Buddhist View on Taoist Practices?

[damdao]

It's not against taoism - you just proved what is says being touchy and clinging to appearances. It's just explains taoism and it's difference to buddhism without personal attack.

 

I "just not proved anything" and it does not explain anything.

It is the normal rethoric about daoism being inferior and it is an attack (though not a personal one, of course):

 

 

The kind of skill these immortals develop is basically all right, but they get attached to it. They become totally engrossed in appearances. Because of that they have a hindrance. They feel they have to do things in a certain way. Because they have this hang-up, they cannot get completely out of the cycle of rebirth. They don't gain ultimate understanding and release

[Mudfoot]

Check out Shaolin history

Hakunin is not the only buddhist to get training from a daoist.

[SeekerOfHealing]

It's not attack it's explanation. You can see this clinging in attacks of Wu Liu Pai on others.

[Sudhamma]

The gaol of Buddhism is not the same as Daoism. The emphasis differs with Buddhism seeking Nibannic Bliss and cessation of samsaric existence, while Daoism, the attainment of immortality. Of the various Buddhist methods of meditation as taught by the Buddha (within the Theravaden tradition), none emphasized on sounds=emotions=organs (6 Sounds); the breathing meditation of the Buddhist is not the same as MCO. 

[sagebrush]

ok show me if you can an example in the tao de ching that makes reference to immortality.

 

because while I read it very fast I do not recall anything that my eyes read across immortality.

 

 

it is good to see that I do not go about things in logical conclusions.

 

and that Taoism is far from anything I understand nor know.

 

I study my back hillside yard, the interplay of creatures, branches, slices of night sky and clouds on sky in day.

I value moss, dried bramble and the way the earth offers up its bounty...weeds or flowers, ferns, the changing seasons changes....

[SeekerOfHealing]

You have MCO and other stuff in buddhist but they not speak of it as you would be cling to those experiences (you will have all those experiences if you properly cultivate but you just go thru them naturally) . Physical immortality is fake Dao. entering the Dao or seeing Tao = nibbana. yang shen is just consciousness in very solid qi-body which will dissolve anyway with eons and eons then you will need to go back to either higher realms or back to earth to cultivate again. Sorry, there is no other escape ten emptiness. You can of course cheat yourself and believe that attaining yang shen will make your consciousness live forver - but it's not possibile. Impermanent things will be impermanent. Yang shen is still limited stage. "Great emptiness" is the highest stage in neidan, but even high students do not know that stage.

Edited December 26, 2016 by SeekerOfHealing

[Sudhamma]

Dear Sagebrush, You may like to visit this site: http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/462678?journalCode=hr to address your question on the subject of Immortality in Daoism.

 

Dear SeekerOfHealing, Before the Buddha decided to end his existence on earth, he was asked by his chief retainer Ven. Ananda whether there was anything that was not taught to him. The answer was no. One could check all the suttas and sutras of both traditions for dhamma deviations relating to "MCO and other stuff" and such an exercise will fail. Even in Vispassana, breathing and walking meditations, there is no "MCO and other stuff, nor anything that was unspoken.  

[Cheshire Cat]

[...]

Dear SeekerOfHealing, Before the Buddha decided to end his existence on earth, he was asked by his chief retainer Ven. Ananda whether there was anything that was not taught to him. The answer was no. One could check all the suttas and sutras of both traditions for dhamma deviations relating to "MCO and other stuff" and such an exercise will fail. Even in Vispassana, breathing and walking meditations, there is no "MCO and other stuff, nor anything that was unspoken.  

 

I've heard that most of the buddhist scripture survives today thanks to chinese and tibetan translators because muslims destroyed all major buddhist libraries in India.

Many tantras were lost and entered the realm of legends and you could hear many stories of masters who recovered previously lost texts from the dakinis.

 

It's true that in theravada there are no references to MCO exercises, but maybe there's something in chinese buddhist scriptures...

[SeekerOfHealing]

in anapansati sutta you have MCO stage. 

[Cheshire Cat]

It's true that anapanasati sutta has been variously interpreted to produce different meditation methods, but I'm quite sure that to find a reference to MCO there would require a special stretch of the cognitive mind of the reader.

 

Curiously, only daoist meditators and chinese buddhists sometimes claim that MCO happens by itself without the practice of guiding Qi.

Edited December 27, 2016 by Cheshire Cat

[Sudhamma]

To Cheshire Cat, you can refer to the Pali Canon published by The Pali Society, UK for the Buddhist scriptures whihch can be cross-referenced with the Chinese Buddhist Canons.

