Liu Huayang

[A.A.Khokhlov]

I do not sure who you  are addressing but your lengthy post above is just a spam. There is 2 reasons why you leave the paragraphs above untranslated , giving a false interpretation instead.

A. In your ignorance you do not know how to translate properly. B. If  translated fully - the falsity of your views will be obvious.

 

It is very easy to prove

 

 

 

 

 

What is 學者之十迷九八? What is 實難知之矣。?

 

Unfortunately here we see one more nonsense passage from you.

 

But lets check.

 

學者之十迷九八

Out of 10 learners 9 or 8 are confusing [themselves].

 

實難知之矣

Truly impossible to understand that.

[Taoist Texts]

 

Of course we are recognized. And even now if you talk to CTA officials in Beijing and epsecially in some specific regions (I won't name you which) .... have to visit our main branch in Saint-Petersburg. But particularly you would be left profane, not admitted into the Temple.

 

You just admitted you got nothing:)

[A.A.Khokhlov]

Unfortunately here we see one more nonsense passage from you.

 

But lets check.

 

學者之十迷九八

Out of 10 learners 9 or 8 are confusing [themselves].

 

實難知之矣

Truly impossible to understand that.

 

So "Taoist Texts" did you finally manage to understand what Taoist Patriarchs are talking us about?

[A.A.Khokhlov]

So "Taoist texts" you say you are "practicing" by yourself - no school, teacher, nothing and "got your results".

Lets see what understanding a person can get without a True Teacher:

 

Please decribe the houtian bagua sequence from the alchemy practice perspective.

 

Best Regards,

A.A.Khokhlov

[Taoist Texts]

 

Unfortunately 

 

You are welcome to stay away from my thread ( hint hint)

 

學者之十迷九八

Out of 10 learners 9 or 8 are confusing [themselves].

 

 

 

Thats very good. 8 are not so bright, they need a teacher. But what true teacher will take dim students? And how can dim students be successful? But 1 is a real genius, he does not need teachers. A genius like myself. So you just proved yourself incorrect saying that learning on ones own or from a book is impossible for everybody. Good job AA.

 

 

實難知之矣

Truly impossible to understand that.

 

 

 

No, this is wrong

 

難

1. difficult; hard 為人父母很難。 / 为人父母很难。  ―  Wéirén fùmǔ hěn nán.  ―  it is difficult being a parent. 這項工作非常難。 / 这项工作非常难。  ―  Zhè xiàng gōngzuò fēicháng nán.  ―  This job is very hard.   Nan is not impossible, it is hard. Can you see the difference? It is truly hard, Which is the way it should be. Hard but quite possible. So you are incorrect on two counts: translation and understanding. Have a better  luck in the next life AA!

[Taoist Texts]

So "Taoist texts" you say you are "practicing" by yourself - no school, teacher, nothing and "got your results".

Lets see what understanding a person can get without a True Teacher:

 

Please decribe the houtian bagua sequence from the alchemy practice perspective.

 

 

You keep begging for freebie lessons. No go. You have to pay tuition like everybody else.

 

Look at these fellas always trying to get away with something. No way Hosay.

[effilang]

Hello A.A.Khokhlov,

 

Thank you for joining the forum and sharing your ideas with us. It has been really refreshing to see a represenative of Wu Liu Pai on the Tao Bums that carries himself with respect and integrity, and I appreciate you taking your time to reply to everyone's questions in such a way as to trigger productive debates and stimulate thinking.

 

One of your posts stood out to me as It juxtaposes very contrastingly with Xiantian practice in my school. While I appreciate and understand the necessity for this approach in Houtian, how do you reconcile this with the fact that almost all masters were buried or cremated?

 

Is it necessary to escape physical death to become an immortal?

 

What is the correlation between escaping physical death and spiritual immortality?

Isn't life part of the process of cultivation itself which goes on even when immortality is being cultivated.

Why do we have to escape at all? What is there to escape from?

 

In houtian xiulian, it seems that one of the main purposes of actively maintaining and attempting to maximize ones physical lifespan is a facility employed with the understanding that the cultivation of the subtle immortal spirit (Yang Shen) to the point of sufficient maturity, can be a very lengthy task, often decorated with many failures and re-tries, therefore it would behoove one to maintain the basis for this transformation healthy as long as is necessary for the Yang spirit to mature so that it can be consciously operated.

