Why do you say "school"?

[awaken]

Does "school" mean 派別 ？

 

If we read the dao classics, we all know that the real classics have no school.

 

They don't say what school they are.

 

There is only one way to reach there.

 

I know many people learn wu Liu pai here, just like mainland china.

 

I have talk with many people who practice wu Liu.

 

They use mind to control the chi to let chi make a circle around body.

 

What I want to say is there is no need to make the circle.

 

The circle would happen in some state of fit.

 

It happen by itself.

 

And then the chi go to another place.

 

The feeling of chi change its face.

 

Chi become material of the change of Shen.

 

All these happen by itself.

 

What we got to do is 回光.

 

Let our focus inside.

 

What I mean "inside' mean 'anywhere', not make a circle chi.

 

We should let our chi free.

 

Let chi go to the place it want to go.

 

Don't control the direction of chi.

 

At first, you may not know where the chi is going to go.

 

But if you insist doing this for one or two hours a day.

 

It will show a trend, a trend of changing.

 

And the trend will let you know that you go the right way because it shows the same way with the dan classics.

[opendao]

Does "school" mean 派別 ？

 

If we read the dao classics, we all know that the real classics have no school.

 

They don't say what school they are.

There is only one way to reach there.

 

I know many people learn wu Liu pai here, just like mainland china.

 

I have talk with many people who practice wu Liu.

 

They use mind to control the chi to let chi make a circle around body.

 

Wrong. In Wu-Liu Pai students do not "use mind to control the chi or to make a circle around body".

 

Moreover, the Patriarch of the School is known for his critical attitude to those who practise such things.

 

It seems you are mistakenly believed some people claimed that they are part of the School, why they are not, so I really suggest to check your source of knowledge because it's not a first time you say false things about Wu-Liu Pai and its teaching.

 

Schools are needed to avoid such mistakes, think about it this way.

 

And all classic Neidan authors had Teachers, and they organised students into schools.

 

Because it's important for the practice of some high levels of the alchemy.

[awaken]

If the wu Liu pai in your town do what you said, it is really good.

 

But I talked with many Chinese, not single one.

 

They put their mind in lower dan tian to control the breathing to make the chi go circle.

 

They say "守竅"

 

They think the 竅 is in the lower dan tian.

 

So they put their mind of breathung in lower dan tian.

 

This way can make the chi go circle.

 

They call it "小周天"

 

But the truth is 竅 is not in lower dan tain.

 

竅 is 玄關一竅.

It appear because of 機

 

If the 機 is not right, 玄關一竅 would not appear.

[Cheshire Cat]

[...]

 

What I want to say is there is no need to make the circle.

 

The circle would happen in some state of fit.

 

It happen by itself.

 

[...]

 

I firstly heard this idea from Bill Bodri and Master Nan Huai Chin and I totally agreed.

 

But today I'm not sure.

 

1) why only the daoists noticed such a bizarre energy movement?

2) why do professional zen meditators often get some sort of Qi-illness that can only be cured by pushing the energy down with the mind?

3) In my experience, the energy only tends to go upward when the mind get emptiness and the body is forgotten.

 

MCO is a specific daoist exercise which is supposed to be done with precise breathing patterns and by swallowing saliva.

[Taoist Texts]

 

 

I know many people learn wu Liu pai here, just like mainland china.

 

I have talk with many people who practice wu Liu.

 

They use mind to control the chi to let chi make a circle around body.

 

Of course they do

 

This is a quote from Liu Huayang who is the Liu in Wu-Liu

 

 

以我之意宰之，以呼吸收之，和合真种，转运法轮

 

"Governing with the mind, ..., rotate the dharma wheel"

 

http://ctext.org/wiki.pl?if=gb&chapter=60761&searchu=%E6%B3%95%E8%BD%AE&remap=gb

 

The ignorami who pretend to be from Wu-liu do not know this.

[awaken]

1. Not only daoist notice this energy movement, Buddha say that, too.

 

In 阿含經，Buddha had mentioned about this, 周流遍身，二禪。

 

Chi go circle body is a temporary state, and it appear by itself.

 

We should not use any methods to control it, or the methods will stop the changes to the next state, 混沌恍惚渺冥

 

2.

 

Because they do meditation only by sitting.

 

Our body have many layers.

 

We should practice all layers.

 

If we practice only by sitting and keep awake, the Exera Yang will make the chi stay in head and make us feel sick.

 

3. Your emptiness is not real emptiness, because you know your body is forgotten.

 

There is "I" out there.

 

After chi move, you need to relax until you forget yourself, not only body.

