Why do you say "school"?

[A.A.Khokhlov]

I see the main thing "awaken" critiques is so called "earning money". However it is nonsense and I will show all the members why.

 

If "awaken's" claim is against WuLiupai in China - there is no way how she can "help poor chinese WuLiupai students"   by writing on DaoBums.

 

If "awaken" is addressing our Russian students - once again, writing here in English has no sense for them.

 

But if she does it for English-speaking "WuLiupai audience"... - well, WuLiupai School is currently closed for the Western (i.e. English-speaking) world. We don't have a single WuLiupai student in the West, and you can find no any posts about WuLiupai recruiting students in English. It is a directive of our Chinese Masters and we will never do against it.

 

We are teaching our English-speaking students traditional Yangsheng and Orthodox Inner Alchemy by Yuxianpai School (School of Ma Danyang). Hope knowing this now "awaken" is not going to "seek for mistakes" in Wang Chongyang's and Ma Danyang's legacy. 

 

Best Regards,

A.A.Khokhlov

 

P.S. Being official representatives of WuLiupai School we care of it's good name as well as of health and fate of its students.

If "awaken" really wants to help students of any possible WuLiupai imposters in China I publicly ask her to write Chinese names (+ any contacts) of students who she thinks are being fooled and especially - names and contacts of instructors in China who are teaching them. I am willing to recieve the above either publicly or privatly, in PM or by email [email protected]. We will contact these people as well as leaders of our School in China to resolve the situation.

Edited December 9, 2016 by A.A.Khokhlov

[SeekerOfHealing]

First we need come to couple terms about "schools" and traditions per se. The most popular term used for it is Daojia (道家). Taoism itself is natural and free (Xiao Yao Pai is essence of natural or first Taoism) then Daojia appears to by synthetic part of evolution of schools and stuff like this so saying that necessity of schools, teachers, traditions and all that is synthetic form of Taoism which I do not mean by any means or consider as "bad" but some people trying to expel "first" Taoism for sake of synthetic by products know as schools. Schools are not that important nor teachers as Dao itself is a teacher, it's important for humans and for their comfort and natural reaction to organize things - but this is not really Taoism when things are not organized by themselves.

 

@A.A.Khokhlov

 

Why your students bash Xiao Yao Pai without any argumentation - they call it spontenous qigong (without understanding that some practices have similar results or move body like in spontaneous qigong in Wu Liu Pai there are practices like that which looks like spontaneous moves).

 

There are many traditions which have initiation or transmission thru various ways. Texts or divine transmission (xian tian) like in Xiao Yao Pai. In historic example there are many people like Yang Xi who received knowledge directly from immortals. In Ge Hong texts you have many examples of such traditions and experiences so why argue about obvious things?

Edited December 9, 2016 by SeekerOfHealing

[Wells]

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Edited March 2, 2017 by Wells

[munky]

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Edited August 23, 2023 by munky

[RiverSnake]

 

A link would be appreciated.

 

Best Regards,

A.A.Khokhlov

 

 

It's at the top of the Daoist section, but here are the links. 

 

http://www.thedaobums.com/forum/356-interviews/ 

 

http://www.thedaobums.com/forum/413-systems-and-teachers-of/

Edited December 9, 2016 by OldWolf

[A.A.Khokhlov]

First we need come to couple terms about "schools" and traditions per se. The most popular term used for it is Daojia (道家). Taoism itself is natural and free (Xiao Yao Pai is essence of natural or first Taoism) then Daojia appears to by synthetic part of evolution of schools and stuff like this so saying that necessity of schools, teachers, traditions and all that is synthetic form of Taoism which I do not mean by any means or consider as "bad" but some people trying to expel "first" Taoism for sake of synthetic by products know as schools. Schools are not that important nor teachers as Dao itself is a teacher, it's important for humans and for their comfort and natural reaction to organize things - but this is not really Taoism when things are not organized by themselves.

