qi/Shen? 
 

Or is the real question ‘are the Dantiens the same as the chakra?’  

[Maddie]

1 hour ago, freeform said:

Sorry to answer with a question - but why do you think ‘psycho-emotional functions’ not an aspect of - or separate to jing/Qi/Shen? 
 

Or is the real question ‘are the Dantiens the same as the chakra?’  

 

Oh I'm not saying I don't think psycho-emotional functions are not a part of jing, qi, shen, but I wonder what they are?

 

And no I do not think Dan Tiens are the same as chakras.

Edited January 27, 2021 by dmattwads

[freeform]

The middle Dantien is all about the psycho-emotional  

[Maddie]

15 minutes ago, freeform said:

The middle Dantien is all about the psycho-emotional  

 

Why then if I spend time on the upper dan tien do things get weird?

[freeform]

32 minutes ago, dmattwads said:

 

Why then if I spend time on the upper dan tien do things get weird?

The upper Dantien is seen as a sort of step-down transformer of ‘heaven’ into the ‘human’ realm. It’s not seen as the seat of the mind as it is in western thinking (the middle Dantien is)

 

So if you spend time with the upper Dantien it will most likely affect your perception of reality and consciousness  

[Maddie]

1 minute ago, freeform said:

The upper Dantien is seen as a sort of step-down transformer of ‘heaven’ into the ‘human’ realm. It’s not seen as the seat of the mind as it is in western thinking (the middle Dantien is)

 

So if you spend time with the upper Dantien it will most likely affect your perception of reality and consciousness  

 

Nice thanks, and the lower?