Liu Huayang

[Taoist Texts]

Hey Awaken

 

As you see they are pretending to give you an examination.

 

Like they are professors to whom you should show what you know.

 

Please do not fall into the trap the trolls set up for you.

 

They intend to wear you out, then puff cheeks and tell that you are wrong, to offend you and to make you stop posting.

 

They want to steal your ancestors' heritage.

 

Please do not feed these cultural thieves.

 

if they tell you what to do, just tell them where to go.

 

They do not know anything.

 

 

Dear "Taoist Texts",

Aren't you yourself interested in such a check? If you are interested in spreading Real Dao, you should.

So far it seems you would like to get "awaken's dao" spreaded, no matter if it is real or fake.

 

Insightful person can make some conclusions based on that.

 

Best Regards,

A.A.Khokhlov

 

 

Please do not stand on ceremony, just TT is fine:)

 

 

Aren't you yourself interested in such a check? If you are interested in spreading Real Dao, you should.

 

 

No i am not interested in spreading the 'real dao', because there is no such thing. Everybody's dao is real for him /her and is none of my business. I speak up only against attacking others and checking others. 

 

 

 "awaken's dao" spreaded, no matter if it is real or fake.

 

 

It is real for her, and whoever thinks otherwise is welcome not to read her posts.

 

 

 

[Taoist Texts]

The paragraphs you are mentioning doesn't contradict each other.

 

It seems the Liu Huayang's text remains completely unclear for you.

 

Patriarch Liu explicitly says:

虽有智贤无所从入 yet you be smart and talented but you wouldn't have a thing to start (enter the teaching).

 

That is what Huimingjing is written for. Not without reason there is a further phrase of Liu Huayang:

此馀苦心求师悟道之本愿也

It is my vow (yearning) in untiring seek for Teacher and realization of Dao.

 

 

The paragraphs you are mentioning doesn't contradict each other.

 

You did not explain how they do not.

 

 

It seems the Liu Huayang's text remains completely unclear for you. 

 

Things are not what they seem in this world;)

 

 

Patriarch Liu explicitly says:

虽有智贤无所从入 yet you be smart and talented but you wouldn't have a thing to start (enter the teaching).

 

 

 

What does 'enter the teaching' mean? 

 

That is what Huimingjing is written for

 

What for exactly?

 

此馀苦心求师悟道之本愿也 

It is my vow (yearning) in untiring seek for Teacher and realization of Dao.

 

 

(Sigh) Please see below

Edited December 9, 2016 by Taoist Texts

[Taoist Texts]

Author's Introduction to the Huiming Jing

 

I, Huayang, was a villager from Hongdu.  As a youth I delighted in Buddhism, so I entered a temple and had an awakening. My thoughts were constantly beyond the mundane world, and whenever I saw the monks I was happy.

 

One day, I heard the temple master say, "Before, at the third watch, the Fifth Patriarch used to privately teach the Tao to the Sixth Patriarch, who would blissfully listen with his ear cocked." I awoke as if from a dream, and only then did I realize that those who cultivate themselves must rely on a teacher. 

 

Consequently, I searched without stopping, my feet leaving tracks throughout Chu,  but through that time I did not meet anyone. After that I joined the Double Lotus Temple [on the River] Wanshui where I shaved my head [to become a monk]. There, I enquired further, and of all the teachers from the three religions there were none I did not investigate. In the end, however, none understood the principles of huiming.

 

As a result I sighed to myself, "Human form is difficult to obtain. Am I to pass my life in vain?" Abruptly, I took a vow to prostrate myself every evening at the drum of the second watch, swear devotion and kow-tow to heaven. I would then surely receive what I sought.

 

Half a year later, luckily I met Master Wu Chongxu, who transmitted the secret meaning to me. With a shock, I completely awoke and understood the Tao of huiming, and that it is none other than my original numinous Substance. 