 

Do you think that it's possible this is the purpose of all the extensive physical regiments in houtian, as opposed to turning the material body into the immaterial? Didn't Zhang Boduan say somewhere that the material cannot beget the immaterial, making a differentiation between those that cultivate the impermanent post natal essence and those that trigger the cultivation of the prenatal essence, which leads to true attainment?

 

In my experience physical matter born from Taichi, governed by the laws of Yin and Yang itself; such as a human beings that are formed of the 5 elements, cannot pass through the Xuan Guan and enter Wuji. Even the highest post natal energy of Shen in the human body cannot pass through Xuan Guan, which is why we must detach from the 5 thieves. Only the immaterial spirits residing in/out of the body can do this - OR, do you maintain that the physical mass and tissues of the body are transformed into immortalized spiritual essence that merge with our developing Yang Shen, the essence of which both come together to form one being?

 

Again if this is the standard for transformation in spiritual Daoism, then how come so many of the old masters were buried and cremated?

 

Even if we look at Daoist schools today. Whose school had Benjamin Button for a master and if they could live without aging or sickness, why didn't they simply continue to teach to benefit humanity?

 

Most immortals spend a vast majority of their time (they are beyond spacetime) in helping other beings and humans. Why throw away the convenience of a life born on earth, where the body has been cultivated to a state where it cannot die or age or feel sickness, and they have spiritual powers and continue to use it to help people, rather than to abandon a young and vibrant body of 90 years of age, exit Taichi, enter Wuji and then proceed to guide people from that dimension where even vibrating down from the absolute to enter the relative realm on Earth burns off Gong De?

It seems like a ridiculously inefficient decision from someone who at that level should be incredibly wise and filled with a desire to help other beings awaken, as is evidenced by the activity of immortals. What better place to do it that on earth? The human condition is perfect for it. Yet, somehow we see quite the opposite with most of masters dying quite early.

 

Zhang Daoling died around 122, but today there are some people who have lived to that age also that probably have never heard of Daoism. Legend says he turned into fairy dust and leaped up into the heavens with his body disappearing, but as you know, legend says that legend says that legend says. There is no proof. 

 

If I am not mistaken Zhang Boduan also died before he even reached 100.

 

Furthermore if there are still so many authentic Daoist schools who carry on the TRUE teachings as many of them claim and have been doing so for 100s or thousands of years, then where are their masters that were never burried or their students that followed the true way of the immortals and never died? There are many Daoist schools and temples today, where can we find these guys that do not age and die like everybody else, even when they are the official representatives of their ancient lineages?

 

I'd love to know what you think of these discrepancies between cultivating the material body as a means of reaching the spirit vs cultivating the spirit directly and allowing the physical body to die in Taiji and return to the earth following nature.

 

In my tradition we focus almost fully on the cultivation of the immaterial spirit, because in our experience this is the only type of energy that can penetrate into Wuji and is suitable to form a whole with our awareness, so that  both can exist as one vehicle: Awareness + Spiritual Body. Having said that, we also we also practice charity, live in society so we can develop our intellect and basic wisdom and perform humanitarian activities and contribute to society to help the lives of others.

 

I'm curious to know what you think.

 

Hi Mr. Khokhlov,

 

I know that there's been a lot of posts flying left and right, so you might have missed this one.

I'm just re-posting it here, because I'm genuinely curious about your thoughts on the matter.

 

Do you think you'll have time to answer it in the near future?

Thank you in advance : )

[awaken]

his teacher teaches him De, which is a result of the practice, so the practice creates De. It's not about translation.

 

It means you're arguing without understanding what was said.

I know what you mean now.

 

But it is still not because of cultivating.

 

It is because of 悟 wu-Wei.

 

But I do not know how to translate 悟

 

You have to 悟 the way of wu-Wei.

 

And then you cultivate in wu-Wei, you live in wu-Wei life style.

 

All your things include politics run in wu-Wei.

 

The methods of breathe will not make you have the result of de.

 

 

You misunderstand dao de Jin so much.

 

You have to live in dao de Jin for many years.

 

All your decisions related to the choice of your life must be in dao de Jin.

 

Then you just can claim that you understand dao de Jin.

 

Or you just a reader.

 

You read a book and share your thoughts, but you do not let the concepts go into your real daily life.

