Taoist view of Afterlife?

[awaken]

So tree chi huns, 7 po?

I don't know.

 

I am still looking for the answer.

 

This is what I found the examples for the meaning of numbers.

 

七返九還出於李道純《全真集玄秘要》。總謂「七返九還」，是用大衍易數來比喻內丹之道。

 

返九還，也稱七返九轉。道教修鍊認為，天地有五行，人體有五臟，如此相配，水為腎，火為心，木為肝，金為肺，土為脾。與五行生成之數相配， (即天一生水，地二生火，天三生木，地四生金，天五生土；地六成水，天七成火，地八成木，天九成金，地十成土 )腎得一與六，心得二與七，肝得三與八，肺得四與九，脾得五與十。此中七與九是兩個成數，也是兩個陽數，代表人身之陽炁。修鍊之士，采煉的就是這個陽炁，以此點化全身陰氣，成就純陽之體。心七為心為火，心火下降，七返於中元而入下丹田，結成大丹，稱「七返還丹」。肺九為金，金生水，水為元精，精由炁化，故九為元陽之炁，運此陽炁遍布全身，使陰息陽長，稱「九轉還丹」。二者相合，總謂「七返九還」。這是用大衍易數來比喻內丹之道。

 

李道純《全真集玄秘要》曰： 「陰陽感合，而生五行也，天一生水，地二生火，天三生木，地四生金，天五生土，此五行生數也。五行運化，機緘不已，四時行而百物生焉。以身言之，身心立而精炁流行，五臟生而五行具矣。天一生水，精藏於腎也。地二生火，神藏於心也。天三生木，魂藏於肝也。地四生金，魄藏於肺也。天五生土，意藏於脾也。五行運動而四端發矣，達是理者則能隨時變易以從道也。」

 

In all books of dan dao and Chinese medicine classics, only one book talk about 三魂七魄.

 

The other books only mention about 魂魄.

 

I don't think 三魂七魄 is the truth.

 

　　古人認為人身上有三魂七魄，也有說三魂六魄的，三魂又叫三精。這種說法來源於道家，如道書《雲笈七籤》云：「夫人有三魂，一名爽靈，二名胎元，，三名幽精。」七魄是：屍狗、伏矢、雀陰、吞賊、非毒、除穢、臭肺，皆「身中之濁鬼也」。三魂七魄的多種解釋

 

古人迷信， 以為人體有七魄， 人死， 除一魄守其骸骨， 餘六魄皆淪散。

《剪燈新話‧牡丹燈記》： “伏念某青年棄世， 白晝無鄰， 六魄雖離， 一靈未泯。”

 

六魄 — 人身中六魄屬陰神。 謂庚申之日， 此日是身體中六魄之鬼上入天府， 下還人身。 每至其日， 東向平坐， 慎勿睡勿臥（見《洞真太上道君元丹上經》）。 … Explanatory dictionary of Taoism

Edited December 3, 2016 by awaken

[Drifting_Through_Infinity]

Don't believe, just be.

 

It's an interesting topic but in what way would understanding the Taoist view of afterlife impact your behavior today?

 

As if someone with your profile pic can be trusted.

 

I just want to know what the TAOIST view is

[dawei]

I just want to know what the TAOIST view is

 

If you go to any Daoist monastery in china, you will get an answer... but is it what you really need ?  So you ask the bums instead

 

There is no before and after in a sense... and there is, yet... from our manifest perspective.  If you can visit past or future then you would gather the 'great recycling' that is going on.   

 

So what is your real question?

[Wu Ming Jen]

The many spirits and consciousness of our internal organs that make up one human body is usually addressed to the speculation of reincarnation making it very unlikely that the same consciousness all come together as one to be reincarnated.

 

Taoist seem to not speculate placing being alive and living to be a much higher priority then any thoughts of life after death.

 

If all things are good in life now there is no need to worry about future or death.

 

The whole death thing is duality in action not realizing what is born ages and fades away, what is always present throughout all life being non material is the spiritual practice. 

 

 

The harmony of material needs and spiritual life NOW is of the up most importance.

[Kara_mia]

I believe it could be said that taoists do not think too much about afterlife because it's a nonproductive approach. They consider this life as a great opportunity, as the most treasured thing - and they try to accomplish their goal within the course of one's life. Remember what Zhang Boduan wrote in Wuzhen pian? 

