How to not Hate but Love and Enjoy Sorrow (negative feeling)?

[Shad282]

I have been coming to a conclusion that, running to meditation or any other "healing" techniques is just another way for the mind to escape what is and build a resistance to it, which win turns creates persistence.

 

So, my conclusion seems  to be going toward loving and enjoying what is even if it was negative as much as sorrow, which will allow us to experience it, and thus, there is no resistance. and maybe it may heal the permanent reaction to the memory that is causing sorrow and such. 

 

Please, don't throw concepts like (accept what is, allow, let go), please, provide explanation in terms of how to, what state of mind, or a feeling state that is needed to reach a Genuine feeling of loving and joy, not just a fake one that is like: "oh i love you, i'm enjoying this" but deep down we hate it soo bad and want to be positive. 

 

And please avoid techniques that are used to make us focus on something else to feel happy and joy as a result of escaping the negative feeling and ignoring it. Im looking for something that would dive deep into that feeling and embody it to love it and enjoy it.

 

Thank you!

[Jetsun]

A thing I heard Scott Kiloby say recently is that he has realised through his own experience and by meeting lots of students on the path is that the motivation for almost everyone on the spiritual path is avoidance. People trying to change and get away from what is.

 

That has been my path also- mostly avoidance, yet it still led to the fundamental realisation which is basically that avoidance doesn't work.

 

But in terms of how to, just notice that awareness already is unconditionally accepting all that is, including the bad stuff. It isn't awareness which rejects it is thoughts, mind and conditioning

[Kar3n]

I have had trouble with the negative that arises in meditation and other practices. I too, struggled with people telling me to just let go and not attach to it. I wanted to know HOW, dammit, because all of the words I was hearing were just not sinking in. You know why they were not sinking in? Because I was wearing every emotion, every sorrow, every blame and every personal injustice like a suit of armor. It was a familiar friend, I loved it, it was oddly comforting because I knew them and their effects; they surrounded and protected me from the unknown. Letting go of them was just not an option that I could grasp and was quite fearful of.

 

It is no secret that I do lots of light energy work, I have had some amazing and beautiful experiences doing so. I have also had some moments that were terrifying to my ego and defense mechanisms, my emotional suit of armor. I saw myself completely open, vulnerable to the unknown, free of all of the things that weighed me down and kept me from being where I really wanted to be, open and accepting, free from my own misery.

 

Someone asked me what I was afraid of. I had plenty of answers, but not one that I was going to give so freely, even to this person I love so dearly. In truth, the answer was everything, I was afraid of everything that I was not, everything that I had not yet experienced, everything that was not contained in my suit of armor. I really pondered why, for months.

 

I began to think about emotional responses and triggers that lead me to pull my armor so tightly around myself. They were all old and tired, I was tired of holding on to it, it was down right arduous. I thought about my intentions within the practices I was participating in, I thought about how it felt when I saw those glimpses of myself so free from the weights I was carrying around. I wanted that, but I still had no idea of how to get there. As much love as I had for everyone else, I questioned how much I really loved myself and the facade I had created so I could be comfortable in my own skin.

 

I had many tools to begin to dismantle the sense of self I created, but I had no idea how to use them in ways that made sense to me. It was only when I began to use my mind and critical thinking skills that I was able to see a way that made sense to me.

 

Thinking of all of my emotional baggage and their triggers, I questioned how beneficial they really were to my everyday life. When the emotional response to a memory or a vision would hit, I really examined, honestly, what and why I was holding on. What is the benefit to me? If a "friend" made me feel this way would I keep them in my life? Realizing that I was not being a friend to myself by dragging myself down with my armor I slowly started letting go of first the little things and then moved toward the harder and deeper issues. I hugged myself, I meditated, I cried... It was and still is hard saying good bye to that which has comforted and protected me for so long. It is most difficult to look in the mirror and say good bye to a persona I have nurtured for most of my life. It is even harder to have an honest conversation internally about the bits of myself I have grown to love even with all of their inflicting misery.

 

There is no quick fix, there is no magic pill, there are infinite words and practices that can be spoken on emotional aspects of our lives, but it takes courage and perseverance to dig deep within and rebuild ourselves from the inside out, the how and when lies solely within yourself.

