Hostility towards Russian members?

[mvingon]

I've read comments in my short time here about angry Russians, but seen no angry posts. Admittedly, I didn't dig deeply into the backlogs, just read threads interesting to me, from the beginning. Also just saw another post denigrating Russian Taoist teaching, and I've seen several. Why? What makes people so sure a Russian can't be a decent Taoist? Also the alchemy stuff.

 

For a site that seems to love Putin (he's a man, and intelligent, no more, no less, to me... politics aside), it seems like a lot of hostility is directed toward Russian members. The Russians I've met, real life, or "met" online seem really decent, nay, really warm and generous people, but often very direct, which I actually appreciate.

 

Am I missing a backstory?

[Kar3n]

Do some reading, particularly the moderation logs. You will find links there to get you started in the most recently posted in threads.

 

It is not about nationalities or race, it has been about differences in alchemic systems of practice that ultimately evolved in to a shit show of epic proportions that topics like this do not help to alleviate.

 

Happy reading

[mvingon]

I'll pass. I actually enjoyed the posts I've read, that you're calling "shit shows."

 

Could communications styles be part of the issue? Terse works for me, although I've learned to explain myself, as most North Americans don't seem to appreciate it, and assume I'm being rude. I'm not, I've just found the less words I use, the less words people can trip over, but gees, people can get offended, if you don't give them plenty to trip over and get hung up.

[idquest]

 it seems like a lot of hostility is directed toward Russian members.

 

This is just wrong. I've been a member here for almost 10 years and have not noticed any hostility to any nation or race group including Russians.

[Kar3n]

There could very well be some language barriers and semantics in play with some of the disagreements.

 

Don't get me wrong there is some good info in the threads that is not to be discounted in any manner, it is wading through all of the nonsense of arguing, insults and name calling that is the "shit show".

 

[Brian]

There could very well be some language barriers and semantics in play with some of the disagreements.

 

Don't get me wrong there is some good info in the threads that is not to be discounted in any manner, it is wading through all of the nonsense of arguing, insults and name calling that is the "shit show".

 

There was also some fairly significant owner moderation and formal "splitting and pitting" on some of those threads which rendered them more "presentable" than the way they played out in real-time.

[gendao]

I'll pass. I actually enjoyed the posts I've read, that you're calling "shit shows."

 

Could communications styles be part of the issue? Terse works for me, although I've learned to explain myself, as most North Americans don't seem to appreciate it, and assume I'm being rude. I'm not, I've just found the less words I use, the less words people can trip over, but gees, people can get offended, if you don't give them plenty to trip over and get hung up.

I also enjoy matter-of-fact dialogue and harsh debate, but I am in the minority.  The truth can be a bitter pill...

 

And while the Chinese will proverbially and literally "eat bitter," North Americans avoid it like the plague.

Compared to many Asian and European cultures, North Americans aren't very enthusiastic bitter eaters.

America is still probably the most sugar-philic and bitter-phobic culture the world has ever known. The ancient European tradition of “digestive” bitters never caught on here, nor do we embrace the Chinese ideal of including a bitter food as part of every meal. Of the three truly bitter foods Americans eat regularly — coffee, chocolate and beer — the first two are typically vigorously sweetened.

Ergo, "fundamentalist evangelists" of any stripe offering their brand of "absolutist truth" here tend to trigger extreme hostility.  Before Wu Liu Pai, there was Mo Pai, and then Kunlun, etc etc.  Just look up threads on any of those and you will see the same eventual pattern of a few of their faithful devotees defending them against angry mobs here to the bitter end...

Edited December 17, 2016 by gendao

[mvingon]

Thanks everyone, especially Kar3n. You're right, I didn't see the insults and name calling, in those threads. My b, thanks again.

[Aetherous]

I've personally referred to them as the "Russian school", but it wasn't intended to be in a culturally denigrating way. That's just a convenient means of referring to them, because they represent primarily Wuliupai, but secondarily Yuxianpai. Wuliupai is closed to those West of Russia, so calling them by what they are primarily is misleading for many forum members (they represent a tradition you can't train in). Furthermore, they are a Russian sub-branch of these Chinese schools, so calling them by the Chinese names would be misleading...and there aren't other Russian schools that we know about here on the forum...so to refer to them collectively in a simple way that anyone can understand - the Russian school.

