Why do you say "school"?

[grassmountiansage]

A.A.Khokhlov,

 

Helllo, 

 

I got some questions...

 

 

1. What is history of wu Liu Pai?

2. Who is the head of the sect?

3. What are some of the names of the practices your sect teaches?

4. Do you accept Bai Shee?

5. Do you have anyone in  the lineage that has attained actual immortality?

6. What is the sect's view on rainbow body?

.7 Does the sect teach other things outside of alchemy like healing ex acupuncture? 

 

These are some starting questions for now thank you in advance.

[effilang]

effilang, when in your school at least one student becomes a Xian with Yangshen abilities, we will continue this very respectful conversation.

 

In that case I am waiting for you to continue, but before you do I just want to point out that your above sentence illustrates to me your inexperience with this level of practice.

 

Here is what I mean:

 

A Xian is not something you just become suddenly after some level of practice. It's not an on and off switch and both Yin Shen and Yang Shen skills are cultivated gradually as one progresses; with some of these abilities being triggered during the first day of initiation in our tradition.

 

Every Dao Yu in our school that practices Xian Tian Dao Yin Shu is actively developing their Yang Shen. I will not go into detail about it now, because I'm actually creating some illustrations in the background accompanied by explanations about all this and will be posting them sometime next week, as I am on holiday then and will have time to finish them up. You're more than welcome to have a look if you're curious. They will clarify most of this in much more detail. A picture is worth a thousand words they say : )

 

Furthermore, every single Hu Fa Shen in our school that has been authorized by our celestial head; Tai Shang Lao Jun, is either a Shen Xian or a Tian Xian and so Yang Shen. This is why our initiation during which our master makes a request to Tai Shang whom assigns a Hu Fa Shen to each new apprentice; is our empirical evidence, because each person directly has their Yuan Shen triggered and hey can begin to see, hear, feel, smell and physically interact with their newly assigned teacher. I'm not talking about subjective communication here. We can actually sit and have a conversation with our Hu Fa Shen and ask questions, advice, and receive information which we otherwise do not know on our own. This is also why we can learn more physical arts through Hu Fa Shen, like Martial Arts and why they can guide our body to move, because they can vibrate down to the physical level from Wuji. Every time they guide us, they must also "tune" down their energy so that it can interact with the physical energy in Taiji.

 

Because our Hu Fa Shen are Yang Shen, we do not need to enter a trance for them to connect to us. This is very important, because we do not support or encourage trance systems. One's awareness should always be growing and expanding with your wisdom always developing. You should never practice anything that reduces your consciousness.

 

Here is the definition of a trance:

 

noun

 

1. 1.

   a half-conscious state characterized by an absence of response to external stimuli, typically as induced by hypnosis or entered by a medium.

 

Trance systems lower the awareness and suppress the consciousness of the individual in order to reduce the frequency of their Shen so that it can match that of the possessing spirit. That is why those that practice shamanism always talk about being possessed, but in our school the word possession has a negative connotation.

 

Here is an example of someone entering a trance in a tradition of Daoism, so that the Monkey God can connect to them:

 

Daoist Shamanic Trance Practice 1

Daoist Shamanic Trance Practice 2

 

Just watch how they lose their intelligence and humanity and begin to move like a crazy person.

This can never happen if you connect to a Yang Shen spirit. You will always be lucid, aware and in control and further more a Shen Xian would never require all that ceremony...

 

If someone's Shen is strong and their consciousness is vibrant, a spirit cannot possess or connect to you, because they can't even synchronize to the vibration of a healthy human Shen, so if you must enter a trance and reduce your awareness, it is so that you can make space for the possessing spirit's awareness to enter our body.

 

This is one way to know the quality of the spirit you are connecting to on a very basic level; whether you must enter a half conscious state or whether you can stay completely conscious, aware and able to employ your wisdom and all your beings faculties, physical and spiritual.

 

This is also another reason why it is possible to become susceptible to possession by a spirit if we are shocked, heart-broken, depressed, horrified and terrified. Any condition that severely lowers the vibration of spirit and makes it weak.

 

When our Hu Fa Shen connect to us, we always stay in a completely aware state and our wisdom is always expanding. Their consciousness is far above ours in frequency, so when HFS connect to us, it's them that actually have to lower their vibration to synchronize with us, but its never really on our level so much, they tend to stay just ahead, so that we are always guided to follow them deeper into the Dao and deeper into Wuji. They can connect to us anytime and anywhere on request on the post natal Shen, Jing and Qi level or on the prenatal Shen, Jing and Qi level. They can be seen, heard and felt. None of this is anything fantastical in our school. This is our basic practice that we follow every day when we cultivate. If I posted all the testimonials here from our students, people would think I am writing a fantasy novel.