[thelerner]

I collect guided meditations.  One I like is Evening Inventory Meditation (by Stin, My Meditation Station).  Like most hypnotic scripts it starts with a relaxation induction then it has you recall, what you regret, where you fell short, what you showed impatience and were rudeness. 

 

You can't learn from what you hide from.  Emotions buried will resurface, in our actions or with physical symptoms.  When angry be angry, sad- be sad, grieving- cry.  Don't necessarily feed them, but don't run either.  We shouldn't over intellectual or try to solve our feelings, most often we just ought to be. 

 

 

Addon> Maybe this is doing what Shad282 said not to, ie don't just say accept.  So here's a method reportedly from the yogic tradition for dealing with strong negative emotion.   When you not in an emotional state.  Bring up something strong and negative, remember it felt.  Then let it go.  Repeat a few times. 

 

Anger anger anger, relax, empty your mind, then go back and forth.  Or do it with sadness; sad, not sad, repeat.  Get the hang of dealing with strong emotions then ending them on command by practicing them when you're not being controlled by them. 

[Stosh]

I have been coming to a conclusion that, running to meditation or any other "healing" techniques is just another way for the mind to escape what is and build a resistance to it, which win turns creates persistence.

 

So, my conclusion seems  to be going toward loving and enjoying what is even if it was negative as much as sorrow, which will allow us to experience it, and thus, there is no resistance. and maybe it may heal the permanent reaction to the memory that is causing sorrow and such. 

 

Please, don't throw concepts like (accept what is, allow, let go), please, provide explanation in terms of how to, what state of mind, or a feeling state that is needed to reach a Genuine feeling of loving and joy, not just a fake one that is like: "oh i love you, i'm enjoying this" but deep down we hate it soo bad and want to be positive. 

 

And please avoid techniques that are used to make us focus on something else to feel happy and joy as a result of escaping the negative feeling and ignoring it. Im looking for something that would dive deep into that feeling and embody it to love it and enjoy it.

 

Thank you!

Ok so whats your response if you're having an nice conversation somewhere and a moderator pops in to tell you that your placement of commas and paragraphs isn't up to snuff, and then demonstrates where they think you need to make corrections to comply with their standards.... ?

[doc benway]

I have been coming to a conclusion that, running to meditation or any other "healing" techniques is just another way for the mind to escape what is and build a resistance to it, which win turns creates persistence.

 

So, my conclusion seems  to be going toward loving and enjoying what is even if it was negative as much as sorrow, which will allow us to experience it, and thus, there is no resistance. and maybe it may heal the permanent reaction to the memory that is causing sorrow and such. 

 

Please, don't throw concepts like (accept what is, allow, let go), please, provide explanation in terms of how to, what state of mind, or a feeling state that is needed to reach a Genuine feeling of loving and joy, not just a fake one that is like: "oh i love you, i'm enjoying this" but deep down we hate it soo bad and want to be positive. 

 

And please avoid techniques that are used to make us focus on something else to feel happy and joy as a result of escaping the negative feeling and ignoring it. Im looking for something that would dive deep into that feeling and embody it to love it and enjoy it.

 

Thank you!

 

The Bön tradition takes exactly this approach. We acknowledge and fully experience what thoughts or emotions are present. In the context of resting in the correct view, they naturally liberate.

 

There is a succinct and elegant method known as the Five-fold Teachings of Dawa Gyaltsen that offer a very direct way to cultivate this. Dawa Gyaltsen's teachings can be remembered in a simple poem -

 

Vision is mind

Mind is empty

Emptiness is clear light

Clear light is union

Union is great bliss

 

Here is a link to the first in a series of 8 free online teachings on this method -

 

I hope it helps you.

 

 

 

[roger]

I have been coming to a conclusion that, running to meditation or any other "healing" techniques is just another way for the mind to escape what is and build a resistance to it, which win turns creates persistence.

 

So, my conclusion seems  to be going toward loving and enjoying what is even if it was negative as much as sorrow, which will allow us to experience it, and thus, there is no resistance. and maybe it may heal the permanent reaction to the memory that is causing sorrow and such. 