 

More relaxation is needed to make you go to 混沌恍惚渺冥

Edited December 4, 2016 by awaken

[awaken]

Of course they do

 

This is a quote from Liu Huayang who is the Liu in Wu-Liu

 

 

以我之意宰之，以呼吸收之，和合真种，转运[/size]法[/size]轮[/size]

 

"Governing with the mind, ..., rotate the dharma wheel"[/size]

 

http://ctext.org/wiki.pl?if=gb&chapter=60761&searchu=法轮&remap=gb

 

The ignorami who pretend to be from Wu-liu do not know this.

That is why I say they are wrong.

 

真種should not be used to go circle.

 

真種will make the circle appear by itself sometimes when our 任督 is not very open, but we should not use any methods to make it go circle.

 

Because 真種 should be go deep inside to go 混沌恍惚渺冥溫養.

By 混沌恍惚渺冥溫養, we can open our 玄關一竅，正玄關，虛空玄關the real emptiness.

 

Then the real golden dan will appear.

 

What I say is 應無所住而生其心

 

If we 住 stay our mind in breathing, the evolution will not happen.

 

Our mind should follow the sign.

 

And the sign is changing all the time.

 

We should follow the changes.

Edited December 4, 2016 by awaken

[opendao]

Of course they do

 

This is a quote from Liu Huayang who is the Liu in Wu-Liu

 

 

以我之意宰之，以呼吸收之，和合真种，转运法轮

 

"Governing with the mind, ..., rotate the dharma wheel"

 

http://ctext.org/wiki.pl?if=gb&chapter=60761&searchu=%E6%B3%95%E8%BD%AE&remap=gb

 

The ignorami who pretend to be from Wu-liu do not know this.

 

Arhont, you cannot even translate correctly a simple phrase, but it's not new.

 

My pretensions to be from WLP are easy to check for those who really wants that.

 

But your pretensions to know Neidan have no any foundation: 

 

There is no single book where Wu-Liu Pai method is disclosed.

 

Huimingjing is not an exception. What's written there is not what is practised in Wu-Liu School. So making conclusions about alchemy from the books is a mistake #1.

[opendao]

2) why do professional zen meditators often get some sort of Qi-illness that can only be cured by pushing the energy down with the mind?

 

they use mind and imagination too much

 

3) In my experience, the energy only tends to go upward when the mind get emptiness and the body is forgotten.

 

this is not MCO. It has another name and has no sense for the alchemy.

 

MCO is a specific daoist exercise which is supposed to be done with precise breathing patterns and by swallowing saliva.

 

no, such things have no relation to real MCO. 

Real MCO is a result of Building the Foundation and additional specific work.

 

[opendao]

If the wu Liu pai in your town do what you said, it is really good.

 

But I talked with many Chinese, not single one.

 

what city do they practice and under what teacher?

 

They put their mind in lower dan tian to control the breathing to make the chi go circle.

 

They say "守竅"

 

They think the 竅 is in the lower dan tian.

 

So they put their mind of breathung in lower dan tian.

 

This way can make the chi go circle.

 

They call it "小周天"

 

But the truth is 竅 is not in lower dan tain.

 

竅 is 玄關一竅.

It appear because of 機

 

If the 機 is not right, 玄關一竅 would not appear.

 

If somebody claims to be from Wu-Liu Pai, and after that start teaching the way you described, then simply such person is not from Wu-Liu Pai. Somebody fooled you.

 

Wu-Liu Pai method is not disclosed in books and cannot be taught without formal acceptance to the School. It's a practical thing, part of the teaching mechanism. It cannot be different.

 

What you describe here is just a small part of a lesser method of northern schools (longmenpai etc). You are in the mere beginning. Be careful. Mistakes are easy to get by practising without a teacher, but very hard to mention and fix.

[awaken]

慧命經Huimingjing

 

44 路者，即任督之脈絡也，亦謂之法輪路矣。

 

It says

 

Road, is ren du, is the road of dharma

 

What it says in 慧命經is completely wrong.

 

The real 法輪 is not 轉任督小周天

 

It is 大周天，中脈

 

If you go into 大周天， the real 法輪 will show.

 

The real 法輪 looks like mandala.

 

What the 慧命經 mention is fake 法輪

 

It is called Ying yang in the real dan classics.

[awaken]

If somebody claims to be from Wu-Liu Pai, and after that start teaching the way you described, then simply such person is not from Wu-Liu Pai. Somebody fooled you.

 

Wu-Liu Pai method is not disclosed in books and cannot be taught without formal acceptance to the School. It's a practical thing, part of the teaching mechanism. It cannot be different.