 

Those who did not cultivate Yang Shen cannot penetrate deeper into the Dao after their physical body dies, because they did not develop their subtle body (Yang Shen) which is the spiritual vehicle, but only their awareness and wisdom. That's why I often talk about fusing the awareness to the Yang Shen to produce the one unit of being which is fully conscious, but also able to exist in the spiritual realm beyond Taiji. The Yang Shen takes time to develop and refine from Hun Shen.

 

There are some basic states:

 

1. Awareness + Physical Body = Conscious Human

2. Awareness + Yang Shen = Conscious Shen Xian

3. Awareness + Yin Shen = Conscious Gui Xian

 

If we are 1, our physical body will die and we will reincarnate. While we are alive the physical body supports the awareness, but because the physical body is a product of the 5 elements and Taiji, it is impermanent and material and thus cannot itself escape the Taiji realm. All things born of Taiji are born, die, decay and are reborn. This condition is cyclic and we will continue to be this way until our wisdom expands beyond material things and we begin to pursue the spiritual. Usually it's around this time that people start to find meditation and start looking for a school or a master as they start to understand there is more to us than just the physical dimension; so they search for a way to connect to that aspect of our being and maybe to develop it with a good method; maybe with your school, maybe with mine. Whatever gives good results.

 

If we are 2, we have begun to develop our spiritual body (Yang Shen) and we have began to fuse our awareness to it, together with all of our being. Everything reverts back to one. Ni and Xiantian Bagua vs Shu and Houtian Bagua.

 

After we have connected or transferred enough of our awareness into the developing Yang Shen, we can begin to infuse it with our own basic will and volition and intellect, all the while also connecting to our own former lifetime information and skill, in addition to cultivating the abilities being born through the maturation of our Yang Shen. That is why they call it a "spiritual birth", because when the Xiao Shen becomes conscious; that is the birth of our awareness within the Yang Shen inside Wuji, and we are delivered from Taiji into Wuji for the first time in our own spiritual body, a body that can sustain our awareness in the spiritual realm (Wuji). The physical body can never achieve it. This is why when Jesus was asked what does it mean to be born again, he answered; to be born into the kingdom of heaven (Wuji), but not in a body of flesh, but a body of the holy spirit (the spirit that is whole: spirit body + awareness). Actually the bible has a lot of references to spiritual cultivation as do many other religions, but they fly way over the head of most people and many of them have been distorted over time. 

 

When our Xiao Shen is born into Wuji for the first time it is just a baby. That is why in some books like Daoist Yoga; their traditions recommend to quickly retract it back into the body, because it is dull (not all the awareness has been fused to it so it lacks basic intellect and reasoning and is naive like a baby and susceptible to attack).

 

In Xiao Yao Pai, we don't worry about retracting our Xiao Shen after it enters Wuji for the first time, because since initiation we are wrapped with our schools divine energy and it has an apotropaic property. In addition to that, Hu Fa Shen is always there to protect us. So we are free to reside in this transformative state and continue to absorb primordial Qi into our Xiao Shen to strengthen its subtle body while we condense more and more into one solid unit. The farther along this process of fusion we go, the more intelligent our Xiao Shen becomes; then our awareness can easily shift between our Yang Shen body and our human spirit, so that we can act in both dimensions consciously.

 

Without developing the Xiao Shen and the Yang Shen, our awareness has nothing to house it in the spiritual realm, so we must reincarnate and try again to find a method to develop the Yang Shen. It requires both wisdom and energy cultivation.

 

If we only develop power, after we die we cannot go deeper into the Dao, we will be forced to reincarnate again sooner or later if we want to try once more to do it fully. Wisdom, Clarity, Gong De and our Subtle Energy Body (Yang Shen) are what determine how deep we can continue to go into the Dao. They must be developed together.

 

I know some Yang Shen spirits that connect to me outside of our school, and their explanation for he connection is that they say they are very strict in character so experiencing my humorous and playful side actually helps them to refine other aspects of their own personality, by observing and feeling how I react to situations in my own life that they did not have the opportunity to experience in theirs.

 

Most people think that Xian are perfect, they are not. Their spiritual Yang Shen body is perfect and yes, they have refined the Yin personality traits such as jealousy, anger, anxiety to their Yang counterparts, but their personality is NOT perfect; the Dao is infinite. They continue to refine and refine. All Daoist Shen Xian preserve a full sensitivity and emotional range. They can cry and also feel love and compassion. You will never find one that cannot feel. Only in the fantasy books.

 

What would be the point of attaining perfection if you were void of feelings? : )

 

Because they are imperfect in this aspect is one reason why they apply to be Hu Fa Shen after they enter Wuji, so they can continue to teach and experience challenges to help them refine themselves even further.

