Microcosmic Orbit Questions

[phil]

Hey,

 

I am practicing the Microcosmic Orbit. 

 

I started 2 years ago when i read Mantak Chias Books.

 

Lately I moved to a new town and found a chinese qi gong-teacher, who also teaches the MCO.

 

But there are a few things that could not really be answered by either the books or my teacher. There are also some differences in their teaching, so i would like to hear your opinions on that.

 

When practicing I feel the chi moving really fast to my head, so I guess my Yang-meridian is quite opened. But its very hard for me to move it from my head to the lower dantian. It kind of feels like theres a blockage in my throat and/or heart and its much harder to feel the energy in the ying-meridian and moving it downward.

Do you have any tipps that could help me to move it downward? Is it better to concentrate on the places that are blocked or should I concentrate on the opened stations? I am asking this because i have the feeling, that the blockage may become stronger when I concentrate on my throat for example.

 

A main difference between Mantak Chias and my teachers teaching is moving of the tongue. 

As is understood Chia, the tongue should touch the palate the whole time during the meditation. 

My teacher taught me to raise the tongue till the energy comes to the throat. Then the tongue should be moved downward till the chi reaches the lower dantian. I dont know if its an important difference, but i wanted to ask it nonetheless.

 

Ok thats it, i am excited to hear your opinions..

Edited December 1, 2016 by phil48

[RiverSnake]

Charge the blockage with Love and it will dissolve. 

[Cheshire Cat]

There are some who largely doubt the existence of such an energetic circuitry which has no parallel in western and indian systems. Also, the fact that the earliest sources about the mco practice comes from an infamous period of chinese spirituality in which wannabe-alchemists created a hundred recipes of poisonous elixirs and questionably effective meditational and physical exercises, does not help.

 

Personally, I worked on the front channel many many yeas, but never succeeded in establishing a downward flow. Actually, energy used to go up to the head using the front-channel area, thus causing a few problems with digestion.

Even if I meditate on the physical navel, I feel energy moving toward the solar plexus (and not downward): and it was not just about "sensations", but they used to appear signs on the skin.

 

I don't feel authoritative enough to say that the front-channel doesn't exist, rather I suggest to explore the daoist practice of swallowing saliva to see if it helps.

[Miffymog]

There are Iron Shirt techniques that use perineum power (or the muscles around the lower pelvis) to direct chi/pressure to various parts of the body in order to pack them with energy. Unfortunately, if due to emotional issues, these muscles are permanently tense, then you are effectively constantly inadvertently (sorry for all the adverbs) using this method to send energy up your torso and in to your head. The only way to stop this happening is to develop a practice where you gain more and more control over these muscles. Once you have, you can then tell them to relax. The aim is then to keep them relaxed throughout the day, no matter the circumstances (this is can be very difficult). Only when you have truly learnt to relax these muscles do you have a good chance of allowing the energy from your head to descend naturally. What this suggest is that you should really gain this skill first before you try out the MCO, if at all.

[awaken]

Yang go up and Ying go down.

 

So you need to know what is real Ying.

 

陰陽浮沈 is very important in dan dao.

 

Most of teacher misunderstand the Ying.

 

The line between yang and Ying is 識神.

 

Consciousness Shen

 

識神隱，元神顯

 

Consciousness Shen disappears, and then original Shen appears.

 

It means you need more reflex to let your consciousness go deep down.

 

Then your chi can go into Ying.

 

You can not use 武火(big fire) all the time.

 

When 火候 (the timing of fire) reach the high point, you need (lower fire) 文火 to let it down.

 

火候 is the biggest secret of dan dao.

 

Not many people know it.

 

 

Your chi is gathered in your head, because you don't learn the real dan dao.

 

Ying yang , 鉛汞，water and fire,浮沈，本來面目

 

When the chi get to the head, you don't need any methods.

 

You just need to relax more, and you will go into a state of 恍惚渺冥(a state of half sleep and half awake).