Daobums is quite open to other cultures.

Edited December 17, 2016 by Aetherous

[TheWhiteRabbit]

I actually like Russians and the Russian language.

[Golden Dragon Shining]

=


 

Edited December 18, 2016 by Sionnach

[mvingon]

Lol'd. Maybe anyone can be too sensitive, depending on what's going on with them, at the time. I'm surely not a cuddly fluff bunny, at least outwardly all the time. That's dangerous. But I am definitely hi l hypersensitive, sometimes, and raise my hackles, where it's not always warranted.

 

Sometimes, the least lovable are the most in need of serious love.

 

Kar3n,

 

I took no offense at "Russian school."

 

I get it.

[Apech]

We all admire Russia these days #putinhackedmyemails

[awaken]

Oh...

 

I did not know who were attacking me these days.

 

Too many strange names.....>__<

 

Now I knew a little.

 

Russians' English is really good.......

 

 

I have never talked to a Russian before.

 

How interesting....

 

How terrible........

[mvingon]

The state of Russia is not the Russian people. The state may represent some Russians' attitudes and feelings, but not all. In the same way, the USA may represent some people's attitudes and feelings, but not all.

 

Example: when I found out what USA and Israel did, together, with Iran's centrifuges, I wasn't surprised, but it was completely irresponsible and just set off a chain of like reactions. Sure, states do it to each other all the time, and there are reasons, not always good or bad. But it was just careless, in any event, at least in forethought and planning.

 

And if anyone here thinks five eyes aren't watching the ordinary people... Yeah. It's the ordinary who are made to be examples; the elite sometimes get careless, bold, out simply stop caring. But the wary, cautious who leave no tracks survive.

[damdao]

Oh...

 

I did not know who were attacking me these days.

 

Too many strange names.....>__<

 

Now I knew a little.

 

Russians' English is really good.......

 

 

I have never talked to a Russian before.

 

How interesting....

 

How terrible........

 

I think you did the first move attacking Wuliupai in Opendao's thread, in the thread in which he offers skype interview for Q&A.

[dawei]

I think you did the first move attacking Wuliupai in Opendao's thread, in the thread in which he offers skype interview for Q&A.

 

I'm not sure why folks waste so much energy in such threads and finger pointing... but as this comment feels like 'fake news'... I'll bite.

 

Exactly what Thread that Opendao started where he offers skype interviews ?

[damdao]

(...)

 

Exactly what Thread that Opendao started where he offers skype interviews ?

 

This one:

http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/40192-open-talk-daoist-practice-alchemy-and-neigong-q-a-online/

[dawei]

This one:

http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/40192-open-talk-daoist-practice-alchemy-and-neigong-q-a-online/

 

There is no real conflict going on but a discussion with some disagreement/clarifications... not a single rude word spoken directly towards another.

 

 And even in the next exchange in her thread on "school" , they had started cordial enough with some difference of opinion... and then spiraled from there.

 

So you're really stirring a pot of inaccurate accusations... as this entire thread seems to be.

 

I would recommend you read my post here, and ergo only focus on your own posting and contributions.  Anything else will just lead you down this type of compromised posting.

 

http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/42779-lets-be-meaningful-and-polite-here/?p=725957

 

Best.  

[damdao]

So, I suppose that all these allusions to a "cheater "truuuuue" teacher (pai)" in so many post are general and not aimed to anybody in particular..

[thelerner]

 Before Wu Liu Pai, there was Mo Pai, and then Kunlun, etc etc.  Just look up threads on any of those and you will see the same eventual pattern of a few of their faithful devotees defending them against angry mobs here to the bitter end...

My recollection with Mo Pai (especially its main proponent here) was attacking other members and systems, ie calling other arts frauds, going out of its way to spam threads.  

 

I'm glad to see new experienced members join up.  But when a new group immediately gets into spam wars on multiple threads, when they bring up old grievances from threads that are years old, then they will get moderator attention.  

 

No group or method should have its threads spammed or be continually insulted, but this is a discussion site with a 1,000+ members, people are bound to disagree and have negative opinions on just about anything that is mentioned.  