 

While our Hu Fa Shen can perceive the future, the future is relative and always changing. Each Dao Yu is an independent human being with free will. They can change the future at anytime by changing their mind about something, so Hu Fa Shen although knowing what needs to be done through divine wisdom, has to deal with our mind that does not always perceive things on the same level of knowing. So that discrepancy between the Hu Fa Shen and the Dao Yu serves as a challenge to the HFS through which they can refine their personality further and also accumulate Gong De.

 

Every Yang Shen has their own personality and they continue to refine themselves long after their spiritual birth into Wuji. That's why we have many different immortals whom have varying status, authority and power and they all have their personalities. Some very funny, others very strict. Some people think that all immortals have the same demeanor, look on their faces and attitude, but it could not be further from the truth.

 

Usually the life in which they finally gave birth to their Xiao Yang Shen for the first time, and the respective awareness they carried over is how they chose to present themselves consciously.

 

Death is just a continuation of life.

 

So, we must develop our spiritual body to house our awareness in the spiritual realm, otherwise when we die, our awareness has no VEHICLE of its own to move where it wants to go, it will just get sucked back into Taiji ad infinitum. 

 

In Taiji to express ourselves and create, we must use our physical body.

In Wuji to express ourselves and create, we must use our spiritual body (Yang Shen), but we must develop it before we die.

 

If we are 3, then we develop our awareness and some basic subtle body, but because we neglect our wisdom development, we cannot transform further into Yang Shen, because the law of Wuji does not give power to the unwise and the irresponsible.

 

So what happens in this case is when the physical body dies, the awareness has been transferred to an incomplete Yin Shen subtle body. The transfer or fusion is enough in this case to house our awareness in the spiritual realm so that after we die we can actually exercise our volition and voluntarily detach from the automatic reincarnative current of the Taiji law.

 

We can roam about and explore in this state, but we are limited by the quality of our consciousness so we cannot experience the deeper parts of the Dao.

 

To go deeper into the Dao you have to have a pass. The pass for a spirit is the quality of their consciousness and wisdom. So if you have a Level 1 pass because you focused only on developing power and subtle energy, then you will get Level 1 access to the spiritual realms. That is why shamanic systems are not the way, because we must lower our awareness to connect in a trance state instead of raising it higher and higher and increasing the authority of our "pass" in the spiritual realm.

 

IF someone finds themselves in this way, their only option is eventually to of their own accord re-enter Taiji again through the womb of a pregnant mother and begin the life of a human to try and attain Yang Shen. They must work hard to develop their wisdom and refine their acquired Houtian qualities from Yin to Yang.

 

Xiu Xin Yang Xing.

 

So far it has no sense, because you even don't know what I'm talking about... You don't read texts, don't learn in any alchemy school, so how you can know, really?

 

Common man, why do you have to say such silly things. Of course I read, but the emphasis on reading is very different in our tradition, because we understand that we cannot know the Dao through a book. 

 

What is a book? It is someone's personal experiences on a piece of paper.

No matter how much I read about their experiences, It cannot produce my own experiences, just like I cannot experience someones life by reading their diary.

 

We appreciate and recognize the wisdom in texts when we see it, but even when we look at our celestial heads teachings in the Dao De Jing; we take it as his own opinion. Until we verify it ourselves through personal experience, we do not take it as a fact. We do not support any type of belief systems. I've said it before, In Xiao Yao Pai, when one practices well, they should be able to write their own Dao De Jing, but first we must accumulate those experiences and wisdoms ourselves.

 

A book about swimming cannot compare with the experience of taking your clothes off and jumping in the sea, no matter how many people's swimming books you read, no matter how old the book is.

 

So in our school we focus on only what we can experience. That is why I often ask you about evidence, because this is how to prove something, but you always refer me to texts. Anybody can do it. 

 

I've always been upfront with everyone. If they doubt what I say and are looking for a path to follow, they are welcome to attend one of our initiations, where they can experience Yang Shen through a direct connection.

 

If they already have a path they are following, but simply want to come and test to verify if its true, again; they are welcome to attend an initiation where they can get empirical proof about our claims. There is nothing binding and there are no strings attached. It's between you and Tai Shang and anybody can terminate the apprenticeship thereafter if they wish to.

 

Black and White. No bullshit.

 

 

Texts are important because they were written by people who achieved that goals. Some of those people can be met. Some of them teach. How to search, I told. 

 

I don't think I've ever said they are not important, but only stressed how important. Again how one determines the importance of texts will directly correlate to the facilities they have available in their tradition for receiving teaching. In Houtian systems this is usually another human and/or texts and books.