[Rara]

You should read The Zhong Lü Chuan Dao Ji.

 

It is a famous dan dao classics.

I was going to ask, what constitures as Daoist literature other than Lao Tzu, Chuang Tzu and Leih Tzu. I will have a look at this as well

[Rara]

I believe it could be said that taoists do not think too much about afterlife because it's a nonproductive approach. They consider this life as a great opportunity, as the most treasured thing - and they try to accomplish their goal within the course of one's life. Remember what Zhang Boduan wrote in Wuzhen pian?

No, but what I read in this post appears to be my understanding of things so far

[Kara_mia]

No, but what I read in this post appears to be my understanding of things so far

 

Great. I am glad we are on the same wavelength. What I meant about Zhang Boduan - I referred to his Wuzhen pian work, where he wrote:

 

" IF YOU DO NOT SEEK THE GREAT WAY TO LEAVE THE PATH OF DELUSION, EVEN IF YOU ARE INTELLIGENT AND TALENTED, YOU ARE NOT WORTHY. A HUNDRED YEARS IS LIKE A SPARK, A LIFETIME IS LIKE A BUBBLE. IF YOU ONLY CRAVE MATERIAL GAIN AND PROMINENCE, WITHOUT CONSIDERING THE DETERIORATION OF YOUR BODY,  I ASK YOU, EVEN IF YOU ACCUMULATE A MOUNTAIN OF GOLD CAN YOU BUY OFF IMPERMANENCE?"

[thelerner]

An old crazy/wise member (RJ) once stated 'How will your practice help you, after you are dead?'

A very provocative question. 

 

Some of the deeper levels of dreamwork may provide answers but I don't know.  Unfortunately, I have little natural talent for it. 

[Marblehead]

An old crazy/wise member (RJ) once stated 'How will your practice help you, after you are dead?'

A very provocative question. 

 

 

Excellent question indeed.  There would be so many different responses to it.

[Kara_mia]

An old crazy/wise member (RJ) once stated 'How will your practice help you, after you are dead?'

A very provocative question. 

 

Some of the deeper levels of dreamwork may provide answers but I don't know.  Unfortunately, I have little natural talent for it. 

 

Exactly! An excellent question, indeed! May be that is the reason why Taoism does not have an elaborated concept of afterlife unlike Buddhism or Christianity? Taoists consider life as a priceless gift and an opportunity to break the endless circle of life and death.

[Kara_mia]

I would like to post here a piece of poetry from Taoist teachers and sages that emphasize the importance of working during this life, and not finding comfort in the hope for a possible afterlife

 

To the Tune "Groping for Fish" / Wang Chongyang

I lament the skeleton
Lying in the open fields.
Your lonely white bones are scattered,
A vagrant from some unknown place.
There's no way to tell whether you're male or female;
You've been cast aside and completely abandoned.
This is because you did not practice cultivation in former lives,
But rather played around like a foolish monkey
And in this life you have now fallen down.
Wind-blown, rain-drenched, and sun-bleached,
You are beaten by the senseless herding boys.
I wish to inquire about how you came to such an end,
But I still have compassion for your suffering.
How could we converse about this anyway?
Your mouth is filled with mud and sand fills your eyes—
This is the way you will decay.
Forever, day and night,
You count the yearly change of autumn, winter,
Of spring and summer too—
Through all four seasons lonely and alone.
Come to your senses, people old and young
And do not flaunt your smartness, flash your charms.

[effilang]

An old crazy/wise member (RJ) once stated 'How will your practice help you, after you are dead?'

 

That depends on how you practice while you are alive!

[zerostao]

As if someone with your profile pic can be trusted.

 

I just want to know what the TAOIST view is

your profile pic is much more trustworthy, anyways

well not to mention he wears a blue jacket and yellow boots, perhaps he is even some ucla fan?

for sure he is some naughty boy. 

your instincts are spot on.

you ask good questions, i want to know what THE TAOIST view is as well.

very likely, a new member will sign up named "The Taoist" and clear all of this up.

[Brian]

your profile pic is much more trustworthy, anyways

well not to mention he wears a blue jacket and yellow boots, perhaps he is even some ucla fan?

for sure he is some naughty boy.

your instincts are spot on.

you ask good questions, i want to know what THE TAOIST view is as well.

very likely, a new member will sign up named "The Taoist" and clear all of this up.

A very naughty boy at that!