 

Please, don't throw concepts like (accept what is, allow, let go), please, provide explanation in terms of how to, what state of mind, or a feeling state that is needed to reach a Genuine feeling of loving and joy, not just a fake one that is like: "oh i love you, i'm enjoying this" but deep down we hate it soo bad and want to be positive. 

 

And please avoid techniques that are used to make us focus on something else to feel happy and joy as a result of escaping the negative feeling and ignoring it. Im looking for something that would dive deep into that feeling and embody it to love it and enjoy it.

 

Thank you!

 

There's a bliss, an ecstasy, in life, including in suffering, that need simply be recognized as such. In fact, it really need not even be recognized, because it's already there.

 

Some people enjoy being miserable.

 

Look deeply at your own suffering. Try to see the bliss, the "deliciousness," of it.

 

There was a young man who said he was only happy when he was angry. His anger gave him a sense of vital being, a sense of self-worth, of justice.

 

It's like the fact that it can feel GOOD to cry. There's a pleasure in crying.

 

And it's crazy, but often, the deeper the pain you feel when you cry, the deeper the release, the catharsis.

 

It's like the more your tears hurt, the greater the pleasure.

 

Just try to see that there's ALREADY a pleasure in your suffering. You just need to recognize it.

[Brian]

Ok so whats your response if you're having an nice conversation somewhere and a moderator pops in to tell you that your placement of commas and paragraphs isn't up to snuff, and then demonstrates where they think you need to make corrections to comply with their standards.... ?

I am curious. Has this happened to you? Have official grammar police inserted yourself into your conversations to correct your written English?

[thelerner]

To the OP, I have this poem http://www.julianmaddock.info/poetry/please-call-me-by-my-true-names.html

 

Please Call Me by My True Names

Don't say that I will depart tomorrow—

even today I am still arriving.

 

Look deeply: every second I am arriving

to be a bud on a Spring branch,

to be a tiny bird, with still-fragile wings,

learning to sing in my new nest,

to be a caterpillar in the heart of a flower,

to be a jewel hiding itself in a stone

 

I still arrive, in order to laugh and to cry,

to fear and to hope.

The rhythm of my heart is the birth and death

of all that is alive.

 

I am a mayfly metamorphosing

on the surface of the river.

And I am the bird

that swoops down to swallow the mayfly.

 

I am a frog swimming happily

in the clear water of a pond.

And I am the grass-snake

that silently feeds itself on the frog.

 

I am the child in Uganda, all skin and bones,

my legs as thin a bamboo sticks.

And I am the arms merchant,

selling deadly weapons to Uganda.

I am the twelve-year-old girl,

refugee on a small boat,

who throws herself into the ocean

after being raped by a sea pirate.

And I am the pirate,

my heart not yet capable

of seeing and loving.

 

I am a member of the politburo,

with plenty of power in my hands.

And I am the man who has to pay

his "debt of blood" to, my people,

dying slowly in a forced labor camp.

 

My joy is like Spring, so warm

it makes flowers bloom all over the Earth.

 

My pain is like a river of tears,

so vast it fills the four oceans.

 

Please call me by my true names,

so I can hear all my cries and laughter at once,

so I can see that my joy and pain are one.

 

Please call me by my true names,

so I can wake up

and the door of my heart

could be left open,

the door of compassion.

 

Thich Nhat Hanh
published in Earthlight Mahazine

[SeekerOfHealing]

I have been coming to a conclusion that, running to meditation or any other "healing" techniques is just another way for the mind to escape what is and build a resistance to it, which win turns creates persistence.

 

Pardon me, but this conclusion is totally wrong - you seem to not understand motion of meditation or healing techniques. "Escapism" is not related to things you do but how or with what feeling, idea you doing that. Running to meditation and healing techniques is right if the meditation and methods are right.

[sillybearhappyhoneyeater]

Negativity is part of life and you can't avoid it so don't try.

Feeling negative, even feelings of hatred for yourself and others can have positive results if you interpret and act on them properly.