 

In our school while we appreciate that they were "sometimes" written by those that achieved some goals, we receive our transmission directly from the respective Shen and not through their literature. This is the benefit of Xiantian Dao Yin Shu.

 

So I hope it makes more sense now why we don't focus on books as much as Houtian schools, our source of education is from the Xian directly.

 

However, please don't tell me to go search a book for someones else's achievements when I ask you to provide evidence of yours. It's an embarrassingly weak argument and I feel like you can probably do better, going by the confidence you demonstrate in your pronouncements, but again, I can only speculate to this capacity. You know the truth in your heart.

 

 

I said physical Immortality and miracles of Yangshen are possible and anybody can obtain such proofs, and such results for themselves. I got such proofs for myself and shared my own experience a bit. And it's much further then to just read texts, you're inattentive here or biased intentionally...

 

Anybody can obtain such proofs? Where? After how many years?

 

We have a short life, people don't want to practice a system for most of their life to produce proof. Why?

So that after 50 years you can decide if to continue practicing or die having wasted your life?

 

You have to be able to give people the proof NOW on the day, so that they can decide there and there whether to continue with the method or not. One system of spiritual alchemy will take you all your life to master, you can't jump around from one to the other just getting the tips of your toes wet every time. You will never achieve anything. A jack of all trades is a master of none.

 

If a person follows a spiritual system to the end, I don't think they will have time in their life to even test more than one system before they die. So... we must give people the proof on day one. That is why we cultivate, not just for ourselves, but for others. So that we can prove to other's that its real and help them on their way.

 

That is our philosophy, not to waste peoples time. Just black and white. See the evidence, feel it, heart it, know it and then decide if you want to continue studying under your Hu Fa Shen or not.

 

Anybody who calls themselves a senior or a master that cannot offer his type of immediate evidence to a potential candidate, but tells them to practice for 20 years or read some books, in my opinion simply doesn't have any evidence to offer himself, in which case, steer clear.

 

Life is short, look elsewhere for proof. Many schools and masters can offer it, but not all can. Some will enroll you into a program and make you pay them money over and over while you practice what they claim takes a long time to achieve. Its a very convenient business model. If you get one naive student every now and then you can live the rest of your life with a fat bank account. I don't know if your school is like that, but I know others that are.

 

 

You cannot imagine that people can already have own direct experiences with various kind of spirits: own Shen, Yangshen, Yinshen of other persons, demons-Mo, Xian and so on. If people have never even heard about something like this before then your school can probably be surprising. But for those who is looking for Yangshen... all you can offer is a lengthy post that old books are crap because they don't mention your school approach. Which says enough on its own. 

 

So far it has no sense, because you even don't know what I'm talking about... You don't read texts, don't learn in any alchemy school, so how you can know, really?

 

No, I cannot imagine it, because I don't have to. It's part of my daily life and the same goes for the rest of our Dao Yu who practice daily with their Hu Fa Shen.

 

You keep bashing me for my lengthy posts, but keep referring us to lengthy books.

The inconsistency only serves to demonstrate your personal bias against me.

 

And for the record, I've never said that old books are crap because they do not mention our schools approach, wow; common man. Don't stoop so low as to fabricate stuff.

 

You obviously have never really read any of my posts, because I very regularly state that the cornerstone of our school and what differentiates us from Houtian and defines us as Xiantian, is our ability to directly accommodate those looking to connect to a Shen Xian from our school to guide them... I honestly don't know what hat you're pulling this stuff out from, Opendao.

 

Our initiation is for the very purpose of activating a disciples Yuan Shen, inheriting The Divine Guidance Art (Xian Tian Dao Yin Shu), registering them in the celestial register, assigning an authorized Hu Fa Shen (Yang Shen) to guide them and commencing their apprenticeship as a formal student of Tai Shang Lao Jun... What did you think we do, offer cookies, milk and dance in circles, lol?

 

I've never actually attacked your school about anything. I've only just asked you for proof, but you on the other hand love to jump to wild conclusions. Me? I can't say anything about your school, because I do not have personal experience with it. It's that simple. 1 + 1, but that doesn't mean I can't ask you to prove it; and so far you've offered no method to support that you or anyone else has actually achieved the results you keep saying are in someone else's books, whom you've probably never even met yourself or are even sure they existed, because they are dead.

 

Don't take things so personally. If you put yourself out in public and make claims about things, it's only a matter of time before someone asks you to prove it. It's part of being a public figure. If you can't offer any evidence outside of someone else's experiences, it's fine. It's not a big deal.

 

I just don't accept evidence as, check this book, because I'm interested in seeing whether your interpretation of THAT book is accurate enough to produce results that you can demonstrate.

