Kundalini, Now What?

[Jeff]

Kundalini (Sanskrit: "a coiled female serpent") from kundala, "coil of a rope" meaning either coiled up or coiling like a snake — is the divine cosmic energy. It is a term in yoga, referring to a reservoir of psychic energy at the base of the spine. Kundalini is curled up in the back part of the root chakra in three and one-half turns. This force or energy is symbolized as a coiled and sleeping serpent lying dormant in the lowest nerve centre at the base of the spinal column, the Muladhara-chakra. This latent energy has to be aroused and made to ascend the main spinal channel, the Susumna piercing the chakras right up to the Sahasrara, the thousand-petalled lotus in the head. Then the Yogi is in union with the Brahman (Supreme Universal Soul).

 

http://veda.wikidot.com/kundalini

Bindi,

 

If that is your definition of Kundalini, then I would agree with you. It is a self limiting trap.

 

Best,

Jeff

[cheya]

Well, Pilgrim,

As I wrote you in pm, I am so sorry you deleted those posts. They were some of the most interesting and fruitful I've read in a long time, with a depth that I'd have to read multiple times to really digest. I hadn't done that yet when they disappeared. Dang.   

 

I'm glad you joined, and very sorry you seem to have gotten a rough reception from a few. But I hope you will stick around and stay with this topic, sharing your experience as you see fit. 

 

 

[Jeff]

Well, Pilgrim,

As I wrote you in pm, I am so sorry you deleted those posts. They were some of the most interesting and fruitful I've read in a long time, with a depth that I'd have to read multiple times to really digest. I hadn't done that yet when they disappeared. Dang.   

 

I'm glad you joined, and very sorry you seem to have gotten a rough reception from a few. But I hope you will stick around and stay with this topic, sharing your experience as you see fit. 

I would agree that it was some good and interesting stuff. I think the challenge is that things get bogged down with this forum audience on the concept of Kundalini itself. The balancing of male and female energy sides is universal to all traditions and to me the most valuable part of the deleted posts.

[Apech]

... and DaoBums is not exclusively Daoist.

[Brian]

I would encourage you to request a PPF, to ask that this thread be moved there, and then to hide this post.

 

My recommendation to request a PPF for your writing remains, Pilgrim.

 

[Jonesboy]

What is khechari?

When this pure knowledge (suddha vidya), which has been explained

in previous sutras, effortlessly comes into existence and

when, by the supreme independent will of Lord Siva, these limited

powers subside and that real state of Lord Siva comes into

being, then this yogi flies in the ether of supreme knowledge.

This is the state of khecari mudra that comes into existence for

him. The state of khecari is the state of Lord Siva, who is the

supreme embodiment of consciousness. Here the aspirant

(sadhaka) becomes one with Siva. This is the rise of one's own

blissful state. This khecari is not the khecari described in these

two verses:

 

When the yogi is seated in padmasana, he must put his mind,

the master of all organs, in the center of the navel. He must sit

erect until the time when the three ethers/voids, sakti, vyapini

and samana, come into existence for him.

Then immediately this yogi should infuse the supreme void

by taking hold of these three voids. By practicing in this way,

this yogi enters in the mudra of khecari.

 

'Siva Sutra 2.5

 

This state, described above, is not real khecari mudra. It should

be avoided. What is real khecari mudra?

When you are treading the way of totality (kulamargena), you

must see the totality in a piece of the totality. Take one part of

the universe and see the whole universe existing there. That is

the way of totality. So, just as its said in the Tantrasadbhava,

this khecari mudra is becoming one with supreme consciousness.

 

.....So, the reality of this khecari mudra is just as it is explained

in the Tantrasadbhava, "becoming one with supreme consciousness."

And when the agitation of that differentiated illusion of

Lord Siva fades into nothingness, then the power of all mantras

and all mudras (states) appears and is experienced by such a yogi.

 

This is said in Kulacudamani Sastra:

 

When, by one germ of creative being and one germ of existence,

this khecari mudra is created (mantra virya) and then established

(mudra virya), and when these two states appear to this

yogi, then he is established in that supreme and peaceful state

of Lord Siva.

 

Siva Sutras pg 89-90

Edited December 12, 2016 by Jonesboy

[Apech]

When this pure knowledge (suddha vidya), which has been explained

in previous sutras, effortlessly comes into existence and

when, by the supreme independent will of Lord Siva, these limited

powers subside and that real state of Lord Siva comes into

being, then this yogi flies in the ether of supreme knowledge.

