Gender roles: traditional view of men and women interaction in life and practice

[Kara_mia]

Since we are all like-minded people and have interest in Taoism and Ancient Tradition in general, it is important to understand gender roles in society from traditional point of view. Lets discuss the roles and functions of male and female and how this concept is seen in Taoism. Any views, insights, experience you wish to share?

 

 

[effilang]

Since we are all like-minded people and have interest in Taoism and Ancient Tradition in general, it is important to understand gender roles in society from traditional point of view. Lets discuss the roles and functions of male and female and how this concept is seen in Taoism. Any views, insights, experience you wish to share?

 

So you want to know how Taoist women treated men and how Taoist men treated women several thousand years ago, so you can apply that to modern life? - How are traditional gender roles "important" to us in the present time of our lives?

 

I'm genuinely curious, lol.

Edited December 14, 2016 by effilang

[C T]

It is time we truly recognize that the era of the hunter is past. This should be a more “feminine” era – an era when women make greater contributions to society. If we continue to devalue what women have to offer, we will continue harming women and continue overlooking and devaluing these virtues that are considered “feminine.” And these are precisely the virtues that the world needs more now.                         ~ 17th Karmapa

Edited December 14, 2016 by C T

[effilang]

It is time we truly recognize that the era of the hunter is past. This should be a more “feminine” era – an era when women make greater contributions to society. If we continue to devalue what women have to offer, we will continue harming women and continue overlooking and devaluing these virtues that are considered “feminine.” And these are precisely the virtues that the world needs more now.                         ~ 17th Karmapa

 

Not just for women, but also for men to express themselves more femininely : )

[C T]

Not just for women, but also for men to express themselves more femininely : )

yes you are right.. women ought to remember to go inside, deep, and celebrate their primordial nature more often so as not to forget their softness, and men/partners can learn to support that journey, because what comes back will be a blessing for both

[Kara_mia]

Thank you all for your valuable insights and views.

 

Obviously, it is important to understand gender roles back in ancient time and how they changed eventually. However, I believe it would be much more useful to understand gender roles and family patterns through basic concepts of Taoism and vice versa.

 

The easiest example would here be to say that men are yang and women are yin. And if i may refer to I-Ching: "One Yin and one yang, this is the Dao". In this regard it is no wonder that pair cultivation is considered as the most superior method of cultivation and the shortest one to achieve Dao.

 

However, nowadays, male and female interaction is somewhat distorted. For example, many men do not even understand the basics behind women behavior that is quite easy to relate to the behavior patterns.

[wilfred]

Not just for women, but also for men to express themselves more femininely : )

 

while this is true and i personally fall into the camp as a male with strong feminine energies, it's possible to take it too far. modern culture seems to be producing an abundance of yang deficient men who are choosing to retreat to the of world ideas, living in their heads and on the internet. a man should still lead a lifestyle that involves ample physicality and optimises hormone levels (testosterone) for maximum energy throughput.

 

so the gentle, mindful introspective aspect to yin energy, absolutely, but it shouldn't manifest through ideological beliefs (i'm thinking feminists/SJWs) or being passive/inactive in the world. we should be embracing more feeling vs ideas when turning to our feminine side, because clinging to views is only ignorance. keeping a balance is key.

Edited December 16, 2016 by wilfred

[SeekerOfHealing]

 

 

Just food for thought, do not get confused.

[Kar3n]

I could say a lot about that video and most of it would be far beyond the scope of what is appropriate for this forum, however, I will say this...

 

That video is pure oppressive, misogynistic, dehumanizing, vile, retrogressive propaganda!! To place the down fall of western civilization on the backs of women when men have predominately been in power, worldwide, for centuries is just asinine! If there is no inherent sense of protecting the 'tribe' in women, answer this... who was/is taking care of the home front and keeping the economy alive while still nurturing their families when men have been called out to fight senseless wars?

 

The days of steamrolling women because they have opinions, careers and personal goals are over in most of modern civilization. It is time that certain men get used to it and get onboard. Working together is far more productive to society as a whole than creating division by labeling certain groups or women in general as demolitionists who should be subservient to the chest pounding males who think a woman's place is barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen.

 

To call this food for thought is the only thing that is confusing...

[ilumairen]

"..the equitable distribution of women..."

 

???

[ilumairen]

Ideally male/female energies balance each other, leading to harmonious interaction - on multiple levels. The cosmic dance..

[juan]

Gender roles are a cultural issue (culture: the sum total of ways of living built up by a group of human beings and handed down from one generation to another), and the differences are huge depending on the country, century, social status, education, etc. If you don’t take care of these differences you may easily end up with a series of blanket statements, which in its immense majority are just clichés.

 

If we speak about energy (chi) cultivation, cultural conditioning is important, yes, as cultural taboos are difficult to identify as such. But their blocking effect on cultivation are equally important for men and women.

Just my opinion.

 

Anecdote:  I heard that in the ancient China daughters were not allowed to learn the family skills on chi cultivation as these skills were considered a weapon, and daughters were property of their husband’s family when they married.

Edited December 16, 2016 by juan

[SeekerOfHealing]

Ideally male/female energies balance each other, leading to harmonious interaction - on multiple levels. The cosmic dance..

 

yep, for 5 minutes and then group or barbarians would rape them and kill all other men from that happy balanced cosmic dance tribe. 