 

And 恍惚渺冥 is a very important state of dan dao.

 

Without 恍惚渺冥，it's impossible to go into Ying.

Edited December 2, 2016 by awaken

[phil]

Thank You, its very Helpful.

I for Myself had the impression that its more easy for me to focus on chi and direct it through my willpower to various points than to just let it flow. i guess focus is a good a thing but when it gets to ying too much focus means too much fire? ying more means just allowing right? so i guess this state of half asleep and hafl awake is what is missing in my meditation.

 

well this really makes sense, thank you.

[SeekerOfHealing]

I do not know if you find it helpful but there are two types of MCO - one is for Neidan practice, second is for qigong and health. If you just breath in and do circles around yourself moving Qi by Shen thru Du Mai and Ren Mai then you are losing yuan qi.

 

Awaken seems very skillful practitioner and very learned around.

[awaken]

Chi has its own way between Ying and Yang.

 

What we need to do is follow it.

 

The extreme of Yang goes to Ying automatic.

 

The extreme of Ying goes to Yang automatic, too.

 

So, at first, we follow chi. 練精化氣

after chi get together with our focus, we follow the changes of Shen.練氣化神

 

The target of our focus can be changed little by little.

[Apech]

Hey,

 

I am practicing the Microcosmic Orbit. 

 

I started 2 years ago when i read Mantak Chias Books.

 

Lately I moved to a new town and found a chinese qi gong-teacher, who also teaches the MCO.

 

But there are a few things that could not really be answered by either the books or my teacher. There are also some differences in their teaching, so i would like to hear your opinions on that.

 

When practicing I feel the chi moving really fast to my head, so I guess my Yang-meridian is quite opened. But its very hard for me to move it from my head to the lower dantian. It kind of feels like theres a blockage in my throat and/or heart and its much harder to feel the energy in the ying-meridian and moving it downward.

Do you have any tipps that could help me to move it downward? Is it better to concentrate on the places that are blocked or should I concentrate on the opened stations? I am asking this because i have the feeling, that the blockage may become stronger when I concentrate on my throat for example.

 

A main difference between Mantak Chias and my teachers teaching is moving of the tongue. 

As is understood Chia, the tongue should touch the palate the whole time during the meditation. 

My teacher taught me to raise the tongue till the energy comes to the throat. Then the tongue should be moved downward till the chi reaches the lower dantian. I dont know if its an important difference, but i wanted to ask it nonetheless.

 

Ok thats it, i am excited to hear your opinions..

 

 

My thoughts are:

 

1.  Most MCO is not really MCO but laying the foundations by energising and removing blockages from your subtle body.  So don't think so much in terms of circulation but simply charging up the centres and meridians, filling them if you like.  the real MCO happens of itself and doesn't need method or effort.

 

2.  Never heard of moving the tongue down - I think it should remain touching palette - but I would suggest following your teachers instructions to see if they work.

 

3.  Don't focus on the area of blockage.  Focus on next centre or centres eg. heart, solar plexus , naval and LDT.  relax the throat as much as you can.  But do everything in a light hearted way without straining.

 

4.  In all practice follow the process without reacting to changing sensations - just do the practice and repeat.  Feeling energy move is good but if you follow it you might drift off the practice and actually cause blockages.

 

Just some thoughts - for you to consider

[dawei]

When practicing I feel the chi moving really fast to my head, so I guess my Yang-meridian is quite opened. But its very hard for me to move it from my head to the lower dantian. It kind of feels like theres a blockage in my throat and/or heart and its much harder to feel the energy in the ying-meridian and moving it downward.

Do you have any tipps that could help me to move it downward? Is it better to concentrate on the places that are blocked or should I concentrate on the opened stations? I am asking this because i have the feeling, that the blockage may become stronger when I concentrate on my throat for example.