One of the greatest spiritual falsehood perpetuated since the Kurt Cobain generation is that if you hate yourself, you must also want to die.

Instead of hating yourself and wanting to die, why not hate yourself and want to improve?

If you feel angry about something, it either means something is wrong with you or something else in your life.  If you can fix it, you should do your best to do so and then things will improve for you.   Only cowards and children run away from pain and only idiots revel in it.

[SeekerOfHealing]

Negativity is not part of a life but results of ignorance - that why is good to study buddhist with taoism.

 

Feeling negative, even feelings of hatred for yourself and others can have positive results if you interpret and act on them properly.

and you teaching meditation? you just attained snake-oil seller level which is a shame. @Shad if you want to use meditation to relief suffering (which is results of ignorance) the only way is path of buddhism - if you are looking for permanent solution.

[thelerner]

Negativity is not part of a life but results of ignorance - that why is good to study buddhist with taoism.

 

.. you just attained snake-oil seller level which is a shame. ..

 

Two thoughts. 

One, writinging someone attained snake-oil level is a bit dark for a post and thread against negativity. 

Two, imo, unless your truly saintly, there are things in life, that are simply bad, you can't spin them, just acknowledge there truth and do your best. 

[SeekerOfHealing]

Saying that someone is snake oil salesman is positive as it's exclude negativity and falseness in peoples life. Your correctness is disease because with such logic negativity will eat you up endlessly.

 

Your logic is followed by those who call uncomfortable truths (like islam terrorism = oh you are racist) there is no sense in it.

 

People who saying negativity is part of life and stuff like this are the worst kind as they spreading their disease thinking they spreading cure.

 

 

Also @Shad never ever do conclusion based on your ignorance, unsatisfied state or when you fed up, it will actually drag you down more. Building more wall with your thoughts and trying to understand/grasp something is like enter burning house, you can feel pretty safe for a while but you will end up smoked.

Edited December 18, 2016 by SeekerOfHealing

[Shad282]

Ok so whats your response if you're having an nice conversation somewhere and a moderator pops in to tell you that your placement of commas and paragraphs isn't up to snuff, and then demonstrates where they think you need to make corrections to comply with their standards.... ?

well i don't really care .

[Kar3n]

Negativity is not part of a life but results of ignorance - that why is good to study buddhist with taoism.

 

and you teaching meditation? you just attained snake-oil seller level which is a shame. @Shad if you want to use meditation to relief suffering (which is results of ignorance) the only way is path of buddhism - if you are looking for permanent solution.

 

A snake oil seller or salesman is a derogatory term and deemed as in insult that was unprovoked and uncalled for. You may have an opinion about what someone else says, and that is fine, but you also need to realize that just because it does not resonate with you does not mean it will not strike a chord with the OP or another reader and make perfect sense.

 

Saying that someone is snake oil salesman is positive as it's exclude negativity and falseness in peoples life. Your correctness is disease because with such logic negativity will eat you up endlessly.

 

Your logic is followed by those who call uncomfortable truths (like islam terrorism = oh you are racist) there is no sense in it.

 

People who saying negativity is part of life and stuff like this are the worst kind as they spreading their disease thinking they spreading cure.

 

 

Also @Shad never ever do conclusion based on your ignorance, unsatisfied state or when you fed up, it will actually drag you down more. Building more wall with your thoughts and trying to understand/grasp something is like enter burning house, you can feel pretty safe for a while but you will end up smoked.

Odd how being a snake oil salesman can go from being a shame for a mediation teacher to a positive thing in a matter of one hour and seven minutes. It has been explained many times over the last couple of weeks that we can refute or reject the practice, but taking jabs at and insulting practitioners is out of bounds.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snake_oil

Snake oil, originally a fraudulent liniment without snake extract, has come to refer to any product with questionable or unverifiable quality or benefit. By extension, a snake oil salesman is someone who knowingly sells fraudulent goods or who is themselves a fraud, quack, or charlatan.

[thelerner]

Saying that someone is snake oil salesman is positive as it's exclude negativity and falseness in peoples life. Your correctness is disease because with such logic negativity will eat you up endlessly.