 

I continued on until I reached Kuanglu, and then met Teacher Huyun. I secretly listened to his introductory discourse, and knew this was an extraordinary man. Diligently and earnestly I listened and learned. Because of my continual mournful pleading, the Teacher finally displayed his broad compassion, and opened my understanding of the subtle and obscure and the mysterious centres therein. There was nothing I did not penetrate completely. When I was on the point of leaving, my Teacher instructed me, "Buddhist dual cultivation now has already disappeared. You must maintain its lifeline in order to save those who have the karmic affinity."

 

I secretly journeyed to Jiangzuo.  Together with two or three Taoist companions we burned incense and cultivated ourselves, studying in detail, and as a result Bichan, Liaoran, Qiongyu and Zhenyuan attained Sarira.

 

Because I had a wordless understanding with my Teacher, I compiled this book, whose title is the Huiming Jing. The charts and illustrations establish signs that open up the secrets of the ancient Buddhas, revealing the Primordial Inner Workings of the teacher-patriarchs—they are a raft that will truly guide later generations of students.

 

I observe among the seekers of the Tao of the world there are the discourse-records of many schools. In these records there is truthful language and there is delusive language. Beginning students do not know the Tao of huiming of the Tathagata, so they mistakenly become ensnared in slogans and superficial oral Chan, and end up as base fools, repeatedly reaping harm from these records. 

 

I have thoroughly examined the various scriptures, and verified this with my Teacher: there are the Surahgama-sutra, the Avatamsaka-sutra and the Platform Sutra, which are truthful language. 

 

The discourses of Chan masters and of monks are false language. If the Tao of cultivation and practice is not in truthful language, it is not able to verify the real truth and is not enough to get rid of empty delusion. *If empty delusion is victorious, then evil hindrances arise. Even if you have intelligence, there is nothing to follow or enter into.*

 

The Tao of huiming, which comes down from one hundred thousand years,

profoundly secret and transmitted exclusively, is ultimately difficult to peer into and realize. 

 

Now, by means of simple, straightforward language, I will pass on the Treasure of the Buddha, offering it as if on a tray to enable followers in the world … As you examine the Huiming Jing it is indeed the same as if I were telling it  to you with my own mouth. 

 

It is only necessary to rouse your will and dedicate all your energy—you need not go to some other mountain to seek further help—and you will be able to establish and manifest the Buddha Fruit.  *This was my original intent in toiling bitterly to find a teacher and awaken to the Tao.*

 

 

Introduction transmitted in the summer of the year jiayin of in the reign of the emperor Qianlong,37 at Hukou,3S by Liu Huayang of Mount Lu, [written down] at the Temple of Dedication and Purity in Wancheng.

 

/ THE HUIMING JING: A TRANSLATION AND DISCUSSION By JAMES MICHAEL NICHOLSON B.A., The University of Victoria, 1993 A THESIS SUBMITTED IN PARTIAL FULFILMENT OF THE REQUIREMENTS FOR THE DEGREE OF MASTER OF ARTS in THE FACULTY OF GRADUATE STUDIES  (Department of Asian Studies)/

Edited December 9, 2016 by Taoist Texts

[Taoist Texts]

1) Now we are waiting for post against "awaken's" critique of WuLiupai from you.

 

 

2) Everyone's dao is the same indeed. First person is getting born, then becoming adult, becoming old, getting illnesses and finally dies. None of above is a subject of change except the case person is practicing Real Dao - from old getting young, from sick getting healthy, escaping from death and becomming an immortal.

 

3) Isn't it your "dao" to avoid reading any posts you dislike? And it is mine to read anything being written publicly and respond according to forum rules.

 

1) Now we are waiting for post against "awaken's" critique of WuLiupai from you.

 

Please do not . A. WLP is not a person and not a member of this forum. B Critique of a school is good, personal attacks are bad.

 

 

2)   except the case person is practicing Real Dao - from old getting young, from sick getting healthy, escaping from death and becomming an immortal. 

 

You must be practicing a long time already. Are you getting any younger?

 

3) Isn't it your "dao" to avoid reading any posts you dislike? 

 

My dao is to check the checkers, and to judge the judges.

[A.A.Khokhlov]

You did not explain how they do not.

 

Taking the translation you suggested, Liu Huayang said that reading is like he is speaking to you.