 

What you describe here is just a small part of a lesser method of northern schools (longmenpai etc). You are in the mere beginning. Be careful. Mistakes are easy to get by practising without a teacher, but very hard to mention and fix.

I don't know what kind of wu Liu pai you are.

 

But wu Liu pai's mistakes exit everywhere in wu Liu pai's classics.

 

I saw many wu Liu pai practicer said the same word with you.

 

They said the real teacher is very important.

 

Yes, I aggear that.

 

But they are not real teachers.

 

They teach the wrong way to people and make people waste time to useless methods.

[awaken]

51 陰魔現時，即當以武火煆煉，免其奔馳漏盡之危險。

 

We can find so many mistakes in 慧命經

 

This one is a super big mistake.

 

When Ying 魔 show, we only need to recognize it.知幻即離

 

We should not use 武火big fire to wake ourself.

[opendao]

I don't know what kind of wu Liu pai you are.

 

But wu Liu pai's mistakes exit everywhere in wu Liu pai's classics.

 

I saw many wu Liu pai practicer said the same word with you.

 

They said the real teacher is very important.

 

Yes, I aggear that.

 

But they are not real teachers.

 

They teach the wrong way to people and make people waste time to useless methods.

 

please share names of those charlatans, people will be very thankful to you. 

 

And you read classics wrong, but it has no sense to discuss, you're too sure you are awaken.

[Taoist Texts]

 

 

There is no single book where Wu-Liu Pai method is disclosed.

 

Huimingjing is not an exception. What's written there is not what is practised in Wu-Liu School. 

 

This is really interesting.

 

A while a go they told a story of a 6 year long lie by their teachers. Like one of their Chinese teacher lied to the western student about an exercise being a real deal. "Turns out" it was not.

 

Now they upped the ante by saying that Liu Huayang , whom they claim to be one of their own founders, was lying in his book.

 

They helpfully bolded that part.

[awaken]

忽然溶溶如穀雲，霏霏似春雨，盤旋斂聚於中宮，斯謂之結道胎。

101 蓋舍利登中宮之時，周身如雲之騰，似雨之施，百脈衝和，暢於四肢，急將心目左旋右轉四九而定，右旋左轉四六而定，性命盤聚於中宮，結成道胎矣。

102 安樂太平之禪定，

103 到此無損無失，一得永証。何得不安樂，自然禪定寂靜矣。

104 勿助勿忘而養，勿寂勿照而溫。

105 且初結道胎時，後天之息，本似於有，而不著於有，故曰勿忘。道胎既結，則意在乎其中，寂然不動，又不可隨其昏味，必須常覺常悟，故曰勿照。

106 靜定之中，忽覺一輪浩月懸於當空，

 

So many mistakes,too many....

 

This is not full moon.

 

This is 兔髓

 

兔髓 appear when chi is opening middle dan.

 

I have seen it last for many months many years ago.

 

After the middle dan open, we get into upper dan.

 

Golden chi appears, and then the real full moon show up.

 

Liu is completely wrong.

 

And so many poor people can not recognize what is going on.

 

They think Liu is right and spend all their life to chase the wrong way.

Edited December 4, 2016 by awaken

[idquest]

Huimingjing is not an exception. What's written there is not what is practised in Wu-Liu School. So making conclusions about alchemy from the books is a mistake #1.

 

I'm a bit confused here. I remember you saying numerous times how important it is to study ancient neidan texts. And now this notion above - somewhat mixed messages for me.

[awaken]

please share names of those charlatans, people will be very thankful to you. 

 

And you read classics wrong, but it has no sense to discuss, you're too sure you are awaken.

Obviously, you must be one of wu Liu pai's practicer.

 

I know what you feel.

 

You try to protect your belief.

 

I am really sorry to hurt your belief.

 

But I come here to tell the truth, to tell people the right way.

 

So I would not hide anything.

 

I don't know you all.

 

My English is poor.

 

All the people here is far away from my life.

 

I have no need to make any money from you.

 

So telling the truth to let people go the right way is my goal here.

 

Sorry.

[effilang]

Chi go circle body is a temporary state, and it appear by itself.

We should not use any methods to control it, or the methods will stop the changes to the next state, 混沌恍惚渺冥

 

Because they do meditation only by sitting.

Our body have many layers. We should practice all layers.

If we practice only by sitting and keep awake, the Extra Yang will make the chi stay in head and make us feel sick.

 

Your emptiness is not real emptiness, because you know your body is forgotten.

 

Perfect : )

 

We actually had a case like this recently in our school with one of our newly initiated.

They had a lot of energy stuck in the head and were constantly getting headaches for years.

 

After we started to teach them they have learned now how to relax and found that the energy has begun to move all around the body, ebbing and flowing; from one place to the next; as it should...

