Yuxianpai & WuLiupai Tradition Doctrine

[grassmountiansage]

Yes, sadly that is the case with most schools, but the method doesn't really matter in this case.

Even in Xiao Yao Pai, there are some people that fall into your category:

 

1. Their wisdom could not expand because of the desire for power, so Hu Fa Shen does not advance them.

2. Some people just want to be called a Daoist officially, but its not something on paper, it's in the conduct, life, heart and spirit. We have these cases in our school also. They lack the drive to continue to work and transform closer to Hu Fa Shen.

3. Very common for us also. Some people just get lazy. Just because we have Hu Fa Shen doesn't mean we have an on and off switch. We must give 50% and HFS also then can give 50%, that's how it works with us also.

4. We have our political issues to deal with also, but we are a spiritual school first, so that's our priority above all things.

 

So at the end of the day. We still have no evidence of their claim and so we must consider it speculation until prove otherwise.

 

We when can get a proper account of people who are not dying in their system, but ascend to heaven instead, then we can know it for sure. Until then we are just playing with our imaginations. Emitting heat and light, the body does naturally. Someone that cultivates their Taiji energy (physical) can enhance this property, but its all still very far from physical transmutation of postnatal Qi to prenatal Qi or spiritual cultivation for that matter (which happens in Wuji). These manifestations are still only of the physical energy. When their physical body dies so will this function of it's Taiji energy. It cannot be carried over into Wuji.

 

Yes this has been much of my work was to make attaining the taoist body of light of primary concern and not martial power.

 

So in my lineage this teaching was not and is still not common knowledge it was only for the head of the sect only. While the students had lesser alchemy that could in theory lead to the body of light but was next to impossible attaining that in a normal life span. 

 

While the master had the more powerful vehicle for attainment.

 

The upper dantian has the fake light while the middle dantian has the real light. When the essence of the spirit and body have met in the middle dantian creating the vajra the body will emit light and heat but this point is a conversion process. 

 

If the body gets to many blockages the spontaneous natural light will stop until the blockage is removed.

[effilang]

Yes this has been much of my work was to make attaining the taoist body of light of primary concern and not martial power.

 

So in my lineage this teaching was not and is still not common knowledge it was only for the head of the sect only. While the students had lesser alchemy that could in theory lead to the body of light but was next to impossible attaining that in a normal life span. 

 

While the master had the more powerful vehicle for attainment.

 

The upper dantian has the fake light while the middle dantian has the real light. When the essence of the spirit and body have met in the middle dantian creating the vajra the body will emit light and heat but this point is a conversion process. 

 

If the body gets to many blockages the spontaneous natural light will stop until the blockage is removed.

 

How cool would it be if one day some 60 years from now, when we are all old and gray, we can come together and have a nice dinner with tea and each share and demonstrate what we have all attained on our journeys?

 

Can you imagine that spirit of brotherhood and camaraderie?

No ego. No arrogance. Just dumplings, soup, cake and hopefully a lot of "magic?"

 

Loving brothers and sisters of the same origin meeting to share in the wonder of life?

Can we do it?

 

I think I like this spirit much better than fighting with each other : )

After all, we are all just walking each other back home, hand in hand.

 

Here is a picture of our Grandmaster initiating 3 Quan Zhen 全真 "Complete Perfection" Tao Shi (Taoist Priest) from Tian Hou Gong (Tian Hou Temple). 

 

We have been to many other temples and schools in China to do the same for their priests.

 

Different Schools, but they are together in one room, all Xiudao together.

Can we do it like them, or are we too special in The Dao Bums and our schools too good for one another?

 

I think we will be surprised by the result if we try it : )

 

Edited December 10, 2016 by effilang

[grassmountiansage]

How cool would it be if one day some 60 years from now, when we are all old and gray, we can come together and have a nice dinner with tea and each share and demonstrate what we have all attained on our journeys?

 

Can you imagine that spirit of brotherhood and camaraderie?

No ego. No arrogance. Just dumplings, soup, cake and hopefully a lot of "magic?"

 

Loving brothers and sisters of the same origin meeting to share in the wonder of life?

Can we do it?

 

I think I like this spirit much better than fighting with each other : )

After all, we are all just walking each other back home, hand in hand.