 

What I told you is a teacher's teaching.

 

But you do not have a attitude of a good student.

 

大道廢，有仁義

 

故so失道losing dao 而後德and then comes de, 失德而後仁losing de and then comes ren, 失仁而後義losing ren and then comes yi, 失義而後禮losing yi and then comes manners

 

The way people ask questions here lose everything, just a little bit of manners left.

 

 

Dao is an attitude of life , not a methods of making chi skills.

Edited December 10, 2016 by awaken

[A.A.Khokhlov]

Hi Mr. Khokhlov,

 

I know that there's been a lot of posts flying left and right, so you might have missed this one.

I'm just re-posting it here, because I'm genuinely curious about your thoughts on the matter.

 

Do you think you'll have time to answer it in the near future?

Thank you in advance : )

Please see here: http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/42697-yuxianpai-wuliupai-tradition-doctrine/#entry724202

 

Best Regards,

A.A.Khokhlov

[alchemist]

I know what you mean now.

 

But it is still not because of cultivating.

 

It is because of 悟 wu-Wei.

 

But I do not know how to translate 悟

 

You have to 悟 the way of wu-Wei.

 

And then you cultivate in wu-Wei, you live in wu-Wei life style.

 

All your things include politics run in wu-Wei.

 

The methods of breathe will not make you have the result of de.

 

 

You misunderstand dao de Jin so much.

 

You have to live in dao de Jin for many years.

 

All your decisions related to the choice of your life must be in dao de Jin.

 

Then you just can claim that you understand dao de Jin.

 

Or you just a reader.

 

You read a book and share your thoughts, but you do not let the concepts go into your real daily life.

 

What I told you is a teacher's teaching.

 

But you do not have a attitude of a good student.

 

大道廢，有仁義

 

故失道而後德，失德而後仁，失仁而後義，失義而後禮。

 

The way people ask questions here lose everything, just a little bit of manners left.

Too many claims and no single answer. If you are a teacher, could you please answer a question about houtian bagua?

[Taoist Texts]

The way people ask questions here lose everything, just a little bit of manners left.

 

Some people want free lessons because their teachers have not teach them anything, despite all the money they took. So now they wander around on the internet begging for freebies.

[awaken]

Too many claims and no single answer. If you are a teacher, could you please answer a question about houtian bagua?

If you want me to answer your questions, You must be my student first.

 

I am not your teacher.

 

I do not take any money from you.

 

I do not like the kind of student.

 

No manners.

 

If you do not have dao, you should have manners at least.

 

You do not have a attitude of a student should be.

 

If I am forced to accept a student like you, I must teach you the manners first.

Edited December 10, 2016 by awaken

[awaken]

Some people just don't have answers and thus try to avoid answering questions. Unfortunately for them, they can fool nobody except themselves.

If you want an answer, good relations is needed.

 

That is very basic.

 

I think that everyone should know it.

 

Unless you do not want the answer, you just want to show you are always right .

[Taoist Texts]

Yes, also this is just plain silly. Neidan or daoism is about getting yangshen. what on earth could trigrams do with it?

[awaken]

How funny that a person started with insulting a traditional neidan School now blaming others for having no manners.

But at the bottom line the only thing that matters is that you have no answer too.

这句话自古流传很广，有很多版本，如：“小隐隐于野，中隐隐于市，大隐隐于朝。”；“小隐在山林，大隐于市朝。”等，说的都是一个意思：那些所谓的隐士看破红尘隐居于山林是只是形式上的“隐”而已,而真正达到物我两忘的心境，反而能在最世俗的市朝中排除嘈杂的干扰，自得其乐，因此他们隐居于市朝才是心灵上真正的升华所在。

意思是说有能力的人希望依赖周围的环境忘却世事，沉湎于桃源世外，这是指小隐

真正有能力的人却是匿于市井之中，那里才是藏龙卧虎之地，这是指中隐

只有顶尖的人才会隐身于朝野之中，他们虽处于喧嚣的时政，却能大智若愚、淡然处之，这才是真正的隐者

至于出处，我只知道是魏晋时期民间流传的，好像没说出自那本书吧！有的话可能也是魏晋以后的了呵呵

也大概是句俗语，古已有之，所以要追究是哪一个人最先说的，恐怕不易。不过从白话意义上说我想可能是唐朝诗人白居易的诗作《中隐》最先把它通俗易懂地归纳出来。

你可以读一下：

 