[Wu Ming Jen]

If we call life a blessing then death is also a blessing. Short life or long life both are still a blessing.

 

Most fear death their whole life but when death is on your doorstep it can not come quickly enough.

 

Doing a thousand years of work in one lifetime we take care of our material needs but also know that the true work is non material.

 

To feel positive of accomplishment in the material world is not a bad thing, health, wealth and longevity so we are not cut down before our time.

 

Heart/mind and body rely on each other. Sitting facing the wall in emptiness soon wears out the cushion with little or no accomplishment. Celebrate the physical world being always engaged. A healthy mind and a healthy body rest on each other.  

 

I have seen many drop their physical routines for matters of mind,  The sadness of such things is no longer being effective in the physical world, poor interaction with others /self and the list is long. Being part of Nature and how it works (meaning not just sitting in emptiness) is the true teacher as we are nature.

[words]

death might be put in place to activate the 'under pressure' seeking. it's hard to argue (for me, at least) that death is an important piece in the mechanism that drives the seeking. 'what death is' or 'what happens after death' are nagging questions running on repeat in one's background, that give birth to cascades of other questions for which one is compelled to find answers. one would have to take the steps of understanding what life is and who/what is living and dying, to get close to understanding what death is and what comes next. the definition of death and view of the afterlife keeps changing with one's definition and understanding of life.

 

what you believe is true. what you believe is what it is for you. it's like a system of lenses for perceiving and thus experiencing reality. what you believe is your choice. that's the freedom. 

 

life unfolds as it does and what it is flows as it flows. what one believes doesn't change that. however, what one believes shapes their experience of it. in life, in death, in the afterlife and in every possible dimension and level of reality where there are still beliefs in place. 

 

enjoy life

[Marblehead]

When my mom was in her last days my sister was visiting her and my sister said that while talking my mom asked "Why is it so hard to die?"  My mom's mind was ready but her body just wouldn't let go.  She did pass on a few days after that.

[Kara_mia]

When my mom was in her last days my sister was visiting her and my sister said that while talking my mom asked "Why is it so hard to die?"  My mom's mind was ready but her body just wouldn't let go.  She did pass on a few days after that.

 

I am truly sorry to hear of the loss of your mother...

 

Is it appropriate to say that the soul is dreading the death? And this is another point to support the argument re doing something in this life?

 

If I may, I would like to post again a short poem written by another Taoist practitioner about importance of practicing Tao in this life and not living a life of layman - a plea to awaken

 

Hie Skeleton / Tan Changzhen

 

Skeleton, oh skeleton, your face is so ugly,

Only because in life you loved beauty and alcohol.

Cunningly smiling you became fattened on ideas and pleasures

So your blood and flesh gradually wasted away.

Gradually wasting away—But you still continued to lust.

Through greed and avarice, you dissipated your vitality with no completion,

Your desires were without limit but your body had its term

And now today you have become a skeleton!

Becoming a skeleton—Listen to me:

It is not easy to acquire a human body with Seven Treasures!

Realize that innate nature and life-destiny are like pulling-strings,

So do not blindly follow your emotions!

That's why I have painted this form to show to you

And see whether or not you will today become awakened!

[Marblehead]

I am truly sorry to hear of the loss of your mother...

 

Is it appropriate to say that the soul is dreading the death? And this is another point to support the argument re doing something in this life?

 

 

That was a number of years ago and the loss has been fully acknowledged and accepted.

 

She was Christian and believed in spiritual after-life.  But yes, she had used up her life as best she could.

 

To the poem, indeed, our desires can get in the way of our true nature.  To live a life in search of unattainable desires:  How sad would that be?

[[email protected]]

An old crazy/wise member (RJ) once stated 'How will your practice help you, after you are dead?'

A very provocative question. 

 

There are some practices in Dzogchen (not sure to spell it correctly) that teach what a person should do being in the process if death (after death came and the mind or soul or self-being of a person is going to stream somewhere).

I mean the practice being in bardo of dying.

Sorry to post here not a taoist point, but this practice is really giving some answers. The thing is that this practice is not a point of strongest secret but not open for everybody as well.

As I know Taoism says about hun and po (Awaken has already pointed out a bit earlier here). After death as I have read (maybe mistaken) that hun go to the skies while po return to earth, and shen (the spirit) disappears. Of courser if someone is not a high-level practitioner.