This is the state of khecari mudra that comes into existence for

him. The state of khecari is the state of Lord Siva, who is the

supreme embodiment of consciousness. Here the aspirant

(sadhaka) becomes one with Siva. This is the rise of one's own

blissful state. This khecari is not the khecari described in these

two verses:

 

When the yogi is seated in padmasana, he must put his mind,

the master of all organs, in the center of the navel. He must sit

erect until the time when the three ethers/voids, sakti, vyapini

and samana, come into existence for him.

Then immediately this yogi should infuse the supreme void

by taking hold of these three voids. By practicing in this way,

this yogi enters in the mudra of khecari.

 

'Siva Sutra 2.5

 

This state, described above, is not real khecari mudra. It should

be avoided. What is real khecari mudra?

When you are treading the way of totality (kulamargena), you

must see the totality in a piece of the totality. Take one part of

the universe and see the whole universe existing there. That is

the way of totality. So, just as its said in the Tantrasadbhava,

this khecari mudra is becoming one with supreme consciousness.

 

.....So, the reality of this khecari mudra is just as it is explained

in the Tantrasadbhava, "becoming one with supreme consciousness."

And when the agitation of that differentiated illusion of

Lord Siva fades into nothingness, then the power of all mantras

and all mudras (states) appears and is experienced by such a yogi.

 

This is said in Kulacudamani Sastra:

 

When, by one germ of creative being and one germ of existence,

this khecari mudra is created (mantra virya) and then established

(mudra virya), and when these two states appear to this

yogi, then he is established in that supreme and peaceful state

of Lord Siva.

 

Siva Sutras pg 89-90

 

 

Thanks - but what does it mean?

[Bindi]

Well, Pilgrim,

As I wrote you in pm, I am so sorry you deleted those posts. They were some of the most interesting and fruitful I've read in a long time, with a depth that I'd have to read multiple times to really digest. I hadn't done that yet when they disappeared. Dang.   

 

I'm glad you joined, and very sorry you seem to have gotten a rough reception from a few. But I hope you will stick around and stay with this topic, sharing your experience as you see fit. 

 

I don't think he was saying he had a rough reception, I think he read a few kundalini topics and decided from that to delete his.

[Jonesboy]

Thanks - but what does it mean?

Still learning this stuff but to the best of my understanding.

 

"The state of khecari is the state of Lord Siva, who is the

supreme embodiment of consciousness."

 

Khecari is not about sitting and doing some pranayama or meditation technique.

 

Real Khecari Mudra is "becoming one with supreme consciousness."

 

If you see it a different way please let me know.

[Pilgrim]

What is khechari?

On the surface it is a disgusting impossible practice. Many read about it in old yogic texts and go to the extremes to achieve it including cutting their tongues. I have know people who can form Kechari naturally yet without the energetic prompting to do so they only report disappointment.

 

On the Physical Level Kechari is when a person takes the tip of their tongue and places it against the soft pallet, then slides back touching the Uvula, then touches the back of the throat, then goes up behind the soft pallet. Impossible though this may seem you can still breath. The tongue is guided and touches the soft spots inside the head and different neurological connections are made and strengthened over time.

 

On the energetic level Kechari happens well before the physical and is in process of developing the connection before the person is even aware of it.

 

One way to tell it is happening will be felt in the body as ones awareness tends to want to go upwards often this is felt as a gently pressure at the point where the nose becomes the skull and the top of the head where as a baby you had a soft spot. Often there will be a pleasant vibration felt and if you listen to it you will hear OM, with eyes closed a nice yellow glow if you wish.

 

There will also be energetic movement in the spine a great bliss better than any sex can be felt in the pelvic floor rising up and taking awareness with it, (Where bliss goes awareness follows) in time the tongue will eagerly attempt to go up and there are exercises to make this more comfortable when it does.

 

On an energetic level it is when one has sufficient current energy kundalini whatever a person likes to name it best, in motion and it demands that a energetic circuit is formed there are different theories concerning the bifurcated nature of Sushumna but I think it best to say bliss knows best where to complete the circuit and just when you think you have it down a new layer of bliss is granted.

 

When the connection happens in this manner it is very strong Bliss defies words and forever alters ones awareness. During and afterwards it is a process that continues year after year to grow and develop.

 

In time one comes to comprehend this is the joining of Siva Lingham and the Yoni the truest form a Yab Yum. On an energetic level you become Gender complete over time and comprehend the the symbology of Tantric Statues.