 

@A.A.Khokhlov

 

Why your students bash Xiao Yao Pai without any argumentation - they call it spontenous qigong (without understanding that some practices have similar results or move body like in spontaneous qigong in Wu Liu Pai there are practices like that which looks like spontaneous moves).

 

There are many traditions which have initiation or transmission thru various ways. Texts or divine transmission (xian tian) like in Xiao Yao Pai. In historic example there are many people like Yang Xi who received knowledge directly from immortals. In Ge Hong texts you have many examples of such traditions and experiences so why argue about obvious things?

 

In Taoism there always is a disciple and a Master without exceptions. This tradition goes back to the first recorded baishi of Huangdi becoming a disciple of Guangchengzi.

Yes there were cases when an immortal of the past came to teach later person but it was the same teaching as if they were of one time period. The simpliest example is from WuLiupai School where Liu Huayang has been taught by Wu Chongxu who was born 200 years before Liu Huayang.

 

Tradition knows of no examples of transmission from books.

 

Not sure about Xiao Yao Pai particularly, I will have a look when I have time later.

 

Best Regards,

A.A.Khokhlov

[A.A.Khokhlov]

Nah unfortunately not, so not familiar with how students are disciplined. Like number of lashes etc.

 

 

It's a top job tho, to be an instructor. Why you ask? Do you want to offer me a position? I think would beat my current miserable job. And it would also be an opportunity for me to personally discipline your student.

 

Actually no. You were so confident of what needs to be done with my students so I wondered if you are basing on something...

 

But if you want you may deepen your practice more and more, one day it may lead to becoming a teacher.

 

Best Regards,

A.A.Khokhlov

[A.A.Khokhlov]

I posted it here: http://www.thedaobum...u-liu/?p=723607 

 

It's at the top of the Daoist section, but here are the links. 

 

http://www.thedaobum...56-interviews/ 

 

http://www.thedaobum...nd-teachers-of/

 

Thank you!

 

May I ask why WuLiupai is closed for western students?

 

One of the reasons is that WuLiupai transmission principles doesn't suit modern Western culture well. I.e. it would be extremely hard for people to fulfil the requirements for students. This limitation would have been really pity but later our WuLiupai Teachers in China inroduced us to Patriarch of Yuxianpai School which is a real treasure for the modern world and is much more easier to start practice. It is what we teach our Western students now.

 

Hi AAK,

 

No room for other options?

 

At least no such cases in Taoism history. I also have a personal opinion on this.

 

Look to the original Chinese writings of the ancient immortals. In my own life, I cannot deny the truth of transmission from their impactful words.

 

Even if one can't read Chinese, scanning and contemplating the logograms could be considered a cultivation method. The power of these texts relies solely on their own merit. 

 

Best --

 

Please don't understand me wrong. The treatises have great influence and all our students are studying them. They help in practice and understanding of the taoist principles. However the same writings say that without a true Teacher there is no way for a person to complete the perfection.

 

For example one of the most secret sections of taoist knowledge is the first stage - laying the foundation. Not finishing the first stage how can you get good results in further?

 

Best Regards,

A.A.Khokhlov

Edited December 9, 2016 by A.A.Khokhlov

[Cheshire Cat]

We all have heard about Mopai and the astounding feats of John Chang so -at this point- I would like to know what's the opinion of the traditional daoist schools on this matter.

I've heard that some say Mo-Pai is a side-track and not real neidan.

Edited December 9, 2016 by Cheshire Cat

[SeekerOfHealing]

I once read that Taoist had similar tradition or textual transmission (similar to dzogchen) but thru text. When practitioner find text, the power of text could attain here and there immortality. It was scholarly work which I forgot by Fibrizio. 

[MIchael80]

Dear Aleksey!

 

You wrote:

One of the reasons is that WuLiupai transmission principles doesn't suit modern Western culture well. I.e. it would be extremely hard for people to fulfil the requirements for students. This limitation would have been really pity but later our WuLiupai Teachers in China inroduced us to Patriarch of Yuxianpai School which is a real treasure for the modern world and is much more easier to start practice. It is what we teach our Western students now.

