Mair 4:5

[Marblehead]

Sir Motley of Southunc {{Perhaps the same imaginary person as Sir Motley of Southurb who appears at the beginning of the second chapter and Sir Sunflower of Southunc, who is featured in the sixth chapter.}} made an excursion to the Hillock of Shang.  {{A place in Honan.}}  There he saw an unusual tree so big that a thousand fourhorse chariots could be shaded by its leaves.

 

"Goodness!  What tree is this?" asked Sir Motley.  "It must have unusual timber."  {{Ts'ai means "timber" and "ability," "talent," or "worth," sometimes "genius."}}  Looking upward at the smaller branches, however, he saw that they were all twisted and unfit to be beams.

 

Looking downward at the massive trunk, he saw that it was so gnarled as to be unfit for making coffins.  If you lick one of its leaves, your mouth will develop ulcerous sores.  If you smell its foliage, you fall into a drunken delirium that lasts for three days.

 

"This tree is truly worthless," said Sir Motley, "and that is why it has grown so large.  Ah!  The spiritual man is also worthless like this."

[Taoist Texts]

   If you smell its foliage, you fall into a drunken delirium that lasts for three days.

 

 

whats not  to love?

[Marblehead]

whats not  to love?

 

Exactly.  Values are always condition dependent.

[Stosh]

Exactly.  Values are always condition dependent.

In this version , the tree represents hard work,  talent , salesmanship , self promotion, reputation , and the material profits of a lifetime,, in and of themselves these things aren't exactly fun ,they're requirements for living,, but one reaps the benefits in that way, , indirectly. This is Scrooges tree, its how he can afford the biggest goose , have parties with his family , and save Tiny Tim.

Edited December 19, 2016 by Stosh

[Marblehead]

Neat.  You saw more in that section than I did.

[Taoist Texts]

  This is Scrooges tree, its how he can afford the biggest goose , 

 

wait is not Scrooge a duck himself?

 

 

or even a goose...

 

Duck, duck, goose - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duck,_duck,_goose

1.  
2.  

Duck, duck, goose

 

 

man, this is deep man!

[Stosh]

I'm actually thinking of writing a spin on that story,, where Scrooge is the ascetic hero , and the ghosts show up at Bobs house. 

[Marblehead]

I actually had the opportunity to talk about "useful/useless" at the Nietzsche forum today.

[Stosh]

I actually had the opportunity to talk about "useful/useless" at the Nietzsche forum today.

What did you say? 

[Marblehead]

I forget.  Wait a minute.

[Marblehead]

The question was:

 

Can't there be  another way of looking at something?

My reply:

 

Sure, any condition/state at any time can almost always be viewed from a number of different perspectives. Right/wrong. Who is to decide?

Right now at the Taoist forum we are talking about the concept of useful/useless. The example being used is a tree that is totally useless for any carpenter. However, its uselessness has provided usefulness to the tree itself as it has been allowed to grow to its fullest capacity.

If we are useful we will be used by others. If we are useless we will be left alone so that we can follow our natural course.

[Stosh]

The question was:

 

Can't there be  another way of looking at something?

 

My reply:

 

Sure, any condition/state at any time can almost always be viewed from a number of different perspectives. Right/wrong. Who is to decide?

 

Right now at the Taoist forum we are talking about the concept of useful/useless. The example being used is a tree that is totally useless for any carpenter. However, its uselessness has provided usefulness to the tree itself as it has been allowed to grow to its fullest capacity.

 

If we are useful we will be used by others. If we are useless we will be left alone so that we can follow our natural course.

Do You think the classic ones point at one or the other view? oooh toughie question

Edited December 19, 2016 by Stosh

[Marblehead]

Do You think the classic ones point at one or the other view? oooh toughie question

 

Yes, tough question.

 

However, as we are studying Chuang Tzu right now I can state that I believe that he felt that being useless is very useful.  Why else would he want to be left alone to drag his tail in the mud?

[Stosh]

Yes, tough question.

 

However, as we are studying Chuang Tzu right now I can state that I believe that he felt that being useless is very useful.  Why else would he want to be left alone to drag his tail in the mud?

Ahh, yes ,, but is dragging his tail in the mud putting his nose to the grindstone , or living it up?

That , IS the question. ... Which is odd that you mention it , because I think I saw today on an intro to Mair's  thing .., that the turtle was replaced with a hog ,, in his opinion , for some reason. ( it was a pdf introducing his idea that he wanted to present out of the box thinking related to the Cz) 

[Marblehead]

I doubt it was either the grindstone or the living it up.  More at "just being".

 

No, the turtle was never replaced with a hog.  The hog is a different story - different  concept.

[Stosh]

I doubt it was either the grindstone or the living it up.  More at "just being".

 

No, the turtle was never replaced with a hog.  The hog is a different story - different  concept.

Ok,,, I don't know the hog one. 

[Marblehead]

Ok,,, I don't know the hog one. 

 

We'll get to it eventually.

[Stosh]

Ok.. how did the Fred fans take , your take on usefulness?

[Marblehead]

Ok.. how did the Fred fans take , your take on usefulness?

 

No one has commented to it yet.  The person I am having the discussion with logs in only every three or four days.  One other member did mention that he was enjoying our discussion though.

[Stosh]

No one has commented to it yet.  The person I am having the discussion with logs in only every three or four days.  One other member did mention that he was enjoying our discussion though.

A conversation moving along that slow, is hard for me to maintain interest in, though I always figured that if I did take more time that I would be less volatile. I , however, was always a proponent of the Editorial process that they used to do in politics. Candidates would write a letter, someone else would direct a letter to addressing that one.

It potentially gives time for fact checking , structuring ones wording to touch particular points and consult with staff etc. As long as the Candidate was honestly speaking for himself , I think it would be super informative. 

[Marblehead]

After they respond I do have to go back to see what I said previously as well as make sure I stay to the subject matter as much as I can.

 

But too, it gives me the chance to re-think my thoughts.  Maybe I didn't express myself well the first time.

[Stosh]

Considering this myself, 

 

Can't there be  another way of looking at something? 

 

I don't get why someone would ask it. What's missing? did fred say there was some absoluteness to things that were actually true? 

[Marblehead]

Considering this myself, 

 

Can't there be  another way of looking at something? 

 

I don't get why someone would ask it. What's missing? did fred say there was some absoluteness to things that were actually true? 

 

Actually, this discussion isn't about Nietzsche or his philosophy.  It's mostly about emotions and a few other concepts on the side.

[Stosh]

Considering this myself, 

 

Can't there be  another way of looking at something? 

 

I don't get why someone would ask it. What's missing? did fred say there was some absoluteness to things that were actually true? 

I never said it was.

[Marblehead]

Okay, I think.