白居易《中隐》

 

大隐住朝市,小隐入丘樊。

丘樊太冷落,朝市太嚣喧。

不如作中隐,隐在留司官。

似出复似处,非忙亦非闲。

唯此中隐士,致身吉且安

 

还有一种说法

 

...大隐隐于朝，中隐隐于市，小隐隐于野。出自孔子的"古训"

其实隐者本无大小之分，退而隐，原本已然抛弃了红尘俗事，哪管的旁人指指点点？！又怎会在意是大隐还是小隐？！这和禅宗的佛理有异曲同工之妙,看中的是内心清静的本质,而不是出家在家的形式

愿能结芦山野，退而隐，依木闲坐，隐而狂。

何时能，披发仗剑破门去，采菊南山香满襟。

 

也有人说是出自老子的<道德经>

 

 

Western people only learn dan dao from schools.

 

But Chinese people have a lot of chances to learn from the place you do not know.

 

In dan dao classics, we often find that many achiever do not learn from schools.

 

They just learn from someone meet on the street.

 

So Chinese said " 三人行，必有我師焉"

 

When three people walk together, there must be something I can learn.

 

 

And Chinese do not have the religion war, because they have an open mind in religion.

 

Chang bou duan did not just learn from school.

 

He learned a lot from Buddhism , yii jin, etc.

 

無為無不為

 

If you are a cultivator , you should have a attitude of open mind.

Edited December 10, 2016 by awaken

[A.A.Khokhlov]

 

You are welcome to stay away from my thread ( hint hint)

 

 

 

Thats very good. 8 are not so bright, they need a teacher. But what true teacher will take dim students? And how can dim students be successful? But 1 is a real genius, he does not need teachers. A genius like myself. So you just proved yourself incorrect saying that learning on ones own or from a book is impossible for everybody. Good job AA.

 

 

No, this is wrong

 

難

1. difficult; hard 為人父母很難。 / 为人父母很难。  ―  Wéirén fùmǔ hěn nán.  ―  it is difficult being a parent. 這項工作非常難。 / 这项工作非常难。  ―  Zhè xiàng gōngzuò fēicháng nán.  ―  This job is very hard.   Nan is not impossible, it is hard. Can you see the difference? It is truly hard, Which is the way it should be. Hard but quite possible. So you are incorrect on two counts: translation and understanding. Have a better  luck in the next life AA!

 

 

It was one more simpliest check for our unique super-puper not understanding pro-fanus.

 

8-9 of 10 would be completely confused (you are obviously among them, see below) and 1-2 probably would be able understand necessity and a way how to find a Teacher. Otherwise... - see what Patriarch Liu says next:

 

金丹大藥，古人以萬劫一傳。玉筍靈篇，學者之十迷九八，聖師口口，歷代心心，若非心傳口授，縱使三傑之才，十哲之智，百端揣度，亦終不能下手，結就聖胎矣。所謂：饒君聰慧過顏閔，不遇明師莫強猜，只為金丹無口訣，教君何處結靈胎。劉海蟾詩日：此道迥昭彰，如何亂揣量。金丹之道，若不遇真師，實難知之矣。

 

Wise Teachers trasmitted from mouth to mouth (verbally), for centures, from heart to heart. If you have no heart transmission and verbal teaching - then even if you are talented as 3 heroes and smart as 10 sages and know everything - you as well would not be able to start the practice, create and complete spiritual fetus.

 

 

No, this is wrong

 

難

 

  You can't even understand the simpliest words of Patriarchs about necessity of a Teacher then get used to look at dictionaries at least:

 

难  不可

 

難 unable

 

难做 imossible to do

 

 

Best Regards,

A.A.Khokhlov

Edited December 10, 2016 by A.A.Khokhlov

[awaken]

I personally don't need any answers from you. But it was a chance for you to demonstrate your knowledge to others. Of course if you have anything to demonstrate.

Yes

 

You find it.

 

I have nothing to say, but just want people to know the cultivation in wu Wei and give up the wrong methods.

[Taoist Texts]

It was one more simpliest check for our unique super-puper not understanding pro-fanus.