 

The best thing to do is answer (or simply ignore) criticisms without insults, and try to keep the thread on target without being pulled into circular arguments.  Avoid tit for tat spam wars and do not carry them over to other threads. 

[dawei]

So, I suppose that all these allusions to a "cheater "truuuuue" teacher (pai)" in so many post are general and not aimed to anybody in particular..

 

Now your changing your argument from one post to many posts.  You're throwing darts.

 

I wish you could see that it is of no value to yourself nor others to find fault outside when there is enough to ponder within.

 

Focus on your own participate and contributions.  In the end, that is what you'll have to answer for or be responsible for, not another's.

 

Anyways, that is my advice and I'm not here to flesh out some kind of allusions people want to talk about.   I'm going to go back to just observing more.

[mvingon]

My mistake, I understood Kar3n's answer, here, but I see more clearly now. It's just hostility toward anyone who doesn't go along with hive mind of the in clique. And couched in fancy, enlightened screen names of people with fancy, enlightened, complicated practice. Glad I didn't waste time on *that*!

 

Even awaken, who doesn't make fancy claims with fancy words, was accused of being, 'I'm enlightened, you're not!" And she never said any such thing. A case of people getting offended, not being given anything to trip over.

 

Here's what's enlightening, to me: confident people don't have to tear others down, in order to feel superior.

 

Edited typos.

Edited December 19, 2016 by mvingon

[dawei]

It's just hostility toward anyone who doesn't go along with hive mind of the in clique. 

 

Understanding is better late than never

 

Before Wu Liu Pai, there was Mo Pai, and then Kunlun, etc etc.  Just look up threads on any of those and you will see the same eventual pattern of a few of their faithful devotees defending them against angry mobs here to the bitter end...

 

 Gendao has been a member long enough to make such an accurate statement of the issue...  maybe it takes close to 10 year 

 

 

But I saw it in about 2 years on staff...  It is a mob mentality and a mob, in forum-speak is just a 'group'.

 

This is my opinion that I have shared with staff rotations before:   TDB is historically a very individual-based practice forum and our guidelines and rules tend to support that concept or ideal; equal voice, equal respect, equal standing.

 

So what you can have happen, as has several times, is that a 'group' can easily fall into creating an 'us vs them' and the them turns into the entire board

 

Most of the groups come here together, accuse everyone of attacking them and dividing the board up... it has happened so many times, I've lost count.   

 

The current group in question has done this more than once before... and they are simply back facing their same nemesis in the end: Themselves.   Meaning, they form a loose coalition of voices and then claim they are being attacked.  OF course they don't tell you the member's they intentionally ran off the board... calling them fake and throwing everything including the kitchen sink at the person...  

 

As with most groups, that is why it may seem like there is some air of hostility that surrounds them; they don't generally come in peace in the first place but we continue to allow them  

[Brian]

 

Understanding is better late than never

 

 

Gendao has been a member long enough to make such an accurate statement of the issue... maybe it takes close to 10 year

 

 

But I saw it in about 2 years on staff... It is a mob mentality and a mob, in forum-speak is just a 'group'.

 

This is my opinion that I have shared with staff rotations before: TDB is historically a very individual-based practice forum and our guidelines and rules tend to support that concept or ideal; equal voice, equal respect, equal standing.

 

So what you can have happen, as has several times, is that a 'group' can easily fall into creating an 'us vs them' and the them turns into the entire board

 

Most of the groups come here together, accuse everyone of attacking them and dividing the board up... it has happened so many times, I've lost count.

 

The current group in question has done this more than once before... and they are simply back facing their same nemesis in the end: Themselves. Meaning, they form a loose coalition of voices and then claim they are being attacked. OF course they don't tell you the member's they intentionally ran off the board... calling them fake and throwing everything including the kitchen sink at the person...

 

As with most groups, that is why it may seem like there is some air of hostility that surrounds them; they don't generally come in peace in the first place but we continue to allow them

It is also quite interesting to observe which longtime Bums consistently ally themselves with the up-in-arms new-group-of-the-month. (Not always new, of course, and -- fortunately -- not quite monthly.)