What is more important, truth or love?

[daimai]

Some say they are the same thing. In practical situations however, we can differentiate truth and love. A parallel idea may also be "would you rather be right, or be happy"?

 

Is it better to be more asleep and more loving or to be more awake and bitter (not that you have to be, but it's something that sometimes happens) ?

 

What do you think?

[Mig]

I find the parallel more on structure and love and usually kids and adults mix them altogether at all times

[RiverSnake]

Must it be an either or situation? Rather see it as different levels of Being. Truth in the ultimate brutal non-dual light frying your brains sense is located IME at Crown and Above.

 

Love we might say resonates at the Heart Center. We can cycle between these different states of Being at our leisure and they are both helpful for cultivation. 

 

Awakening and bitterness are not bound to one another. But the truth can be a bitter and hard pill to swallow at first. Once you start walking in that direction and your reality shifts in line with new Gnosis then things smooth out and you face new challenges. 

 

Not everyone is ready to walk that path....it's not for those whom wish to live in the comfort of there illusions. 

Edited December 3, 2016 by OldWolf

[rene]

To me - truth is of the mind, love is of the heart. As your question is either/or - I choose love. Always and only. (-:

[Aetherous]

Truth is a foundation of love. If you have a feeling of love which turns out to be based upon lies, you realize that it's not actually love...for instance, lets say you're married but you secretly find out your spouse has been cheating on you for the past year, and you overhear that it's specifically because they think you're boring as a human being. If you didn't find these things out, you'd still be kissing them each morning on your way to work.

If we were to be given the red pill (truth with a breaking of what appeared to be love) or the blue pill (untruth, but with apparent love), what would you choose in that situation?

Personally I'd choose the red pill.

 

Or another type of love...lets say you're a spiritual person who believes that loving others is the way. But then someone who voted for Trump, who is pro-war, wearing a Pepe the Frog t-shirt, appears. The hatred simmers, and although you're strong enough to not act out on it, the knee jerk reaction is one of tension. Without truth, you'd still think you're capable of loving all people...with truth, you're able to see the ways in which you can better accomplish your ideal.

I don't think it's an either/or, as we've been trained to believe. It's not that truth is an opposite of love, that it's devoid of feeling, or only located in the head...or that love is devoid of truthfulness, is only located in the heart, or is the only fulfilling emotion. There is an emotion related to truthfulness. There's also a type of love that's located in the head...the fraudulent type that simply repeats the word, without living it truthfully.

As for answering the question - would you rather be right or be happy? ...Being wrong isn't a good answer.

Lets talk about happiness, using the marriage/cheating example. Are you happier not knowing that your relationship is worthless to your partner, or are you happier knowing where you actually stand? Some would think that breaking up after being cheated on is a recipe for unhappiness, but I would suggest that continuing a failed relationship where you're unwittingly being cheated on is much worse.

[thelerner]

Truth or love.  They're such different things, its hard to set them as either or. 

 

I find truth is often in the eye of the beholder.  Or rather it can change depending on perspective, ie if you're intimately involved or have more distance, ie with enough distance most things fall into a 'really doesn't matter' category.  Ie, Zepnot on the planet Zolar is sticking his tentacle into Beznot who's not his shnlofmoz.  Do we really care?   we would if we were Zepnot. 

 

With a perspective like mine, I value both, but give an edge to happiness.  Knowing that truths can be rationalized, but happiness is home. 

[dawei]

What is more important:  To ask comparative questions about Truth and Love or just embody everything, accept everything, be everything...  and then lose every concept as meaning... and then come back to see such questions with a deep smile.... 

 

So back to questioning

 

So, you just want an answer?

 

Truth or Love?

 

They are the same... for those who know what each one means.   if pushed to pick one from a manifest thinking, just LOVE EVERYTHING.   Therein is the truth of everything.   And the truth will set you free... as somebody once said

[doc benway]

Some say they are the same thing. In practical situations however, we can differentiate truth and love. A parallel idea may also be "would you rather be right, or be happy"?

 

Is it better to be more asleep and more loving or to be more awake and bitter (not that you have to be, but it's something that sometimes happens) ?

 

What do you think?

 

I think it's all a matter of how we define our terms...

 

The truth is love, if one is actually more awake, they will always be more loving and less bitter. 

 

One can be happy whether right or wrong...

 

I am speaking in absolutes, when we speak in relative terms it gets all twisted.

[Boy]

TRUTH

[Taomeow]

The taoist heart-mind of a real human is one entity.  The conflict (disconnection, fragmentation, split) arises when it's sick, and it gets sick invariably when the human condition is that of being stuck in unreality. 

 

A healthy heart-mind of a real human is not pitching heart against mind or mind against heart.  And neither of them sides with the body against the other or disconnects from the body.  This is the crucial idea of original taoism:  heart-mind expresses the body and the body expresses heart-mind in love and truth, and there is no other way to be healthy and real for a human being.  If they pull in different or even opposite directions, it's a sign of trouble profound and deep -- albeit ubiquitous in our world.

[rene]

The taoist heart-mind of a real human is one entity. The conflict (disconnection, fragmentation, split) arises when it's sick, and it gets sick invariably when the human condition is that of being stuck in unreality.

 

A healthy heart-mind of a real human is not pitching heart against mind or mind against heart. And neither of them sides with the body against the other or disconnects from the body. This is the crucial idea of original taoism: heart-mind expresses the body and the body expresses heart-mind in love and truth, and there is no other way to be healthy and real for a human being. If they pull in different or even opposite directions, it's a sign of trouble profound and deep -- albeit ubiquitous in our world.

Nei xin, yes?

[Taomeow]

Nei xin, yes?