 

The bliss however is not the goal, the bliss is like a friction between levels of awareness like a lens of sorts that is passed through into the beyond.

 

A person can through certain practices prepare themselves for this to happen that is all anyone can do in an actual intentional way. Once Kechari comes on its own it will keep company with and intensify all practices but it is at the end of practice where on simply sits and abides that the rest happens.

 

Think of it this way In Kriya Yoga we do not purposely cultivate as is found in different places, rather we prepare the way, and by doing the practices become familiar with our subtle body.

 

Here is an example let us say one is performing Kirya Pranayam the awareness is brought up during inhalation a time will come in ones development where the breath will cease and the bliss will sustain you. The time will come when you are guided from within to the true practice and then you will be able to guide the life force back down without the crutch of breath and then back up again keeping all the precepts and this is true pranayam.

 

The body needs air so there is no shame in breathing pranayam but there comes a time when it does not and then you practice in this fashion until it is time not to.

 

by these practices when the time is correct Kundalini may rise with he least amount of obstruction possible.

 

The key phrase here is least amount of obstruction possible.

 

Some have a narrow idealistic belief from reading too much that the way must be perfect pristine and clean and I am telling that, that is not so, life does not work that way at all.

 

On the way to reaching the ideal of perfectly cleansed and prepared nadis Kundalini tends to become impatient and rise anyway and this is reality. Before this happens the various forms of prana are well in motion also and it is prana that is moved first in specific ways.

 

This is why Kriya until recent times has been kept secret, there is a danger of psychological instability happening and not having a support system of someone who has gone before you AKA Guru is not fun. Sadly most teaching today fail to keep in personal availability to their students.

 

In the ancient days though it was not uncommon for a teacher or guru to teach then leave so the student could discover and only talking to them again much later.

 

The only reason I can conceive of that a person would take up any of this is that the choice has simply been removed and they are at a stage in their life's course where they must do this thing, that is for them to do, that it is the time to accelerate the natural course of living.

 

In my personal case I was lazy and just lived my life as a decent human being to the best of my ability. Without going into personal detail I will just say it is impossible to ignore when the time is right.

[Jeff]

What is khechari?

 

 

Khechari, in the context of the quote (per Abhinavagupta), means that which, "while stationed in absolute unity, moves about". It relates the infinite and primordial vibration.  To me the following words describe it and also the basis of Kashmir Shivaism itself.

 

As Abhinavagupta explains...

 

The nature of such a consciousness is its capacity for self-referral, and because of that, there always arises a spontaneous sound (dhvani) which is termed the supreme, the great Heart.  That self-consciousness in the Heart in which the entire universe without remainder is dissolved, present at the beginning and at the end of perception of objects, is called in the authoritative texts the vibration (spanda), and more precisely, the universal vibration, and its nature is an overflowing in the Self.  For that vibration, which is a slight motion of a special kind, a unique vibrating light, is the wave of the ocean of consciousness, without which there is no consciousness at all.  For the character of the ocean is that it sometimes filled with waves and sometimes waveless.  This conciseness is the essence of all.

[Pilgrim]

I don't think he was saying he had a rough reception, I think he read a few kundalini topics and decided from that to delete his.

Yes this is it.

 

I find when someone asks thought that they deserve an answer to the best of my ability.

[Pilgrim]

I would agree that it was some good and interesting stuff. I think the challenge is that things get bogged down with this forum audience on the concept of Kundalini itself. The balancing of male and female energy sides is universal to all traditions and to me the most valuable part of the deleted posts.

 

I agree that becoming gender complete is the most important. There is allot of stuff before that happens and allot afterwards as well but the progression is viewable and there are significant changes in ones desires, as in an absence for many things once desired.

 

In my development Kechari has played a huge role so I think it is good to tell others what it is like if asked and also that the writings of the ages are correct they say it so well there is no need for me to embellish.

 

I do think however that they are misunderstood as what they describe is not the end by a long shot but rather an interface to a different way of being that takes time to grow into.

[Pilgrim]

Still learning this stuff but to the best of my understanding.

 

"The state of khecari is the state of Lord Siva, who is the

supreme embodiment of consciousness."

 

Khecari is not about sitting and doing some pranayama or meditation technique.

 

Real Khecari Mudra is "becoming one with supreme consciousness."

 

If you see it a different way please let me know.

Exactly.