It doesn't mean that you don't need a teacher 

 

 

 

What does 'enter the teaching' mean? 

 

It is traditional term meaning becoming a student of a school.

 

 

 

What for exactly?

 

Helping talented person become a student of real teacher.

 

 

 

Please see below

 

Please be more specific.

 

Best Regards,

A.A.Khokhlov

[Taoist Texts]

Does "Taoist Texts" also consider all Daoist Patriarchs, who wrote in Daozang about the necessity of a Teacher, to be liars?

I dont know. Provide a quote and we will see;)

[A.A.Khokhlov]

1) Now we are waiting for post against "awaken's" critique of WuLiupai from you.

 

Please do not . A. WLP is not a person and not a member of this forum. B Critique of a school is good, personal attacks are bad.

 

 

2)   except the case person is practicing Real Dao - from old getting young, from sick getting healthy, escaping from death and becomming an immortal. 

 

You must be practicing a long time already. Are you getting any younger?

 

3) Isn't it your "dao" to avoid reading any posts you dislike? 

 

My dao is to check the checkers, and to judge the judges.

 

1. You are wrong. WuLiupai consists of its students who are like brothers and sisters in a big family. And WuLiupai is a family name. Is it enough for you to understand?

2. Yes. Not only me, as much time passed since we started in Russia, we now having more and more students achieving real alchemic results. No more questions about it please (I have some commitments).

3. It is up to moderators. The cirlce is infinit - check checkers of checkers and so on.

 

Best Regards,

A.A.Khokhlov

[Taoist Texts]

2. Yes. Not only me, as much time passed since we started in Russia, we now having more and more students achieving real alchemic results.  

 

 

Prove it.

[Taoist Texts]

1. You are wrong. WuLiupai consists of its students who are like brothers and sisters in a big family. And WuLiupai is a family name. Is it enough for you to understand?

 

 

Hmm. I do understand. What you say is absurd.

[Taoist Texts]

Helping talented person become a student of real teacher.

 

 

How exactly?

[Taoist Texts]

Taking the translation you suggested, Liu Huayang said that reading is like he is speaking to you.

It doesn't mean that you don't need a teacher 

 

Why do i need another teacher if the Patriarch himself is speaking to me?

[Antares]

Prove it.

 

What about to make a commitment to enter any real Daoist school and get your owm results rather than constantly asking to prove everything to you? "A journey of the thousand miles beging with a single step..." What will be your single step, check checkers of the checkers?   

Edited December 9, 2016 by Antares

[Taoist Texts]

It is traditional term meaning becoming a student of a school.

 

 

Please be more specific.

 

More specifically you mistranslated and misunderstood these simple phrases

 

 

Patriarch Liu explicitly says:

虽有智贤无所从入 yet you be smart and talented but you wouldn't have a thing to start (enter the teaching).

 

This phrase has nothing to do with entering a school or needing a teacher. It is an attack on Chan.

 

The discourses of Chan masters and of monks are false language. If the Tao of cultivation and practice is not in truthful language, it is not able to verify the real truth and is not enough to get rid of empty delusion. *If empty delusion is victorious, then evil hindrances arise. Even if you have intelligence, there is nothing to follow or enter into.*

 

禅师语录，和尚语录，乃妄语也。夫修炼之道，非实语不足证真诠，非实语不足以辟虚妄。虚妄胜则魔障生，虽有智贤，无所从入。

 

 

 

 

 

 

此馀苦心求师悟道之本愿也 

It is my vow (yearning) in untiring seek for Teacher and realization of Dao.

 

 

This phrase has nothing to do with future students seeking a teacher. It is explanation of why he sought a teacher: so he can write a book that replaces a teacher.

 

It is only necessary to rouse your will and dedicate all your energy—you need not go to some other mountain to seek further help—and you will be able to establish and manifest the Buddha Fruit.  *This was my original intent in toiling bitterly to find a teacher and awaken to the Tao.*

 

今以浅率之言，将佛宝流传，和盘托出，俾世之学者，睹此慧命经，即若亲口相传，只须励志精勤，不必他山求助，则佛果可以立证，此余若心求师悟道之本愿也。

 

You just proved that you do not understand chinese and do not understand the book of your founder.