 

Your logic is followed by those who call uncomfortable truths (like islam terrorism = oh you are racist) there is no sense in it.

 

Cool, you're a real snake oil saleperson, Seeker.  You know that don't you?

 

didn't work, writing it still feels negative to me. 

[Shad282]

I have had trouble with the negative that arises in meditation and other practices. I too, struggled with people telling me to just let go and not attach to it. I wanted to know HOW, dammit, because all of the words I was hearing were just not sinking in. You know why they were not sinking in? Because I was wearing every emotion, every sorrow, every blame and every personal injustice like a suit of armor. It was a familiar friend, I loved it, it was oddly comforting because I knew them and their effects; they surrounded and protected me from the unknown. Letting go of them was just not an option that I could grasp and was quite fearful of.

 

It is no secret that I do lots of light energy work, I have had some amazing and beautiful experiences doing so. I have also had some moments that were terrifying to my ego and defense mechanisms, my emotional suit of armor. I saw myself completely open, vulnerable to the unknown, free of all of the things that weighed me down and kept me from being where I really wanted to be, open and accepting, free from my own misery.

 

Someone asked me what I was afraid of. I had plenty of answers, but not one that I was going to give so freely, even to this person I love so dearly. In truth, the answer was everything, I was afraid of everything that I was not, everything that I had not yet experienced, everything that was not contained in my suit of armor. I really pondered why, for months.

................................ .

Thank you Karen for your deep thoughts and information and explanations.

 

I did try to think and question my emotions and such, i did collect a lot of info, i know the memories and  how they are getting triggered, what they mean but i know them and i keep getting triggered by them and i don't know how to approach them to heal them, i have them, i see them, i feel them, but how to stop being triggered and heal them?

 

I do acknowledge that i have sometimes, love to some negative emotions and that i try to recall the memories to make myself sad and depressed. thus, i 'm trying to find the approach to heal the pain and allow it to be without becoming attached and have a pleasure from pain. it is kinda tricky. 

[Shad282]

Saying that someone is snake oil salesman is positive as it's exclude negativity and falseness in peoples life. Your correctness is disease because with such logic negativity will eat you up endlessly.

 

Your logic is followed by those who call uncomfortable truths (like islam terrorism = oh you are racist) there is no sense in it.

 

People who saying negativity is part of life and stuff like this are the worst kind as they spreading their disease thinking they spreading cure.

 

 

Also @Shad never ever do conclusion based on your ignorance, unsatisfied state or when you fed up, it will actually drag you down more. Building more wall with your thoughts and trying to understand/grasp something is like enter burning house, you can feel pretty safe for a while but you will end up smoked.

Even tho it is a little bit not too related to the main question of thread. 

 

First, saying Islam terrorism ... yes you are racist, by logic, ethics, philosophy, Buddhism, Taoism and Christianity...

 

Life is made out of contrast... if there is no opposite of the thing you are experiencing, you wouldn't be able to experience it.

 

A fish swimming always in water, wouldn't know that water exist and won't be aware of it, because it didn't experience its non-existence. 

 

Negativity does not exist, it is a situation we/mind judge it as negative, so by default and according to buddhism it is just a judgement and it does not exist. 

 

So if you want to speak about buddhism and taoism, you have to drop the judgement on all stuff, from religions, up to situations and energy, = terrorism, wrong, negative (bad) ....etc.

 

In my thread here, I'm using the word "negativity" to describe a certain type of situation, that we JUDGE as bad because of how we/the mind react to it, but in reality, it is just a situation, energy, as is.

 

 

Thank you and I agree on this :

 

"Escapism" is not related to things you do but how or with what feeling, idea you doing that.

[SeekerOfHealing]

Do metta meditation if you need to feel okay or feel not negative because it's all about it. No need to beat up around bush. 

[Shad282]

Do metta meditation if you need to feel okay or feel not negative because it's all about it. No need to beat up around bush. 

been doing it, also went on retreat and learned how to. thanks

[mvingon]

Even tho it is a little bit not too related to the main question of thread. 

 

First, saying Islam terrorism ... yes you are racist, by logic, ethics, philosophy, Buddhism, Taoism and Christianity...