 

Here is a picture of our Grandmaster initiating 3 Quan Zhen 全真 "Complete Perfection" Tao Shi (Taoist Priest) from Tian Hou Gong (Tian Hou Temple). 

 

We have been to many other temples and schools in China to do the same for their priests.

 

Different Schools, but they are together in one room, all Xiudao together.

Can we do it like them, or are we too special in The Dao Bums and our schools too good for one another?

 

I think we will be surprised by the result if we try it : )

 

initiation.jpg

 Yes that sounds fun. Id like that.

[Kar3n]

How cool would it be if one day some 60 years from now, when we are all old and gray, we can come together and have a nice dinner with tea and each share and demonstrate what we have all attained on our journeys?

 

Can you imagine that spirit of brotherhood and camaraderie?

No ego. No arrogance. Just dumplings, soup, cake and hopefully a lot of "magic?"

 

Loving brothers and sisters of the same origin meeting to share in the wonder of life?

Can we do it?

 

I think I like this spirit much better than fighting with each other : )

After all, we are all just walking each other back home, hand in hand.

 

Here is a picture of our Grandmaster initiating 3 Quan Zhen 全真 "Complete Perfection" Tao Shi (Taoist Priest) from Tian Hou Gong (Tian Hou Temple). 

 

We have been to many other temples and schools in China to do the same for their priests.

 

Different Schools, but they are together in one room, all Xiudao together.

Can we do it like them, or are we too special in The Dao Bums and our schools too good for one another?

 

I think we will be surprised by the result if we try it : )

 

initiation.jpg

 

Yes, much more of this...

[A.A.Khokhlov]

How cool would it be if one day some 60 years from now, when we are all old and gray, we can come together and have a nice dinner with tea and each share and demonstrate what we have all attained on our journeys?

 

Can you imagine that spirit of brotherhood and camaraderie?

No ego. No arrogance. Just dumplings, soup, cake and hopefully a lot of "magic?"

 

Loving brothers and sisters of the same origin meeting to share in the wonder of life?

Can we do it?

 

I think I like this spirit much better than fighting with each other : )

After all, we are all just walking each other back home, hand in hand.

 

Here is a picture of our Grandmaster initiating 3 Quan Zhen 全真 "Complete Perfection" Tao Shi (Taoist Priest) from Tian Hou Gong (Tian Hou Temple). 

 

We have been to many other temples and schools in China to do the same for their priests.

 

Different Schools, but they are together in one room, all Xiudao together.

Can we do it like them, or are we too special in The Dao Bums and our schools too good for one another?

 

I think we will be surprised by the result if we try it : )

 

initiation.jpg

 

Agree. Let me put here one addition from WuLiupai and Yuxianpai Schools...

 

- ...60 years from now when we are all young (well, middle-aged is sill ok) and black-haired, we come together to approve a plan of spreading Real Dao in the West for the next 60 years...

 

I heartily wish this good result to every sincere daoshi here. See you!

 

Best Regards,

A.A.Khokhlov

[SeekerOfHealing]

I can relate a bit from personal experience but I'm kind of skeptical to that experience. Firstly I was doing some nei gongs one time, after some time when my hand become transparent and sometimes it's emanates lights. The thing is - it happen just by itself, the second is I do not know if they are just not mind hallucinations related to the Qi stagnation in the head or whatever, it was very similar to the photograph of Kan which grassmountaingsage posted. actually the same but only hand. I did do anything or moved to see hand thru wall or anything as I was so mesmerized as it would hard to believe that something like this can happen.

[effilang]

Yinqiao channel is not a "middle mai". The last sentence ("Physicians...") means this Yinqiao is not from common "extraordinary channels" list.

 

AAK,

 

Are you talking about the Intersecting Yin Heel Vessel when you say Yinqiao, or is it something else?

If it is, I think it's common in acupuncture, albeit not used for the same purpose at all.

 

I vaguely recall a memory of a text to something of this degree:

The true immortal man breathes through the heels, referring to the Yang and Yin Heel Mai.

 

 

We don't use these in our tradition, but I know that it is part of Houtian xiulian and a necessity in the work of the great medicine after the internal and external agents have been combined.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, please.

Edited December 10, 2016 by effilang

[effilang]

Agree. Let me put here one addition from WuLiupai and Yuxianpai Schools...