 

I think that the open Yang/Governing Vessel and your closed Yin/Conception Vessel is not uncommon...

 

I would be inclined to supplement other practices to open your front... as OldWolf suggests... even some of us here could maybe do it remotely to you to help open it.   I did a quick remote check and can feel your throat/issue.  As you like Chia, consider his Inner Smile:

 

http://albanyqigong.com/images/Inner%20Smile%20and%20Six%20Healing%20Sounds%20Practice.pdf

 

 

Should you focus on the block? 

 

There are so many variations on the MCO I read over the years... some say never focus; others say focus for a short time.  What you will need to do is ensure you practice it in a way that is beneficial and not harmful, but even that is difficult without a teacher around.  As you now have a teacher, I would follow his method to see if it works for you.

 

But if you decide to do your own thing (and none of us here are that way   ), here are a few ideas:

 

1. my method is to just keep the intention of the cycle going... I never stop and focus.  If needed, you can visualize the creation of a pearl that you are moving, slowly along the way.

2. I've read a method that said to stop at the major areas (on back and front) for a few seconds and then move on...  keep it consistent and don't linger.  The mind can cause problems, is my warning.

3. There is a natural cycle that will unfold and others can talk to that method but that may not be what your current teacher would support (?)

 

 

 

A main difference between Mantak Chias and my teachers teaching is moving of the tongue. 

As is understood Chia, the tongue should touch the palate the whole time during the meditation. 

My teacher taught me to raise the tongue till the energy comes to the throat. Then the tongue should be moved downward till the chi reaches the lower dantian. I dont know if its an important difference, but i wanted to ask it nonetheless.

 

Tongue position has been discussed here quite a bit in regards to the MCO... I am a fan of 24x7 fire position... never let the tongue down... all day... all night...  Keep the circuit connected in everyday life.   That being said, what your current teacher says seems ok.   Once the Qi flow is past the mouth, the tongue/circuit may be less important.  And what I realize in the idea is, your tongue moving downward may be like a person waving a flag to move downward.   I would personally experiment with that idea but later you should realize that is just a physical ploy to 'lead Qi'. 

[sillybearhappyhoneyeater]

I am personally not a big fan of Qi gong techniques which work directly with the MCO, but here are my 2 c for what they are worth:

 

1: I don't know how you are practicing, but just as a general point:  moving the mind up the spine and down the front is called "empty cycling of the microcosmic orbit," and is generally considered to be bad in Daoism.  Most Qi gong methods which are concerned with the MCO will follow a somewhat less direct method of cultivating it which focuses the energy in various places rather than leading it.

 

2: MCO is better achieved by practising meditation, but it takes longer, since you have to give up your intention to move the qi in that area and just let it move by itself.

 

3: it is much better to practice naturally rather than forcing things.

[RyanO]

Bottom line:  everybody (every body) is different and you have to experiment to find what works for you.  Many schools will present their techniques dogmatically (you have to rotate energy around dantian such and such times, different for men and women, etc etc).  But you will find many contradictions in these teachings while also finding successful practitioners in many systems.  One is left to conclude that arbitrary techniques are mixed in with essential ones in these systems, and it is up to the practitioner to find out the difference.  This is especially true if one is "mixing systems", which is where you get the advice to refrain from doing just that.

 

Regarding the tongue thing, you can do it either way.  Simple.  Tongue connecting all the time will create a constant channel while leading the tongue can help to facilitate downward flow once energy reaches that point.  Safest would be a constant connection, which is why you hear that so often, but there is nothing wrong with dropping the tongue every once in a while.  In your case it might be a good idea to keep it up with too much energy in the head.

 

Some more advice would be: Inner Smile is great, HEE triple warmer sound (from Chia) while moving hands downward, google "Duck Egg" meditation to bring chi down to dantian, any qigong that brings energy down (grounding, rooting practices such as earthy walking, deep earth pulsing, mind in your feet, chi circulation movements, etc.  Lots out there)  By the way, mentally directing chi does not have to equate with forcing, so use a loving and accepting intent.  And again, figure out what's best for you!