 

Life is made out of contrast... if there is no opposite of the thing you are experiencing, you wouldn't be able to experience it.

 

A fish swimming always in water, wouldn't know that water exist and won't be aware of it, because it didn't experience its non-existence. 

 

Negativity does not exist, it is a situation we/mind judge it as negative, so by default and according to buddhism it is just a judgement and it does not exist. 

 

So if you want to speak about buddhism and taoism, you have to drop the judgement on all stuff, from religions, up to situations and energy, = terrorism, wrong, negative (bad) ....etc.

 

In my thread here, I'm using the word "negativity" to describe a certain type of situation, that we JUDGE as bad because of how we/the mind react to it, but in reality, it is just a situation, energy, as is.

 

 

Thank you and I agree on this :

 

"Escapism" is not related to things you do but how or with what feeling, idea you doing that.

This. A million times, this. I would make one small distinction. Since Muslims can be of any race, I feel it's simply Islamaphobia. But we see from some posters, they won't accept words ending with "phobia." I'm open for a better word.

 

An aside: Jesus was a Jew (if Jesus even existed). Some Jews have white skin, others have black skin. Same with Muslims, Christians, etcetera.

 

Thank you for this post.

[SeekerOfHealing]

Try to go to retreat metta with Bhante Vimalaramsi, his students get into arupa jhana very quickly and effortless with right guidance suffering only exists in regular consciousness. 

Edited December 19, 2016 by SeekerOfHealing

[MIchael80]

Hi Shad282!

 

Scott Kiloby was mentioned...his work is powerful and helps a lot of People. We have incredible amounts of imprinting within us. Not wanting to feel bad is what keeps the ego /seperated self alive (its resistance against Feeling bad is one of its cores). Look into his work. Also very powerful (same work) but from a different angle is Michael Browns "the presence process". (its a book but there are a lot of vids on YouTube).

Being able to feel negative emotions fully without acting on them takes time because it goes against the cycle of samsara but it can be trained like everyting else and the more of These imprints are released the more a natural joy and ease will come (and also the understanding of true love).

all the best

Michael

[sillybearhappyhoneyeater]

I can assure you I have never seen snake oil even once in my life, although I did try snake wine once.  Luckily I only had a little tiny tea cup of it, but my mate has a bunch and got really stupid in public.   We ended up doing kung fu in a park and singing Michael Buble songs to each other, it was lots of fun.

 

Anyway, vis-a-vis negativity, most people who live in society will have to learn to deal constructively with negativity.  The original spirit of my post was that it is better to learn to recognize the parts of yourself that need to be fixed and then work on fixing them than to use various methods to avoid them.   I don't study Buddhism,  but I've heard some Buddhist friends talk about how even meditation can become an addiction if you use it for the wrong reasons.   I personally don't think people should run away from their problems, but should instead make wise and careful decisions about how to deal with them.   Edit:  I just realized the humour of being an advocate of useful negativity in regard to my position as a meditation teacher, since telling people that meditation won't solve all of their problems is really shit advertising.  oh well, Cest la guerre, cest la vis.

 

Professor Jordan Peterson at the University of Toronto talks about the movie Pinnochio as an example of how people learn to genuinely be their own persons.   He says that at the beginning, Geppetto's  hope is that one day Pinnochio will stop being a puppet and become a real boy, and then as Pinnochio goes through is trials and tribulations, he gradually grows and becomes stronger, and against all odds, eventually the strings are cut, he is no longer a puppet, but instead, he is his own person.

Peterson says that this is the best thing that anyone can do (its cute when he talks about it on camera, because his voice chokes a bit and his eyes start welling up, you can see that he holds this as a deep personal conviction).    as part of my own personal philosophy, I've also adopted this way of thinking.  It is very true and very useful as a way to help people navigate through a very difficult life full of suffering and compromise.

 

If you personally have achieved a life without suffering, I highly commend you, but for the rest of us mortals, most of us will have a long way to travel on that road.

 

Ci bei ci bei.

Edited December 20, 2016 by sillybearhappyhoneyeater