 

- ...60 years from now when we are all young (well, middle-aged is sill ok) and black-haired, we come together to approve a plan of spreading Real Dao in the West for the next 60 years...

 

I heartily wish this good result to every sincere daoshi here. See you!

 

Best Regards,

A.A.Khokhlov

 

I will see you then and bring my hairdresser to make sure you're not using any hair dye

[A.A.Khokhlov]

Thank you Mr Khokhlov,

 

I think there is too much talking and not enough walking in the thread.

You guys have spent posts upon posts discussing other peoples training diaries.

 

That is all that a book is, just someones thoughts and experiences written on a piece of paper.

We can never know it for real, and that many people follow the book does not make it evidence of truth, just like the bible : )

 

If the methods are so clearly explained and the information in the books is true, then anyone with mediocre ability should be able to attain that level. We should be able to see and know people that are not getting buried and cremated but disappear into the Dao, at least in the past century but we have no verifiable proof.

...

 

If it cannot be reproduced in others regardless of their constitution, then it is relative. If it is relative then it is not the highest Dao.

 

Thank you effilang. I actually was unaware of that feedback you probably already seen http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/42478-learning-from-immortals/page-5#entry722108 . We have a numerous results like this. Some people like to share their experience, some not. But I am going to open a thread with some of our students' testimonials so everyone can see if our method works.

 

But all my words above are about qigong and basics of Neidan, self-healing and positive changes in your life. Why? Please see Ge Hong's words I've posted yesterday:

 

 

 

If it happens that a person is not suitable for transmitting him these misteries even if he gives (to alchemy teacher) huge lands and entire lines of cities, fill up halls with gold and jade, he wouldn't get a thing (teaching) anyway. (no one would teach him recklessly).

 

Highest neidan achievements are out of publicity because there is absolutely no need for it. Moreover it is much more clever to hide them. Not without a reason Laozi said that a Sage should wear a simple clothes but hide a precious jade behind it.

 

I believe the only thing needed for true seekers of Dao is knowledge that the Way exists and the direction where to seek for it. If there is fate - everything else would happen by itself with no doubts, proves and so on. If there is no fate - no publicity, proves, nothing can help in attaining the Dao.

 

Best Regards,

A.A.Khokhlov

[SeekerOfHealing]

Yes but most of those testimonials are very often in buddhism and other tradition of self cultivation, so if you can post some real good ones it would be nice.

[A.A.Khokhlov]

I can relate a bit from personal experience but I'm kind of skeptical to that experience. Firstly I was doing some nei gongs one time, after some time when my hand become transparent and sometimes it's emanates lights. The thing is - it happen just by itself, the second is I do not know if they are just not mind hallucinations related to the Qi stagnation in the head or whatever, it was very similar to the photograph of Kan which grassmountaingsage posted. actually the same but only hand. I did do anything or moved to see hand thru wall or anything as I was so mesmerized as it would hard to believe that something like this can happen.

 

Correct point. It is always quite easy to check your eyes with other feelings. For example trying to move your hand through the brick wall.

Sometimes incorrect practices of false schools may lead a one to completely loose sense of reality - in this case he/she should use another person to check his/her state.

 

BTW not doing do such a checks is similar to watching TV or photos or playing computer games - and believing everything inside is a true.

 

Best Regards,

A.A.Khokhlov

[A.A.Khokhlov]

AAK,

 

Are you talking about the Intersecting Yin Heel Vessel when you say Yinqiao, or is it something else?

If it is, I think it's common in acupuncture, albeit not used for the same purpose at all.

 

I vaguely recall a memory of a text to something of this degree:

The true immortal man breathes through the heels, referring to the Yang and Yin Heel Mai.

 

yinheel.gif

 

We don't use these in our tradition, but I know that it is part of Houtian xiulian and a necessity in the work of the great medicine after the internal and external agents have been combined.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, please.

 

It is not the same channel as TCM channel on your picture. That is why Patriarch Zhang said: Physicians (medics) do not know of its existence...

 

Location of these channels only becomes understandable after person opens them with alchemic practice (though there are some notes about it in that text by Zhang Boduan).

 

Best Regards,

A.A.Khokhlov

[A.A.Khokhlov]

I will see you then and bring my hairdresser to make sure you're not using any hair dye

 

Sure, it is not about a making a picture or proving anything to anyone.