 

But this statement would also be true for russian students.

With wuliupai, would there be exceptions for western students if they would be very serious in their training?

 

(also wrote you a personal message)

best

Michael

Edited December 9, 2016 by MIchael80

[A.A.Khokhlov]

We all have heard about Mopai and the astounding feats of John Chang so -at this point- I would like to know what's the opinion of the traditional daoist schools on this matter.

I've heard that some say Mo-Pai is a side-track and not real neidan.

 

I haven't heard they officially name Mopai an alchemy school. Moreover I'm not familiar with Mopai methods. But I can point your own investigation.

 

Any neidan school must come from a certain ancient master. There are no exclusions of "self-appeared" neidan masters over the ages. So if any school says it has neidan methods it should explicitly point out from whom it has inhereted neidan from. If there is no linage - no alchemy.

 

I once read that Taoist had similar tradition or textual transmission (similar to dzogchen) but thru text. When practitioner find text, the power of text could attain here and there immortality. It was scholarly work which I forgot by Fibrizio. 

 

Haven't heard of anything like this. Such things may have some relation to religious methods like "I pray to Guanyin and will become immortal after death" but it is only belief. The history know of no realized masters without a teacher and a school.

 

Best Regards,

A.A.Khokhlov

[A.A.Khokhlov]

Dear Aleksey!

 

You wrote:

One of the reasons is that WuLiupai transmission principles doesn't suit modern Western culture well. I.e. it would be extremely hard for people to fulfil the requirements for students. This limitation would have been really pity but later our WuLiupai Teachers in China inroduced us to Patriarch of Yuxianpai School which is a real treasure for the modern world and is much more easier to start practice. It is what we teach our Western students now.

 

But this statement would also be true for russian students.

With wuliupai, would there be exceptions for western students if they would be very serious in their training?

 

(also wrote you a personal message)

best

Michael

 

Please see the answer here: http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/42697-yuxianpai-wuliupai-tradition-doctrine/#entry724021

 

Best Regards,

A.A.Khokhlov

[munky]

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Edited August 23, 2023 by munky

[damdao]

 He has brought shame upon your school. In the Chinese TV series Ive seen this would result in expulsion but that's risky. Cos he might turn into a revenge seeking evil taoist.

 

For the record, Opendao has not brough shame upon the school, on the contrary, he helped a lot of people to understand what is neidan and what is not.

[YiYinYiYang]

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Edited August 12, 2017 by YiYinYiYang

[munky]

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Edited August 23, 2023 by munky

[alchemist]

Though I fear the punishment is not severe enough.

 

Ooo you guys seem like opendao's classmates. Make sure to give him a good whipping! Haha

 

Nah unfortunately not, so not familiar with how students are disciplined. Like number of lashes etc.

And it would also be an opportunity for me to personally discipline your student.

 

Mr A.A Khokhlov, your student has been very naughty. He needs a stern lecturing *cracks whip*

 

really weird to see such posts on a Daoist forum. It shows very clear who is behind them.

[YiYinYiYang]

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Edited August 12, 2017 by YiYinYiYang

[munky]

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Edited August 23, 2023 by munky

[YiYinYiYang]

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Edited August 12, 2017 by YiYinYiYang

[Antares]

really weird to see such posts on a Daoist forum. It shows very clear who is behind them.

 

This forum is only "area" where people can share their views on Daoism but frankly speaking how many real Daoists here?

 

Some of us can openly reveal our names and we know genealogy of our Schools and Teachers.

 

But who are these people: munky, taoist texts, awaken... They have no names, no teachers, no schools, no genealogy, but all of them have opinions on Daoism. 

[munky]

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Edited August 23, 2023 by munky

[Mudfoot]

You might find whipping to be more of a traditional Christian religious practice, rather than Daoist.

[munky]

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Edited August 23, 2023 by munky