 

,  

[[email protected]]

I had a similar situation when I tried MCO - I can feel it rising up but no way to feel it goes down.

Is there any way to find the feeling of qi going down?

 

Ilya

[phil]

Thanks to all of you guys, this really helps a lot

 

I also found out about the MCO-Orbit taught by Spring Forest Qi Gong, which seems to be a lot more safe meditation to me than Mantak Chias Version. I am also getting the importance of an empty mind during the meditation and that its also important to find a perfect balance between forcing the energy and letting the energy flow naturally.

[Wizz]

I had a similar situation when I tried MCO - I can feel it rising up but no way to feel it goes down.

Is there any way to find the feeling of qi going down?

 

Ilya

 

Yes there is and it goes like this:

 

Pull and connect the perineum with all of your lower energy together with the navel point inside the navel. The connection will happen inside the navel at its lowest point and it will feel as well as if you are pushing the navel down to connect with the flexed area of perineum and around it. Here at the coccyx you will feel internal heat and once you feel it start transferring the heat to the coccyx and upward trough the back spine channel. You can use in-breath to help yourself but intent is how you do it, just remember to keep your navel and perineum flexed together the whole time as you guide the heat. First start step by step until you feel your whole back channel heated up, use as many inhales as you need. When you reach the back of the head you can use the soft entrance and enter with the heat into your mid brain and the whole brain. You can use your nostril in-breath to help yourself at this point. Go slowly and enjoy it most importantly this will put you at ease. 

 

Now connect your tongue with the mouth palate and guide the heat into your throat from the brain/third eye. At this point you should see for yourself that the whole front pathway feels liquid like as if you can swallow the heat trough it. The feeling of heat will change and it will become a liquid heat instead of the rising heat that you felt at the back channel. Again if you have difficulties go step by step and transfer the heat from the head trough your throat into your arms and feel it there first, use as many exhales you need and help yourself with the nostril exhale. Then you will find it easy to transfer the liquid fire down the "water" channel. This liquid fire can be used for healing while the back rising fire is used to feed your third eye. 

 

The important center to reach with the liquid fire is the center deep inside down the navel. The liquid fire feeds this point which is the center of will. From here you can easily make more rising fire and circle it again or spread it through your whole body and aura.

 

The energy body is/does the spreading while the fire is here to give vision and healing.

 

 

Another note is that once you operate from the will center it will be very easy for you to hold any image in your mind/body while you meditate.

Edited December 13, 2016 by Baloony

[phil]

I got another little question and didnt want to make an extra thread

 

I've read a lot in this forum the last days and thats how I became attracted to spring forest qi gong which feels very good to me.

They are offering phone-healings there which I think could be helpful since I have some problems with my cervical spine/spinal discs for some years and I guess thats whats blocking my chi-flow in that area. But since I am from Germany I can't take the phone-healing. 

Does anyone know if there are Qi-Gong Masters in Germany offering these type of energy-healings or are there some in the states that would do it per skype? I know there are some good energy healer in Germany but I would like to find one with a Qi-Gong background but that seems a bit difficult. 

And would you recommend this kind of energy healing at all? 

Edited December 13, 2016 by phil48

[SeekerOfHealing]

I got another little question and didnt want to make an extra thread

 

I've read a lot in this forum the last days and thats how I became attracted to spring forest qi gong which feels very good to me.

They are offering phone-healings there which I think could be helpful since I have some problems with my cervical spine/spinal discs for some years and I guess thats whats blocking my chi-flow in that area. But since I am from Germany I can't take the phone-healing. 

Does anyone know if there are Qi-Gong Masters in Germany offering these type of energy-healings or are there some in the states that would do it per skype? I know there are some good energy healer in Germany but I would like to find one with a Qi-Gong background but that seems a bit difficult. 