 

To SeekerOfHealing, Anapansati meditation, 'watching the breadth' is a practise of awareness and mental concentration. There is no MCO nor its stages, no cultivation of qi, no chakras either, no hui-yin nor bai-hui, no storing of qi into the dan-tien. Buddhist breathing meditation demand natural breathing using the lungs, not diaphramic, and so, how to develop any 'orbit' without qi cultivation, without focusing on the points of both du and ren mai to accomplish a basic mco. Rhetorically, can MCO happen naturally? The primary objective of Buddhist meditation is not mco nor the cultivation of qi or any alchemic training of nei dan, but to rein in the 'monkey' mind before going into absorptions or jhanics stages. It is during this absorption meditations, the 4 jhanas, that the successful meditator (becoming an arhant) can develop superhuman abilities, but it is not the motive of the practice. Even in this advance stage of meditation, there is no mco, no nei dan. 

[SeekerOfHealing]

How easy is to spot amateur? Thru breath you can attain immortality and Dao, breathing can tap into pre-natal energies that's why some of Arhants choose to become immortals. 

[Sudhamma]

Who is considered an arhant? The historical Buddha is an Arhant of the superlative level. Being an arhant means that he/she has removed that last fetter that cause rebirth into any plane of existence. No more samsaric existence which by the way, also dictates all heavenly abodes including those of immortals. Immortals are within the realms of gods. Arhants and Buddhas are not as they have ended the cycle of rebirths within the six planes of existence, heavens included.

[SeekerOfHealing]

No, that's your ideas based on thinking which makes no sense. You can not take what you think to what is true on experiencial level. First attain arhanthood then we will talk about what is it. 

[Cheshire Cat]

How easy is to spot amateur? Thru breath you can attain immortality and Dao, breathing can tap into pre-natal energies that's why some of Arhants choose to become immortals.

No, that's your ideas based on myths and legends which make no sense. You can not take what you think to what is true on experiencial level. First attain Dao and immortality with breathing meditation, then we will talk about anapanasati in daoist terms.

[Cheshire Cat]

To Cheshire Cat, you can refer to the Pali Canon published by The Pali Society, UK for the Buddhist scriptures whihch can be cross-referenced with the Chinese Buddhist Canons.

 

I think that the most important portion of chinese buddhist scriptures belong to mahayana. Does the Pali society study mahayana texts? I knew that it's very rare to find an Indian mahayana scripture thanks to muslims. ..

[Sudhamma]

The attributes of an accomplished arhant is in the Buddha-Dhamma. Feel free to check it out. Don't need to be a medical doctor to know another.

 

To Cheshire Cat, you may like to check the web-site of The Pali Society on the Mahayana Canon.

[Cheshire Cat]

[...]

 

To Cheshire Cat, you may like to check the web-site of The Pali Society on the Mahayana Canon.

 

can't find such a thing. Can you provide a link?

[damdao]

I think that the most important portion of chinese buddhist scriptures belong to mahayana. Does the Pali society study mahayana texts? I knew that it's very rare to find an Indian mahayana scripture thanks to muslims. ..

 

Many mahayana texts were in fact chinese from the beginig, they are called chinese apocrypha.

So, even without muslim conquest in the north you will never find a sanskrit original of some renowned mahayana sutras.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Chinese-Buddhist-Apocrypha-Buswell-Robert/dp/8170303419

[Cheshire Cat]

Many mahayana texts were in fact chinese from the beginig, they are called chinese apocrypha.

So, even without muslim conquest in the north you will never find a sanskrit original of some renowned mahayana sutras.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Chinese-Buddhist-Apocrypha-Buswell-Robert/dp/8170303419

 

We don't know how many...

[SeekerOfHealing]

Many mahayana texts were in fact chinese from the beginig, they are called chinese apocrypha.

So, even without muslim conquest in the north you will never find a sanskrit original of some renowned mahayana sutras.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Chinese-Buddhist-Apocrypha-Buswell-Robert/dp/8170303419

Mahayana agamas from sanskrit are 95% similar to Pali early buddhist texts.

 

buddhist = taoism with less focus on ming, but still they have ming methods but different. Arhant blocks leakage so do not die, some of them just realize nibbana and dies in 7 days as their fulfilled their life. The yang shen that most people understand that they save their consciousness while dying is false neidan - as consciousness is taji results of yin and yang workings so it will dissolve. Wuji consciousness is much different, it's not related to anything in taji but at the same relates to everything in taji.

[Ormus]

Buddhist lost Ming Gong and today they dont have complete system.Even Dzogchen Diamond body is not the same as Yang Shen which is everlasting.

 

Physical Immortality is real,just read carefully pre-Nei Dan books from the time of Ge Hong.

 

Master Chen Yingning the best explain why Daoism way of Immortality is suprime in relation to Mahayana Buddhism and their false doctrine of Emptiness.

 

Ormus

[SeekerOfHealing]

No, japanese buddhist still have ming gong and many others streams - having complete system.

 

i'm not saying physical immortality is not real as we can see in objective world that there are animals, trees and different organism who live way beyond regular human lifespan.

 

Chen Yingning died like regular person so he didn't prove that way of immortality is suprime to mahayana - and doctrine of emptiness it's not false. Stop identifying yourself with body and mind and you will see they are empty and non existent.