 

Yes , and a few other terms, depending on the aspect of unity under consideration.  It's something like organ-system-function-meaning -- as a process at that -- and its aspects are tackled by many taoist sciences and practices.  But, basically, it's complete harmony between the hidden deep interior, the obvious surface exterior, and the world they interface.

[rene]

Yes , and a few other terms, depending on the aspect of unity under consideration. It's something like organ-system-function-meaning -- as a process at that -- and its aspects are tackled by many taoist sciences and practices. But, basically, it's complete harmony between the hidden deep interior, the obvious surface exterior, and the world they interface.

It is, indeed!

Good holidays to you, sweet friend. (-:

[Taomeow]

Thank you, Rene!  Great holidays to you too. 

[Marblehead]

The truth is more important.  Love will, most often, evolve out of the truth.

[Brian]

One is the obverse of the other.

[Teddy]

Some say they are the same thing. In practical situations however, we can differentiate truth and love. A parallel idea may also be "would you rather be right, or be happy"?

 

Is it better to be more asleep and more loving or to be more awake and bitter (not that you have to be, but it's something that sometimes happens) ?

 

What do you think?

Please explain: when (other than in this thread) does one ever have to choose between truth and love? Edited December 5, 2016 by Teddy

[z00se]

Truth is a foundation of love. If you have a feeling of love which turns out to be based upon lies, you realize that it's not actually love...for instance, lets say you're married but you secretly find out your spouse has been cheating on you for the past year, and you overhear that it's specifically because they think you're boring as a human being. If you didn't find these things out, you'd still be kissing them each morning on your way to work.

If we were to be given the red pill (truth with a breaking of what appeared to be love) or the blue pill (untruth, but with apparent love), what would you choose in that situation?

Personally I'd choose the red pill.

 

Or another type of love...lets say you're a spiritual person who believes that loving others is the way. But then someone who voted for Trump, who is pro-war, wearing a Pepe the Frog t-shirt, appears. The hatred simmers, and although you're strong enough to not act out on it, the knee jerk reaction is one of tension. Without truth, you'd still think you're capable of loving all people...with truth, you're able to see the ways in which you can better accomplish your ideal.

I don't think it's an either/or, as we've been trained to believe. It's not that truth is an opposite of love, that it's devoid of feeling, or only located in the head...or that love is devoid of truthfulness, is only located in the heart, or is the only fulfilling emotion. There is an emotion related to truthfulness. There's also a type of love that's located in the head...the fraudulent type that simply repeats the word, without living it truthfully.

As for answering the question - would you rather be right or be happy? ...Being wrong isn't a good answer.

Lets talk about happiness, using the marriage/cheating example. Are you happier not knowing that your relationship is worthless to your partner, or are you happier knowing where you actually stand? Some would think that breaking up after being cheated on is a recipe for unhappiness, but I would suggest that continuing a failed relationship where you're unwittingly being cheated on is much worse.

 

I am 100% with you here. I often think lack of truth is where love falls over on its self, and bitterness or frustration is what trips over truth. I think its a blending of the two. Love without truth is meaningless, while truth without some greater meaning is also meaningless.

 

Those who are pro love look down on truth defenders as getting in the way, or because they don't hold so high the same lofty ideals as them. Truth seekers despise unconditional love because they make things seem better than they are.

 

The unconditional love hippies keep beating us truth seekers down, and are quiet effective because they draw on the ignorant people, they sway people with their charisma, and they have large numbers of followers. But us truth seekers are strong... We fight back with our facts, our science and prove the ignorance wrong, we stop the hippies ideals turning ridiculous. The hippies dont want to kill anything, but are quietly ok with somebody else doing the killing. Truth seekers dont want to lie, even if it may stop somebody being hurt.

 

Give me the truth and you can keep your love any day

[z00se]

I think unconditional love is like stuffing my face with a giant block of chocolate. I love every mouthful, bit the further i get through the block the truth of me feeling sick after becomes more any more evident, however with every new bite the truth fades away into the bliss of the choc on my tongue. Eventually the block is all gone and im thrust into the first depths of hell and over indulgence

Hippies say that the love is limitless, but money, chocolate or the ability to eat it isn't. Sure one could sit and lick it all day long, but i like to bite and chew chocolate.

 

However i have a strong grip on the truth and it may prevent me from ever eating the choc, and i miss out on that experience. My not partaking in the eating of a birthday cake may lose me friends.

 

Once again.... MODERATION TO THE RESCUE!

[C T]

If more people were to become more aware of what these two principles are and how to express them without any neuroticism getting in the way, there would certainly be an increase in deeper, less contracting and more meaningful relationships all around, both with others (especially among family members) and self. 

 

Personally i think both truth and love nurtures and en-courages those who attempt to discover the length and breadth of each, and in kindling one, the other spontaneously releases its fragrance and spreads it around indiscriminately, sometimes subtle and at other times less so. Both truth and love certainly can work synergistically, without any conflict whatsoever, even so to greater effect when in harmonious union.... like when a flame is brought to sandalwood. 

[Everything]

I think love is more popular? Does that make truth more important? No idea.

Edited December 6, 2016 by Everything

[Everything]

Ok, I figured it out. Truth and love are similar/same.

 

Truth unites all, love unites all. Equally important. Truth leads to love and love leads to truth.

 

But this still is incomplete. Since there should also be allowed for new expressions to be had, new expansion new evolutions.

Edited December 6, 2016 by Everything

[Everything]

The truth is more important.  Love will, most often, evolve out of the truth.

I kinda like that perspective, because then there is stability and yet much variety supported aswell.

[silent thunder]

More important for me to release duality and embody the manifestation of unity awareness.

[Everything]

More important for me to release duality and embody the manifestation of unity awareness.

So by duality u mean what hurts, and by unity awareness u mean what feels good?

Edited December 6, 2016 by Everything