 

In our school we claim to learn directly from the Shen and Tian Xian, and we can prove it by connecting a person to one during initiation so they can have the experience of communicating and learning from one directly. No merry go rounds.....

Edited December 9, 2016 by effilang

[opendao]

Effilang, your really lengthy posts cannot be compared to very laconic books of real Teachers... 

 

People can watch side by side your videos and numerous spontaneous qigong videos on youtube and ask, if they see any difference. 

 

Those who did not cultivate Yang Shen cannot penetrate deeper into the Dao after their physical body dies, because they did not develop their subtle body (Yang Shen) which is the spiritual vehicle, but only their awareness and wisdom. 

 

 

Random quote, but shows very clearly the result of neglecting texts and traditional practice.

 

Yangshen is not a subtle body, and it breaks apart all the long philosophy and argumentation.

[Taoist Texts]

Hey Awaken

 

As you see they are pretending to give you an examination.

 

Like they are professors to whom you should show what you know.

 

Please do not fall into the trap the trolls set up for you.

 

They intend to wear you out, then puff cheeks and tell that you are wrong, to offend you and to make you stop posting.

 

They want to steal your ancestors' heritage.

 

Please do not feed these cultural thieves.

 

if they tell you what to do, just tell them where to go.

 

They do not know anything.

[thelerner]

Effliang, very scholarly and alot to digest.  Thank you for taking the time to write such a detailed account of your system.  

[RiverSnake]

Hello everyone!

 

I'm glad to join the Taobums discussions, especially the current thread as it touches my School.

Being Chief Instructor of Russian WuLiupai and Yuxianpai branches in I am going to share here the key concepts of the Orthodox Neidan Teaching.

 

But first we need to fix our current mistakes and misunderstandings.

 

User "Awaken" has written quite a lot of messages with claims about WuLiupai methodology, WuLiupai Classics, WuLiupai Patriarchs.

 

Symptomatically for the modern world again and again such a claims come from a person who is not a member of any traditional school at all and moreover denies the entire institute of discipleship (both signs are usually enough to finish the discussion in any serous taoist community). So lets start.

 

First of all, Awaken, please take a look below (from Liu Huayang):

 

 

 

 

 

If you've read the texts of Patriarch and find yourself capable to criticize him could you please explain what are these quotes about?

 

Best Regards,

A.A.Khokhlov

 

There is an interviews section here on the TTBs....for systems/instructors whom wish to shed light on there practice. If you wish to give a source for those whom seek further knowledge on your schools teachings as well as a source for individuals to set aside the chaff from the wheat....that may be one avenue you and your school could pursue so further slander and libel does not occur....at-least without some source for clarification. Cheers.  

Edited December 9, 2016 by OldWolf

[opendao]

 

Here is what Liu Huayang, the founder of Wuliu says:

 

今以浅率之言，将佛宝流传，和盘托出，俾世之学者，睹此慧命经，即若亲口相传，只须励志精勤，不必他山求助，则佛果可以立证

 Now, by means of simple, straightforward language, I will pass on the Treasure of the Buddha, offering it as if on a tray to enable followers in the world . As you examine the Huiming Jing it is indeed the same as if I were telling it to you with my own mouth. It is only necessary to rouse your will and dedicate all your energy—you need not go to some other mountain to seek further help—and you will be able to establish and manifest the Buddha Fruit.../Nicholson/

 

 

So who is lying here out of these two? The Wuliu salesman or the Wuliu founder?

 

 

Arhont (aka Taoist Texts and other names) tells on every corner that teachers are not needed, schools are not needed, and one can learn everything from texts.

 

To support such position, he quotes the part from Liu Huayang quoted above.

 

However, what a surprise, Liu Huayang wrote this:

 

夫时者，即吾身中慧命自动时也。古德谓之活子时，其生之机，形如烈火，壮似焰风，非师传授意，息莫能制伏。

 

which clearly says about the necessity of the teacher for a specific practice. 

 

It means that those who cultivate by books, inventing absurd ideas, slandering traditional schools and fool those who are not well versed in the texts - they just cannot read carefully simple phrases.

Edited December 9, 2016 by opendao

[effilang]

Effilang, your really lengthy posts cannot be compared to very laconic books of real Teachers... 

 

Thank you.

 

People can watch side by side your videos and numerous spontaneous qigong videos on youtube and ask, if they see any difference. 

 

Your perception here is very shallow.

 

It's very easy to trigger spontaneous Qigong, one just needs to reach a very high level of relaxation, then the body will automatically begin to correct itself to match its original blueprint.

 

If I have a physical condition that needs my hand to move one way 50 times to alleviate the issue, the movement may be similar in both Spontaneous Qigong and Guided Shen Gong in our school, because the anatomy of the human body is the same in both cases. The difference however is that one movement is triggered by our Hu Fa Shen, while the other by their body, although Hu Fa Shen might decide to employ a different method all together. It really depends on them and the state of your body.