 

8-9 of 10 would be completely confused (you are obviously among them, see below) and 1-2 probably would be able understand necessity and a way how to find a Teacher. Otherwise... - see what Patriarch Liu says next:

 

Thank you for very helpfully highlighting what  you make up and what is not in the text. hehe)

 

玉筍靈篇 what is this?

Edited December 10, 2016 by Taoist Texts

[awaken]

It was one more simpliest check for our unique super-puper not understanding pro-fanus.

 

8-9 of 10 would be completely confused (you are obviously among them, see below) and 1-2 probably would be able understand necessity and a way how to find a Teacher. Otherwise... - see what Patriarch Liu says next:

 

金丹大藥，古人以萬劫一傳。玉筍靈篇，學者之十迷九八，聖師口口，歷代心心，若非心傳口授，縱使三傑之才，十哲之智，百端揣度，亦終不能下手，結就聖胎矣。所謂：饒君聰慧過顏閔，不遇明師莫強猜，只為金丹無口訣，教君何處結靈胎。劉海蟾詩日：此道迥昭彰，如何亂揣量。金丹之道，若不遇真師，實難知之矣。

 

Wise Teachers trasmitted from mouth to mouth (verbally), for centures, from heart to heart. If you have no heart transmission and verbal teaching - then even if you are talented as 3 heroes and smart as 10 sages and know everything - you as well would not be able to start the practice, create and complete spiritual fetus.

 

 

 

You can't even understand the simpliest words of Patriarchs about necessity of a Teacher then get used to look at dictionaries at least:

 

难 不可

 

難 unable

 

难做 imossible to do

 

 

Best Regards,

A.A.Khokhlov

Excuse me. You seem to forget there is a Chinese here.

 

難做 does not mean impossible to do.

 

It means it is difficult to do.

 

It can be done, but just difficult.

 

Impossible to do 不可能

Edited December 10, 2016 by awaken

[Taoist Texts]

You guys play nice here, think what 玉筍靈篇 is while i go do a round of taicheee

[A.A.Khokhlov]

But Chinese people have a lot of chances to learn from the place you do not know.

 

In dan dao classics, we often find that many achiever do not learn from schools.

 

They just learn from someone meet on the street.

 

Meeting on a street person with real transmission - Real Teacher, not someone who "learnt" from books.

 

Best Regards,

A.A.Khokhlov

Edited December 10, 2016 by A.A.Khokhlov

[Taoist Texts]

Excuse me. You seem to forget there is a Chinese here.

 

難做 does not mean impossible to do.

 

It means it is difficult to do.

 

It can be done, but just difficult.  Impossible to do 不可能

hahaha;) these guys are the funniest)

[awaken]

What you are talking about is exactly what most Western people think, so you are simply no different.

But anyway, can you demonstrate your knowledge that you attained from the places we don't know to us? One genius in this thread has already answered that he knows nothing about bagua and neidan, it is your turn now.

I told you .

 

Manner, relation, dao

 

You can not ask questions like this , no manners.

[A.A.Khokhlov]

Thank you for very helpfully highlighting what  you make up and what is not in the text. hehe)

 

玉筍靈篇 what is this?

 

Ok. You are unable to focus on more than 1 thing at a time. See:

 

It was one more simpliest check for our unique super-puper not understanding pro-fanus "Taoist Texts". See what Patriarch Liu says next:

 

金丹大藥，古人以萬劫一傳。玉筍靈篇，學者之十迷九八，聖師口口，歷代心心，若非心傳口授，縱使三傑之才，十哲之智，百端揣度，亦終不能下手，結就聖胎矣。所謂：饒君聰慧過顏閔，不遇明師莫強猜，只為金丹無口訣，教君何處結靈胎。劉海蟾詩日：此道迥昭彰，如何亂揣量。金丹之道，若不遇真師，實難知之矣。

 

Wise Teachers trasmitted from mouth to mouth (verbally), for centures, from heart to heart. If you have no heart transmission and verbal teaching - then even if you are talented as 3 heroes and smart as 10 sages and know everything - you as well would not be able to start the practice, create and complete spiritual fetus.

 

 

What's next, "Taoist Texts"?

[A.A.Khokhlov]

Excuse me. You seem to forget there is a Chinese here.

 

難做 does not mean impossible to do.

 

It means it is difficult to do.

 

It can be done, but just difficult.

 

Impossible to do 不可能

Wrong. 

 

难  不可

 

Is what Chinese dictionary says