 

That's why for example voting should be generally limited to only professionals and specialist who can govern country right way thru struggles and everything as most spiritual people can not look up on situation realistic way. 

 

Too much yin = death, too much women activity into yang = death. Today women still think that the men need to balance themselves towards women or women are still to weak and men need to give more and more, but this is nature of yin. We can use TCM to govern country as a body really - if someone smart would create such system would be close to perfect in sense of balance.

 

I know we want to speak on taoist views but taoist views does not mean 100% correct views, nor anyother religion and branch. 

 

Most accurate way is to make 5 elements and yin and yang balance but realistic yin and yang balance like they used in war strategies etc. 

 

Also there is earth and heaven relationship between heaven and country, that's why people under influence of spiritual tradition which connects people with Heaven actually earth will follow and balance itself. 

 

Gender roles are just pathology from disease, misunderstanding. In taoism there is no gender roles as it's come natural to everybody if we let it come. 

Edited December 16, 2016 by SeekerOfHealing

[ilumairen]

yep, for 5 minutes and then group or barbarians would rape them and kill all other men from that happy balanced cosmic dance tribe. 

I was speaking from personal experience regarding interpersonal interactions; not theorizing.

[SeekerOfHealing]

I was speaking from personal experience regarding interpersonal interactions; not theorizing.

 

but those got nothing to do with collective behavior in case of governing or gender roles. 

[vonkrankenhaus]

Modern gender roles are imaginary constructs developed to render people easier to manage.

 

Ancient gender roles are based on situations that no longer exist.

 

For example, woman was the center of life and economy before remote trading made the role of men increasingly more important.

 

Prior to that time, it was well understood that woman knows and masters life intrinsically and internally - whereas man must look outside himself into his activities to find this.

 

Modern industrial way is pretty much asking woman to give children off to schools, professionals, and state, and leave the home and work for corporations - while man is posing for selfies in his summer dress and lumberjack beard,

 

 

 

 

- VonKrankenhaus

[rainbowvein]

people under influence of spiritual tradition which connects people with Heaven actually earth will follow and balance itself.

 

Yes. If people looked to the stars to lead their lives, that would be balancing, uplifting!

 

The majority of qigong, spiritual systems, and spiritual intent focus on jing and chi. Which keeps the spirit on the ground.

 

We need the energy of the stars and heavens to fly!

[ilumairen]

but those got nothing to do with collective behavior in case of governing or gender roles.

 

I am referring to gender roles. I am, in this moment, not soo interested in collective behavior.

[ilumairen]

We need the energy of the stars and heavens to fly!

Beautiful!

[Apech]

Gender roles are a cultural issue (culture: the sum total of ways of living built up by a group of human beings and handed down from one generation to another), and the differences are huge depending on the country, century, social status, education, etc. If you don’t take care of these differences you may easily end up with a series of blanket statements, which in its immense majority are just clichés.

 

If we speak about energy (chi) cultivation, cultural conditioning is important, yes, as cultural taboos are difficult to identify as such. But their blocking effect on cultivation are equally important for men and women.

Just my opinion.

 

Anecdote:  I heard that in the ancient China daughters were not allowed to learn the family skills on chi cultivation as these skills were considered a weapon, and daughters were property of their husband’s family when they married.

 

 

Have you forgotten biology?

[Apech]

yep, for 5 minutes and then group or barbarians would rape them and kill all other men from that happy balanced cosmic dance tribe. 

 

That's why for example voting should be generally limited to only professionals and specialist who can govern country right way thru struggles and everything as most spiritual people can not look up on situation realistic way. 

 

...

 

 

We tried fascism - it doesn't work.

[Apech]

True in more ways than one.

 

And, on the issue of gender roles and interactions, societies built around energy had yin and yang governing all aspects of life. The men and women lived in ways such that their yin and yang cycles were harmonized with reality at large. When they convened, it was because the cycles of reality allowed them to.

 

Forcing a meeting because it can balance something local is like locking two 9-volts together. There might be some fireworks and an easy balance. But it has virtually no long term benefit because the energy has lost synchronization with the rest of reality.

 

 

Can you give an example of one such society?

[Apech]

The khoisan bushmen were pretty close. There was some fudging energy-wise because they had a trunk of ancestral energy to work with, though.

 

Thanks - I have to admit I don't know much about them - are they the same as the San (Saan)?

[SeekerOfHealing]

khoisan bushmen

 

Do you know that two people with rifle can wipe out there whole society?

 

 

 

We tried fascism - it doesn't work.

 

Pinochet was a fascist and it worked but I'm not talking about fascist which is a lot of stigma to this word and a lot of misunderstanding. To create perfect society people would need to be mechanical and like robot which is not possible (now). The question is we can not have equality as equality means 0 and 0 = death of society which slowly getting more apparent in Europe. 

Edited December 16, 2016 by SeekerOfHealing

[Apech]

Do you know that two people with rifle can wipe out there whole society?

 

 

 

 

Pinochet was a fascist and it worked but I'm not talking about fascist which is a lot of stigma to this word and a lot of misunderstanding. To create perfect society people would need to be mechanical and like robot which is not possible (now). The question is we can not have equality as equality means 0 and 0 = death of society which slowly getting more apparent in Europe. 

 

http://mneumann.tripod.com/pinochet.html