 

To make it clear since you're having a hard time understanding this it seems; we connect to another conscious being (Shen Xian or Tian Xian) to receive instructions, while spontaneous Qigong practitioners simply follow the impulse of their own body.

 

Can you differentiate between a Daoist Shen Xian and someone's own body?

Of course you can't "see" the difference in a video, why would you? - LMAO

 

Yangshen is not a subtle body, and it breaks apart all the long philosophy and argumentation.

 

Again, you're demonstrating your lack of experience with these states. Actually Yang Shen can vibrate on all levels between Wuji and Taiji, so yes it can also be a subtle body at the level of physical (Taiji) Qi. You are just a little tunnel visioned because you are looking at it from a limited perspective, or you clearly wouldn't say these things.

 

We also call the subtle body the complex of the physical Taiji energy that flows through the electromagnetic channel system of the body, but this is physical energy so it will disperse together with the body when it dies. It cannot transcend Taiji, so it is not a focus of spiritual cultivation in our school and does not equate to Yang Shen, however Yang Shen can tune down enough to manifest at this level - which is how Hu Fa Shen guides us during Xiantian Qigong, during which he or she controls our breathing.

 

The word "subtle" just means that something is difficult to describe. You can check the dictionary for that, and believe me Yang Shen is difficult to describe....

 

adjective

 

1. 1.

   (especially of a change or distinction) so delicate or precise as to be difficult to analyse or describe.

 

Your mind Is trapped in philosophical terminology....

 

I'm sure you know all this and probably know I know it too, but you're just making really lame attempts now at trying to contradict me, because you've run out of ammunition and it seems all you like to do is shoot.

 

Oh well : )

 

Here, have some hearts   - Don't be so bitter.

Edited December 9, 2016 by effilang

[effilang]

Effliang, very scholarly and alot to digest.  Thank you for taking the time to write such a detailed account of your system.  

 

Much obliged.

[Walker]

沒有矛盾，慧命經充滿了錯誤

 

I'm crying here. This person compliments a Buddhist-cum-Daoist who is recorded in history as being a student of Liu Huayang. Says that this person is "amazing," "right," and beyond her level.

 

Yettttttttttttttttttttttttttt, at the same time, she insists that the entire Wu-Liu school is and always has been wrong and fake. She insists that the Huimingjing, which Liu Huayang wrote, is all wrong.

 

Asked if she sees the contradiction, she answers, "there is no contradiction."

 

Durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. One doesn't need to be a Wu-Liu student to see that this is ridiculous... right? Right?

 

This is like I'm talking to somebody railing about Christianity, and she tells me, "but have you ever read this book called the Gospel of Paul? It's fucking amazing, it's the best book ever!"

 

"But you understand that Paul was a disciple of Jesus, right? That makes him a Christian."

 

"Oh, yes, yes, I know, that's what I mean, what I have been saying but the corrupt media keeps distorting my words, you see, Christianity is all wrong, Jesus really ought to have been locked up, but have you heard of this Paul guy? Amazing, really beautiful words, Paul, I think we're going to do really big and great things by cultivating together. Paul and I had a lovely phone call last night and, it was just big, the ideas he shared with me. Huge. We're going to make religion great again, and I'm pretty sure that everybody is going to love it."

 

I'm getting ready to give away my record collection and my Ferrari* and just move to the mountains. Clearly Taomeow has been right all these years: airplane vapor trails really are chemtrails. The whole world has been sprayed down with some goop that makes everybody think like Donald Trump. Fuck it, somebody just let me take a toke off the back of a jet engine, so I can get this suffering over with.

 

Since I'm in a chatty mood:

 

Man, Opendao, regardless of who is right or wrong, you should really consider honeying your words a bit. Believe me, I agree with you, Taoist Texts is a troll and frankly speaking an obsessive stalker who seems to feed off of getting under your skin. Dude acts like an asshole, and when he pisses you off, you do, too. You're never gonna win till you stop letting him actually get under your skin. By taking your time to go tit-for-tat with a man-child as though he were a grown man, you elevate his status and lower yours, all the while giving him the stimulation he feeds off of. The guy obviously loves it, otherwise he wouldn't have spent years trying to rub up against you for little thrills! The angrier you seem to be, the happier he gets; you get grumpier, and other people here just unite against you, because they don't like your attitude. This fight is never going to end till you figure out how to "give the [troll] no place to sink its claws." I don't think he'll ever go away, so sooner or later you're just gonna have to learn to ignore him, just like most temples in China give up and stop trying to get rid of the deranged "masters" who camp out in front of big temples.

