Taoist view of Afterlife?

[Drifting_Through_Infinity]

Do we merge with Tao? Is it as though we were never born? Is the Jade emperor gonna fly over and escort us the the land of the immortals? Do we know?

[Marblehead]

I like your last question.  That's the most important one.

 

I don't know as I have never died yet.  But I have lots of opinions.  I'll keep them to myself for now.

[Kongming]

As far as I understand it, there have been multiple views and perspectives in Daoism on our fate after death throughout history. To state some:

 

--Our hun and po souls separate and our individual self returns to the universe (spirit to the heavens, body to earth) to be cycled through into some other form of existence (the notion of bianhua 变化 or change.) This is the fate of most normal people

 

--Later the Daoists would expand upon this idea with more specifically Buddhist influenced visions of transmigration based upon ones karma

 

--Of course the sage or "true man" 真人 or immortal would be one who wouldn't face a similar end, attaining what was seen as variously a unity with the Dao beyond the changes or bianhua, entrance into the heavens/paradise and celestial hierarchy/administration, and the creation of the perfected alchemical body or "body outside ones body" (身外身)

 

In short, it can be certain that the Daoists didn't see some sort of nihlistic end of complete annihilation, even if the possibility that the ego-body or "small self" might meet such an end. It also appears that the postmortem fate of your average Joe and the fate of the sage or alchemical master was seen as different.

 

It would seem another view (expressed in the Zhuangzi for at some parts for instance) albeit one I believe to be a minority would be that everyone would simply return to the Dao or what they were prior to birth after death. As far as I am aware, the two primary living forms of Daoism (Quanzhen and the various groups under the Zhengyi alliance) don't adhere to this notion.

[MooNiNite]

THe Daoists always talk about the Islands where exceptional humans go to after death

[SeekerOfHealing]

The most important question - do you ask experimentally or academically? 

[Marblehead]

THe Daoists always talk about the Islands where exceptional humans go to after death

 

This one doesn't.

[words]

Tangent question: do you think  that one's view of afterlife factors in their experience of afterlife?

[Marblehead]

No.

[dust]

I don't know as I have never died yet.

 

Are you sure?

 

 

In answer to the OP... my understanding is that some believe and some don't.

 

From a post-positivist existentialist Daoist perspective, the "afterlife" is whatever the universe does after you're dead. The whole Great Thing is a pre-life, peri-life, and post-life party.

 

 

edit: also I'm not sure why this is in Textual Studies...?

Edited November 27, 2016 by dust

[Wu Ming Jen]

We are one with the tao, What is actually born, a physical body. The immortals which includes you are an archetype of the highest human virtues and how to live life in balance and harmony with all things meaning you are not separate from any thing.

    

 

The only thing I know is I came from the unknown and return to the unknown basically nothing to know. 

[Drifting_Through_Infinity]

I mean, is there any indication in Taoist literature??

[SeekerOfHealing]

Some or many of taoist do not believe rebirth or reincarnation. Depends on which region do you ask. There are many theories and ideas when it comes to it and related to the dynamic of yin and yang. Generally boring stuff, you better develop yin shen and try explore this death world by yourself. 

[Marblehead]

Are you sure?

 

 

There are many things I'm not sure of.  That isn't one of them.

[Marblehead]

I mean, is there any indication in Taoist literature??

 

Certain readings of certain passages of both Lao Tzu and Chuang Tzu could cause one to think that they are talking about an afterlife or immortality.  I think those people are just looking for something they want to see (but really isn't there).

[silent thunder]

pure and neutral... 

essential core relationships of frequencies, vibration and resonance. 

constant flow

unification through related frequencies

distillation of essential nature

 

a shifting

[dawei]

Do we merge with Tao? Is it as though we were never born? Is the Jade emperor gonna fly over and escort us the the land of the immortals? Do we know?

 

Could you explain more of your understand of 'afterlife' ?

 

I could make a few guesses based on your post but rather you just expand on it.

 

But as I likely need to explain why I need to hear more, what I mean is:  You sound to say we are carried off to somewhere.

 

Maybe the question(s) should be:

1. What happens after I/we die?

2. Is there some place we go or is it like we're asleep?

3. Do I wake up from this, ever again?

4. If we go somewhere, do all go?  If not all, why some do and some do not ?

5. If I wake up again, do I remember anything before I fell asleep (aka, died) ?

 

I see more than one interpretation of your thread:  

a. After I die, is there some realm in which I am aware of where I am?

b. After I die, if I'm back in the manifest life, am I aware of what I was?

 

So I wonder if you'd further explain what your asking and thinking.   Thanks

[words]

Another tangent question: do you think that what afterlife is (like) would be revealed to one, once they would really understand what life is? 

[Marblehead]

I have said before; sometimes the questions are more important than any answers to the questions.

 

We must not assume there is some form of after-life until after we have asked the question:  Is there any form of after-life after death?  Answers should include proof.

[words]

what would qualify as proof? pictures, samples, afterlife artifacts?

[Andrei]

What happens to a car after it "dies"?

What happens to a computer after it "dies"?

What happens to a cell phone after it "dies"?

 

Do you replace it's battery?

Do you reinstall it's software?

Do you replace the memory card?

How many times you do it?

[Kongming]

THe Daoists always talk about the Islands where exceptional humans go to after death

 

The symbolism of the paradisal island is a widespread one and one with profounder meaning than it may seem on the surface. Two examples aside from the Daoist Penglai and related islands would be the various Celtic/Irish Otherworld Islands such as Avalon, Tir na nOg, etc. and the Buddha's use of the image of an island for nirvana.

 

The reason for this was that in many forms of traditional symbolism, one of the symbols of "the waters" was essentially the conditioned world of change and flux which we find ourselves ensnared in, much in the same way that Narcissus was entranced by his reflection in the waters, which he fell into and proved to be his end. The island, on the other hand, is that solid foundation that is "above" or "beyond" the waters, cannot be overwhelmed by the waters, and so on.

 

In other words, the paradisal islands are as much symbols ontological states (that of the sage, the "true man", the immortal, etc.) as "places." 

 

In any case, regarding the topic matter, I think Julius Evola in his pamphlet on Daoism (really his introduction to the old Italian version of the Daodejing) sums up the postmortem situation. Here's a screen capture from the PDF (text can't easily be copied and I don't have enough time or patience to type it out now):

 

[Marblehead]

what would qualify as proof? pictures, samples, afterlife artifacts?

 

Just about anything that could be independently verified.  I mean, even Jesus has been returning for 2,000 years and hasn't made it yet.  If the son of God can't do it then I would say the possibility is very improbable.

[Marblehead]

What happens to a car after it "dies"?

What happens to a computer after it "dies"?

What happens to a cell phone after it "dies"?

 

Do you replace it's battery?

Do you reinstall it's software?

Do you replace the memory card?

How many times you do it?

 

That a different concept.  You spoke of non-living, manufactured things.

 

I have never seen a plant come back to life after it was dead.  Even cats really don't have nine lives.

[Brian]

Do we merge with Tao? Is it as though we were never born? Is the Jade emperor gonna fly over and escort us the the land of the immortals? Do we know?

Why do you ask?

[Andrei]

That a different concept.  You spoke of non-living, manufactured things.

 

I have never seen a plant come back to life after it was dead.  Even cats really don't have nine lives.

 

Yes, exactly. But plants reproduce and they transmit genes for life to perpetuate. So do cats.

 

But it would be interesting to define what is life? What is life for a plant and what is life for a cat?