 

Specific enough?

[Taoist Texts]

What about to make a commitment ...    

 

So you have no proof. Misleading advertisement is all you got. You must be laughing at those who fell for it. Me to. Ha-ha.

[Taoist Texts]

What about to make a commitment to enter any real Daoist school and get your owm results 

 

Why? I am a teacher myself and got my own results long time ago. So thanks but no thanks.

[A.A.Khokhlov]

Okay.

 

How exactly?

 

By reading and understanding the text, obviousely. Especially parts about necessity of a Teacher.

 

Why do i need another teacher if the Patriarch himself is speaking to me?

 

Simple. Because speak is not the same word with teach. 

 

More specifically you mistranslated and misunderstood these simple phrases

 

Specify please which phrase was mistranslated.

 

This phrase has nothing to do with entering a school or needing a teacher. It is an attack on Chan.

 

Attack of Chan's impossibility to even start the practice without having a true teacher 

 

This phrase has nothing to do with future students seeking a teacher. It is explanation of why he sought a teacher: so he can write a book that replaces a teacher.

 

Okay. And why has he written it in his book if you don't need a teacher anymore?

Edited December 9, 2016 by A.A.Khokhlov

[A.A.Khokhlov]

I dont know. Provide a quote and we will see;)

 

1. 張伯端 Zhang Boduan 

 

饶君聪慧过颜闵，不遇真师莫强猜。

 

Even if your abundant wisdom surpasses the knowledge of Yan and Min,

Without meeting a true teacher you shouldn't just stubbornly make guesses.

 

只为金丹无口诀，教君何处结灵胎。

 

Only practicing "golden elixir" without a verbal teaching,

From what place would you learn how to concieve the spiritual fetus?

[Taoist Texts]

If a great scientist is speaking to you does it make you a scientist to? 

Yes.

[Taoist Texts]

 

1. 張伯端 Zhang Boduan 

 

饶君聪慧过颜闵，不遇真师莫强猜。

 

Even if your abundant wisdom surpasses the knowledge of Yan and Min,

Without meeting a true teacher you shouldn't just stubbornly make guesses.

I dont make guesses I know with certainty from books. This verse does not say that only way to study is with a teacher.

 

 

只为金丹无口诀，

 

Only practicing "golden elixir" without a verbal teaching,

 

 

 

See? This says that I can make golden elixir without a verbal teaching.

教君何处结灵胎。

 

From what place would you learn how to concieve the spiritual fetus?

 

 

Thats a very very bad translation.)

[awaken]

1. 張伯端 [/size]Zhang Boduan 

 

饶君聪慧过颜闵，不遇真师莫强猜。

 

 

Even if your abundant wisdom surpasses the knowledge of Yan and Min,

Without meeting a true teacher you shouldn't just stubbornly make guesses.

 

 

只为金丹无口诀，教君何处结灵胎。

 

 

Only practicing "golden elixir" without a verbal teaching,

From what place would you learn how to concieve the spiritual fetus?

 

The key point is the "true" teacher, not a blind teacher.

 

以盲導盲，傷人慧命

[Taoist Texts]

#17 i simply do not understand what you are saying.

[awaken]

I dont make guesses I know with certainty from books. This verse does not say that only way to study is with a teacher.

 

 

See? This says that I can make golden elixir without a verbal teaching.

 

 Thats a very very bad translation.)

Yes, that translate is not match the meaning.

[awaken]

只为金丹无口诀，教君何处结灵胎。

 

 

Only practicing "golden elixir" without a verbal teaching,

From what place would you learn how to concieve the spiritual fetus?

 

-------

 

Let me try to rewrite it.

 

Because there is no verbal teaching in golden dan to let you know where to curdle the 靈胎

[awaken]

Some wu Liu pai's practicer told what 靈胎 they saw.

 

It is totally different from 黃庭經

 

But they call that is a success.

[Taoist Texts]

Tradition knows of no examples of transmission from books.

Maybe tradition does not, but Liu Huayang does. I learned it from him.