And would you recommend this kind of energy healing at all? 

 

No, stay away from that. Learn practice by your own it will benefit your more. People get use to addicted to healing, healing is holistic which is life style related. Some qigong masters are capable of helping healing other people if they are really well cultivated but this is extreme rare. 

[[email protected]]

Baloony, thanks a lot for your instructions, I will try to do as I understood it.

What is the expected effect to be reached as a result?

[phil]

I just tried to only focus on dantian for an hour and let the energy move naturally without any intention or will. Read this in michael lomax' book. Feeling really good, no feeling of stuck energy in my head, I guess I am gonna use this technic instead of the MCO

[RiverSnake]

I just tried to only focus on dantian for an hour and let the energy move naturally without any intention or will. Read this in michael lomax' book. Feeling really good, no feeling of stuck energy in my head, I guess I am gonna use this technic instead of the MCO

 

 

His methods are solid. 

[Brian]

I just tried to only focus on dantian for an hour and let the energy move naturally without any intention or will. Read this in michael lomax' book. Feeling really good, no feeling of stuck energy in my head, I guess I am gonna use this technic instead of the MCO

Hold gentle awareness there rather than "focus." The distinction is subtle, perhaps, but significant.

 

I sometimes describe this in terms of a sore thumb. You may be aware of a sore thumb but you focus on it when you bump it on something. When you notice your focus is on something, briefly return that focus to dan tien and then let it go -- back to gentle awareness. With time, the active focusing becomes increasingly rare until you sit (or stand) in stillness without effort. With more time, that gentle awareness continues beyond the formal sitting/standing session. Along the way, energy begins to move on its own, in many patterns (including the one commonly labeled the MCO).

[Wizz]

Baloony, thanks a lot for your instructions, I will try to do as I understood it.

What is the expected effect to be reached as a result?

 

It all depends on your intent and how you do things. With active will power you can achieve anything you want. Everything in the universe circulates and if you manage to get to the starting point thus make a circle you can always set up a new beginning and discover something new. Just running in circles wont get you anywhere unless you do things in the way you don't usually do them. Try silencing your internal dialog while you do the practice because that is the most beneficial thing that happens subconsciously with all the practices out there, this will put you in a place where the impossible is possible. Other then that circulation of energy is about transformation as fire is transformative, you will gain energy, you will heal and you will develop your inner vision and hearing. You will come to a point where microcosmic circulation becomes universal and you will gather the energy directly from the universe while residing in deep meditation, it will all be spontaneous.

 

This is not the only practice, there are many practices and having awareness is what counts, if you do things with awareness then you can achieve something, otherwise automatic doing wont get you anywhere. The technique I described is a fire breath that belongs to Toltec tradition and its incorporated with the teaching as an aid to gather energy for dreaming, for freedom.

[awaken]

After Mco is 胎息

 

After 胎息 is 玄關

 

After 玄關 is Hun-dun

 

After Hun-dun is emptiness

 

In emptiness, flying snow, full moon, lotus, yang Shen.

 

Why don't you keep on transforming to see what is going on next?

[[email protected]]

The technique I described is a fire breath that belongs to Toltec tradition and its incorporated with the teaching as an aid to gather energy for dreaming, for freedom.

 

And then what is the target of this practice and the system itself in this tradition?

[Sudhamma]

The tongue connects the Du with the Ren meridians to ensure the flow of qi from the back to the front and down to the dantein. The mental focus is not on the movement of the tougue but on the flow of the qi with the mental intent. As this is the objective, to be constantly aware of the movement of the tougue will divert the focus away from the Mental Intent. I've known that there are systems requiring the movement of the tougue in sync with the breath and they must have good reasons for it. When you begin with the da-jou tien system, the macro-cosmic orbit, a progression from Micro-Cosmic-Orbit, this tougue movement will present a serious problem. Have a talk with your teacher.