 

Also, responding solely in the negative when other people offer evidence (and regardless of whether or not you agree with him, Effi deserves credit for painstakingly spelling out his schools' ideas) doesn't do much to convince anybody who isn't already reading the books you read. When you disagree with people, can you a detailed counterpoint, including some information about its textual background and/or the things you have witnessed in your life? Doing so will add depth to these discussions, help other people learn how to consult Daoist books, and increase the general level of harmony on this board. Which is sorely lacking.

 

An example: just above you write, "Yangshen is not a subtle body, and it breaks apart all the long philosophy and argumentation." You've disagreed with Effi, but instead of deepening this discussion, frankly speaking, you're basically saying, "fuck you." You might not mean to be that rude, but I'm pretty sure that that's how people interpret your reactions, and thanks to that, you get into more arguments than debates.

 

How could this go differently? Well, my understanding, which comes from reading Daoists texts including but not limited to the Wu-Liu school, is that what you mean by "yangshen is not a subtle body" is that the achievement of yangshen is marked by being able to manifest a totally physical, substantial body, i.e., something that is not subtle at all. This leads me to some questions:

 

-Is my understanding correct?

-If I'm not correct, can you please tell me where I am wrong, and also let me know which book and chapter I should consult to learn more about this issue?

-In your opinion, are there specific signs of this type of accomplishment that students should look for and expect to see when they are assessing teachers?

-From your standpoint, what is specifically disadvantageous to a person who gets the kind of results that Effi describes?

[Taoist Texts]

 To support such position, he quotes the part from Liu Huayang quoted above.

 

However, what a surprise, Liu Huayang wrote this:

 

夫时者，即吾身中慧命自动时也。古德谓之活子时，其生之机，形如烈火，壮似焰风，非师传授意，息莫能制伏。

 

which clearly says about the necessity of the teacher for a specific practice. 

Is that why you did not translate it? Because it is so clear? LOL

 

So basically you accuse WLP founder of lying somewhere. In one paragraph he says teacher not needed in another - that teacher is needed. Which one is a lie?

[Taoist Texts]

I'm crying here.  

  Believe me, I agree with you, Taoist Texts is a troll and frankly speaking an obsessive stalker who seems to feed off of getting under your skin. Dude acts like an asshole, .. man-child

 

Dont cry Walker, all is well, all is well...when you need a hug you know where to find it:)

[damdao]

(...)

 

How could this go differently? Well, my understanding, which comes from reading Daoists texts including but not limited to the Wu-Liu school, is that what you mean by "yangshen is not a subtle body" is that the achievement of yangshen is marked by being able to manifest a totally physical, substantial body, i.e., something that is not subtle at all. This leads me to some questions:

 

-Is my understanding correct?

-If I'm not correct, can you please tell me where I am wrong, and also let me know which book and chapter I should consult to learn more about this issue?

-In your opinion, are there specific signs of this type of accomplishment that students should look for and expect to see when they are assessing teachers?

-From your standpoint, what is specifically disadvantageous to a person who gets the kind of results that Effi describes?

 

I think this is a good example of someone formulating deep and interesting questions based on extensive reading and thought (I am far from being able to do that yet), and not the simple reaction of questioning without reflection or attention or out mere curiosity.

[Walker]

Dont cry Walker, all is well, all is well...when you need a hug you know where to find it:)

Creepy.

[Taoist Texts]

Creepy.

 

Haha:) What else is creepy besides hugs to you? Kittens?

[opendao]

Is that why you did not translate it? Because it is so clear? LOL

 

So basically you accuse WLP founder of lying somewhere. In one paragraph he says teacher not needed in another - that teacher is needed. Which one is a lie?

 

Yurik, as usually you understood nothing.

 

Teacher is always needed, while the book can help to be sure in the correctness of the practice.

[Taoist Texts]

Teacher is always needed

 

今以浅率之言，将佛宝流传，和盘托出，俾世之学者，睹此慧命经，即若亲口相传，只须励志精勤，不必他山求助，则佛果可以立证

 Now, by means of simple, straightforward language, I will pass on the Treasure of the Buddha, offering it as if on a tray to enable followers in the world . As you examine the Huiming Jing it is indeed the same as if I were telling it to you with my own mouth. It is only necessary to rouse your will and dedicate all your energy—you need not go to some other mountain to seek further help

 

 

So basically you are saying that 'your' founder is lying. Ok, no probs.

[Wu Ming Jen]

What is the color of light, we call it gold. if one was to actually see golden light it is not the light we are talking about,  

 

The light of awareness will dissolve the impurities because what we call impurities will follow the light and get on the right path.