 

And his eyes were all black, when he opened up.

 

Well, this part seems quite weird

 

Best Regards,

A.A.Khokhlov

Edited December 11, 2016 by A.A.Khokhlov

[SeekerOfHealing]

Yinqiao is in the heart I think - the alchemical one.

[A.A.Khokhlov]

Yinqiao is in the heart I think - the alchemical one.

 

You can try to check yourself with Zhang Boduan's text

 

If fellow members are ready I will soon post an article about different methods and ways of practice in Taoism. Working on it.

 

Best Regards,

A.A.Khokhlov

[SeekerOfHealing]

Yeah, that would be nice, but why if Yu Xian Pai school is open those practices are not just learned by text as methods you can follow up?

[Taomeow]

 WuLiupai School is currently not accepting Western students so there is no much sense in discussing it.

 

 

1. What is being discussed then?

2. Where's the border that separates Western students that are not accepted from non-Western ones that are accepted?  Is it geographical, linguistic, ethnic, geopolitical?  Who qualifies as a non-Westerner, and how does one acquire the qualifications?  

[A.A.Khokhlov]

Yeah, that would be nice, but why if Yu Xian Pai school is open those practices are not just learned by text as methods you can follow up?

 

Books are about increasing the mind.

Inner Alchemy is about pre-heaven energy, body and lessening the mind.

 

All 3 Inner Alchemy aspects are either impossible to learn from books or even pointing us to wrong direction.

 

Lets take for example body aspect. Body in Alchemy is being balanced in all the senses. Trying to achieve this balance by reading instructions in books (btw you can barely find such instructions in texts at all) is same as trying to become a professional soccer player by reading training course book.

 

Of course you would get some theory knowledge but it in no way make your body actually balanced - being able to not miss a kick and so forth.

 

1. What is being discussed then?

2. Where's the border that separates Western students that are not accepted from non-Western ones that are accepted?  Is it geographical, linguistic, ethnic, geopolitical?  Who qualifies as a non-Westerner, and how does one acquire the qualifications?  

 

Please don't think I am just teasing you here. Great part of Taoist knowledge is not a school-specific and all fellow members will be able to use it practicing by another school. In case of learning from us it would be Ma Danyang's Tradition (Yuxianpai School).

 

It is not a formal criteria of nationality. It is mostly about culture, upbringing, local traditions and so on. Some of which could help in practicing WuLiupai methods but some would slow you down and even may raise deviations on certain levels of practice.

 

Best Regards,

A.A.Khokhlov

[Taomeow]

Thank you.

 

Next question if you don't mind:

 

we had instances of Wuliupai students attacking other schools and systems on this forum, which for all practical purposes looked like orchestrated ganging up.  I.e. a few of them would appear simultaneously and start attacking a particular school, its masters, its students, its teachings, etc., simultaneously.  They typically did not do anything else on this vast and variegated forum, neither initiating nor contributing to any discussions -- only this, an attack on someone or something "other."  Is it part of the doctrine of your school to wage such "crusades" (for lack of a better word), or is it done solely on the initiative of certain students or teachers, or is promoting such initiatives part of the doctrine, or is it a mere innocent coincidence?

 

Would appreciate an elucidation.   

Edited December 11, 2016 by Taomeow

[Antares]

 

 

I.e. a few of them would appear simultaneously and start attacking a particular school, its masters, its students, its teachings, etc., simultaneously

 

Probably you mean "attacks" on Wang Liping school and Vitali Lischina "school"? Havn't I missed anything? 

 

 

 

They typically did not do anything else on this vast and variegated forum, neither initiating nor contributing to any discussions -- only this, an attack on someone or something "other." 

 

Have you ever tried to realize that it was not sort of attacking "others" but in fact it was real contribution to many discussions on Daoist practical aspects. The problem that many people could not realize these ideas that were expressed here on the forum by opendao (in the most cases). The main idea was based on the knowledge that far not all practical systems have relation to the Daoist Tradition and that one needs an authentic Teacher within authentic school if one wants to succeed on the spiritual path. Explanation was given on the distinctions between yangshen and yinshen systems. If you mean attacks on Vitalii then it was attempt  to help people in a friendly manner not to fall into hands of the fraudster.  

Edited December 12, 2016 by Antares

[Taomeow]

Antares, I was hoping the OP would answer my question,

unless you are his official representative, in which case, thank you for your response. 