 

We have to understand that the mind is "fixed" within the boundaries of its own conscious experiential parameters. It does not know what it does not know, so we cannot employ it to know the unknown - this is redundant.

 

We have to keep an open and relaxed awareness during practice, because any activation of the mind in the early stages will obscure the 玄關 from stabilising.

 

Very nice points, awaken.

Edited December 4, 2016 by effilang

[awaken]

I joined many qq groups in mainland china.

 

I saw many people are misleaded by 慧命經etc. Wu Liu pai's classic.

 

Not one or two, hundreds of people.

 

There are so many Chinese people in qq groups.

 

Too many

 

So I quit from most of dan dao groups.

 

It is too difficult to explain for Chinese what's wrong in wu Liu pai.

 

Some Chinese think what I say is right.

 

They follow me to practice the right way.

 

And I promise them that I will lead them at least for ten years.

 

So you ask me who is cheating me.

 

No one cheat me or liar to me.

 

They are just going the wrong way.

 

They should not read 慧命經, 大成捷要，性命規旨

 

They should read 悟真篇，修真辨難，鍾呂傳道集，重陽全集，黃元吉etc.

[awaken]

55 天心名曰中黃，居於天之正中，一名天罡，一名斗柄，在天為天心，在人為真意。中宮若失真意，猶如臣失君主矣。凡轉法輪之時，必以真意坐於中宮，而為車軸之心，使爪之運轉矣。

56 依乎任督，

57 凡轉法輪之時，意命必須依乎任督而運行，或意行而命不行，或命行而意不行，則不成舍利矣。

 

Another mistake

 

中黃 (middle yellow ) does not base on 任督，it bases on 三田three dan tian.

 

When you open middle dan tian, you would see a view which is fill with strange yellow light.

 

Three dan is in the middle of body , so call 中

 

I can sure that Liu has no 舍利, because he didn't open middle dan.

 

If he open middle dan, he would know what he wrote in 慧命經 is all wrong.

[awaken]

129 見此景至即當移念出定。三界者，下丹田，中宮，頂門謂之三界也。

 

Too many mistakes....

 

三界 欲界，色界，無色界

 

欲界 is already in middle dan tian

 

色界 is still in middle dan tian

 

無色界is in upper dan tian, but not at 頂門

 

Upper dan tian is inside of our head, call the third eye, too.

[opendao]

This is really interesting.

 

A while a go they told a story of a 6 year long lie by their teachers. Like one of their Chinese teacher lied to the western student about an exercise being a real deal. "Turns out" it was not.

 

Now they upped the ante by saying that Liu Huayang , whom they claim to be one of their own founders, was lying in his book.

 

They helpfully bolded that part.

 

no, it's just you who cannot read and know nothing about Neidan close door teaching. 

The method of Wu-Liu Pai is not in the books.

[awaken]

135 且出定之初，萬物不可著，只候自身中一輪金光，現於空中，將法身近於光前，以法聚光，取於法身內，途即法身入於凡身，久久乳汁，則凡身立可化為炁矣。恐不得此金光者，則凡身不能化為炁，故有留身之說者，謂此也。又在德行之故耳。此即萬古不洩之天機，今則洩矣。

 

 

Another mistakes

 

This golden light is not real golden light.

 

It just looks like golden light.

 

Its color is golden, but it is not golden light In dan classics.

 

In dan classics, golden light means the light appears when you go into emptiness.

 

And this fake golden light, I saw it so many times.

 

I know it is not the real golden light.

 

I call it 欲界太陽 or 幻丹, because it appear in 欲界幻境

 

This is not 天機

 

I think that he is too 天真

Edited December 4, 2016 by awaken

[opendao]

Obviously, you must be one of wu Liu pai's practicer.

 

I know what you feel.

 

You try to protect your belief.

 

I am really sorry to hurt your belief.

 

But I come here to tell the truth, to tell people the right way.

 

So I would not hide anything.

 

I don't know you all.

 

My English is poor.

 

All the people here is far away from my life.

 

I have no need to make any money from you.

 

So telling the truth to let people go the right way is my goal here.

 

Sorry.

 

So far you said nothing true about Wu-Liu Pai, nor about its method, so for me these words are empty.

 

I have no beliefs. I have results, so for me it's clear that you're mistaken, and your claims have no relation to the School.

 

There are a lot of qigong people in china who pretend to be Wu-Liu Pai followers. They do seminars, they charge money for that. People without proper understanding of the Tradition fall into their hands. It needs a lot of time and luck to find real Wu-Liu groups in China. Even if you're Chinese.