 

In the true light both sides are one, the fake and the real., the pure and the impure But we can not make the pure more pure or less pure.

 

 Cutting up the one light that is always present into many pieces is the source of confusion. It's like adding many different spices to a pot of soup it it just has a bad taste and in the end none enjoys it.

 

I am curious what is awaken's school? I can make a guess but would like to know from her.

[Wu Ming Jen]

I just wanted to share this with those who have everyday effectiveness with internal alchemy that not only enriches their own life but all things are blessed a thousand times over.

 

The great image is imageless...... if one sees any image, throw it away.

 

If any have altered consciousness provoked by self or others meaning that which maybe considered  outside of ourselves (like that is even  possible) trash it . If you see Buddha on your path kill him..... these are all obstacles in the way.

 

Mind feng shui, in the land of nothing what so ever get rid of anything you can trip on and impede movement and stillness at the proper time.

[A.A.Khokhlov]

A.A.Khokhlov I'd love to see some constructive new threads that talk about your practice, its history, as well as simple things, like how it relates to breathing and sitting.  Cause that's the low level that I am.  I don't know much about history, things like immortals and the like are beyond me but, I sit and breathe. 

 

Rather then glom onto Awaken's thread, start one talking about your tradition and practice.  If you created one, I'm sure beyond respectful questions, you'd hope it wouldn't get bogged down by trollish comments or personal criticism. 

 

I love having teachers and dedicated hard core practitioners on this board.  Especially of traditional arts.  It's great to get there perspective but we lose that when threads get bogged down by excessive controversy.  Once someone has stated there opinion, then leave the thread to those who want to pursue it.  Even if you think its an improper path. 

 

Why waste time repeating the same thing over and over on another's thread, which will end up opening your threads to revenge and counter revenge trolls.   

 

There is a famous story in buddhism, about not-empty vessels of a students. Here we have the same situation. The vessel should be empty and clean prior to start before you would be able to start gathering purified qi (and forum posts also have energy in them, yes). So please have some patience, everything will happen soon.

 

Best Regards,

A.A.Khokhlov

[A.A.Khokhlov]

Mr A.A Khokhlov, your student has been very naughty. He needs a stern lecturing *cracks whip*

 

Are you an Instructor in any Taoist School?

 

There is an interviews section here on the TTBs....for systems/instructors whom wish to shed light on there practice. If you wish to give a source for those whom seek further knowledge on your schools teachings as well as a source for individuals to set aside the chaff from the wheat....that may be one avenue you and your school could pursue so further slander and libel does not occur....at-least without some source for clarification. Cheers.  

 

A link would be appreciated.

 

Best Regards,

A.A.Khokhlov

[A.A.Khokhlov]

Hey Awaken

 

As you see they are pretending to give you an examination.

 

Like they are professors to whom you should show what you know.

 

Please do not fall into the trap the trolls set up for you.

 

They intend to wear you out, then puff cheeks and tell that you are wrong, to offend you and to make you stop posting.

 

They want to steal your ancestors' heritage.

 

Please do not feed these cultural thieves.

 

if they tell you what to do, just tell them where to go.

 

They do not know anything.

 

Dear "Taoist Texts",

Aren't you yourself interested in such a check? If you are interested in spreading Real Dao, you should.

So far it seems you would like to get "awaken's dao" spreaded, no matter if it is real or fake.

 

Insightful person can make some conclusions based on that.

 

Best Regards,

A.A.Khokhlov

[A.A.Khokhlov]

Is that why you did not translate it? Because it is so clear? LOL

 

So basically you accuse WLP founder of lying somewhere. In one paragraph he says teacher not needed in another - that teacher is needed. Which one is a lie?

 

So basically you are saying that 'your' founder is lying. Ok, no probs.

 

The paragraphs you are mentioning doesn't contradict each other.

 

It seems the Liu Huayang's text remains completely unclear for you. Patriarch Liu explicitly says:

虽有智贤无所从入 yet you be smart and talented but you wouldn't have a thing to start (enter the teaching).

 

That is what Huimingjing is written for. Not without reason there is a further phrase of Liu Huayang:

此馀苦心求师悟道之本愿也 

It is my vow (yearning) in untiring seek for Teacher and realization of Dao.

 

These words are quite easy to understand, why don't you?

 

Best Regards,

A.A.Khokhlov

[SeekerOfHealing]

Effilang clear post and class. This is how it should be. Hands down with great and down to earth clarification. Thanks for creating an insight in this mess.

[alchemist]

So basically you are saying that 'your' founder is lying. Ok, no probs.

 

Does "Taoist Texts" also consider all Daoist Patriarchs, who wrote in Daozang about the necessity of a Teacher, to be liars?

Edited December 9, 2016 by alchemist