[munky]

.

Edited August 23, 2023 by munky

[Taoist Texts]

  Is it part of the doctrine of your school to wage such "crusades" (for lack of a better word), 

 

a jihad is better.

[A.A.Khokhlov]

Thank you.

 

Next question if you don't mind:

 

we had instances of Wuliupai students attacking other schools and systems on this forum, which for all practical purposes looked like orchestrated ganging up.  I.e. a few of them would appear simultaneously and start attacking a particular school, its masters, its students, its teachings, etc., simultaneously.  They typically did not do anything else on this vast and variegated forum, neither initiating nor contributing to any discussions -- only this, an attack on someone or something "other."  Is it part of the doctrine of your school to wage such "crusades" (for lack of a better word), or is it done solely on the initiative of certain students or teachers, or is promoting such initiatives part of the doctrine, or is it a mere innocent coincidence?

 

Would appreciate an elucidation.   

 

1. As far as I know by now we have only had 2 registered WuLiupai students here - with names opendao and alchemist.

 

There of course may also be some common people who have been learning from us as an external (out-of-school) students but we in no way are controlling their opinions. I believe it is their right to register on the forum and express their thoughts.

 

Moreover if a person sees someone saying lies I believe we should respect his/her natural desire to restore the justice. Especially if it is not just abstract lies but attack on his Teachers or his School - which has always been treated as a big family in China.

 

2. I can't agree there was no contribution in other topics. As far as I know our students have always been trying to explain WuLiupai and Yuxianpai position to cultivation process, teaching from books and so on. Of course someone can disagree with it but at least he would know the different point of view.

 

3. Even if we are talking about debunking profanes... If it would save at least one seeker from following the false path and loosing life for it - I believe it wasn't in vain.

I believe it is actually the reason why Patriarchs of the past were criticising profanes of their time in the texts.

 

4. Anyway we are now even more willing to contribute much to the forum's discussions. Everyone is welcome to participate. Meaningful discussions would be more than useful for all the fellow DaoBums members 

 

 

Best Regards,

A.A.Khokhlov

[Antares]

Antares, I was hoping the OP would answer my question,

unless you are his official representative, in which case, thank you for your response. 

 

Who is OP? Opendao is banned and that' why I chimed in since I see you say nonsense.  So, you say that "they" did not contribute to the forum. Let's have a look then. Opendao and Alchemist started a few very important threads providing many quotes from Daoist treatises and they also gave many explanations on the subject. For example:

 

WuLiuPai school:

http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/35670-wuliupai-school/

 

Minor schools and inconsistent methods (from Zhong Lü Chuan Dao Ji)

http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/35815-minor-schools-and-inconsistent-methods-from-zhong-lü-chuan-dao-ji/#entry569403

Open Talk: Daoist Practice. Alchemy and Neigong Q & A [Online]

http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/40192-open-talk-daoist-practice-alchemy-and-neigong-q-a-online/

 

Also many other explanations where given in other threads. For example here:

http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/35922-how-does-all-of-this-neidanneigongqigongenergy-stuff-relate-to-non-dual-truth-and-enlightenment/#entry572599

 

 

Another thing worth to mention is that in many teachings nowadays the ancient principle of middle path is lost. In Neidan it's call "dual cultivation of Xing and Ming". Many people know very good the work with Xing (spirit-Shen), it's about different exercises to stop thoughts and achieve "no mind". If we continue, that's where we can experience out-of-the body "astral travelling". That's what is Ghost Immortal. To prevent that, all ancient systems had practices to work with the innate energy of the body, Ming or Yuan Qi. If this energy is restored and refined, then it can be used to add light to the spirit and for the final transformation of the body.

 

The main difference between such "positive" spirit (Yang shen) and Ghost spirit ("Yin Shen") is that only Yang shen can ascend to Heaven, while Yin Shen can only go down to lower worlds and live there for very long time without any possibility to return to a human body again...

 

And finally "Online Training in Internal Alchemy"

http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/37947-online-training-in-internal-alchemy/

 

So any interested and willing person could participate in practical classes online or even in person. 

But you say that these people were only attacking others without any contribution to the forum. May be you just did not read it carefully or did not read it at all? 

Edited December 12, 2016 by Antares