 

The ways and means of practices once the path has been cleared enough then become the means to bring one from the extroverted state of daily waking walking world to the introverted state.

 

Over time there is less of a distinct separation of states.

 

Once there You do not do Kechari.

 

Kechari does you.

 

The thing about it is thought even though it is the state of Lord Siva it takes time for one to develop in that state and it does change with repeated exposure.

[cheya]

I don't think he was saying he had a rough reception, I think he read a few kundalini topics and decided from that to delete his.

 

 

Yeah but the immediate discussion of kundalini as a fake stage in Dao cultivation probably didn't help any....

[Bindi]

Yeah but the immediate discussion of kundalini as a fake stage in Dao cultivation probably didn't help any....

 

He had deleted his posts by 4.50 am yesterday, after seeker of healing's single comment. Any further discussion regarding fake stages was well after this, so either he is extremelyy sensitive, or he had other reasons to delete his posts.

[cheya]

Yes, perhaps SoH's "fake stage" post prompted Pilgrim to go find other kundalini bashing on the site...

And then delete his posts.

 

I'm just sad when I see people's reports of their genuine raw experience with energy being kind of sacrificed or denigrated... shut down... by other member's attachment to theory and dogma.

 

JMO, and I will now drop it.   

Edited December 12, 2016 by cheya

[Pilgrim]

He had deleted his posts by 4.50 am yesterday, after seeker of healing's single comment. Any further discussion regarding fake stages was well after this, so either he is extremelyy sensitive, or he had other reasons to delete his posts.

It did nothing to help but by itself it was not enough to remove the posts.

 

I was actually hoping to learn why it was viewed in such a way. If the assertion is correct then it should be able to be explained.

 

It was posts in different sections of the Dao Bums regarding Kundalini that gave the impression of this type of conversation was unwelcome.

 

After today the impression has changed.

Edited December 12, 2016 by Pilgrim

[Jeff]

Yes, perhaps SoH's "fake stage" post prompted Pilgrim to go find other kundalini bashing on the site...

And then delete his posts.

 

I'm just sad when I see people's reports of their genuine raw experience with energy being kind of sacrificed or denigrated... shut down... by other member's attachment to theory and dogma.

 

JMO, and I will now drop it.   

 

 

I agree.  Especially when it is a new member.  I think the bums would be a better place if more people shared their personal experiences.  

[Jeff]

It did nothing to help but by itself it was not enough to remove the posts.

 

I was actually hoping to learn why it was viewed in such a way. If the assertion is correct then it should be able to be explained.

 

It was posts in different sections of the Dao Bums regarding Kundalini that gave the impression of this type of conversation was unwelcome.

 

After today the impression has changed.

 

 

Glad to hear that the impression has changed.  Really just a lot of strong opinions here at the bums.

 

Also, Brian warning you about getting a PPF was probably his knowing where the thread would head.

 

As you stated in your earlier post, Kundalini itself is a very loaded word based on various new age concepts and sites describing the emotional horrors of it.  Also, I would say that there is a large body of members here that are afraid of experiencing energy stuff in general.

[Brian]

Glad to hear that the impression has changed. Really just a lot of strong opinions here at the bums.

 

Also, Brian warning you about getting a PPF was probably his knowing where the thread would head.

 

As you stated in your earlier post, Kundalini itself is a very loaded word based on various new age concepts and sites describing the emotional horrors of it. Also, I would say that there is a large body of members here that are afraid of experiencing energy stuff in general.

^^^I often wish I were mistaken.

[Pilgrim]

  I guess it will just have to run it's course.

[Bindi]

Yes, perhaps SoH's "fake stage" post prompted Pilgrim to go find other kundalini bashing on the site...

And then delete his posts.

 

I'm just sad when I see people's reports of their genuine raw experience with energy being kind of sacrificed or denigrated... shut down... by other member's attachment to theory and dogma.

 

JMO, and I will now drop it.   

 

 

And yet Pilgrim himself posted a negative opinion, when he spoke of someone's guru as “nothing but a fraud on a massive scale” and “decided he was a waste of time.”

 

http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/23453-yogiraj-satgurunath-siddhanath/page-3#entry723665

If opinions are to be discouraged, I think it should be across the board and for all members, not just in the topics that you prefer.

Edited December 13, 2016 by Bindi

[mindtooloud]

this one time i felt a tingling on my hand

[Apech]

this one time i felt a tingling on my hand

 

stop sitting on it!