@WuLiu Pai members: Secret of the Golden Flower

[Wells]

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Edited March 2, 2017 by Wells

[LaoZiDao]

I have a question for the WuLiu Pai members concerning the Secret of the Golden Flower practice.

I can't read the original chinese text, so I am not sure about the answer to the following question

and I am asking you guys:

Doesn't the Secret of the Golden Flower text claim that the described technique actually creates yuan chi and therefore ming?

Then why do you (as far as I understand) classify that technique as a xing technique

and why do you think that other ming-replenishing techniques are necessary at all?

 

 

Do you have any quotes of the text you are referring to specifically?

 

P.S. I am not a WLP Student, but I am a student of Yuxianpai and have received initial methods of Wuliupai.

 

P.S.S. Maybe I missed it or have not seen it, where did you see that Wuliupai School said it's opinion about that scripture?

 

 

Edited December 20, 2016 by LaoZiDao

[Wells]

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[Wells]

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[Wells]

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[Wells]

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[LaoZiDao]

I believe to remember that some time ago opendao said in a discussion here that the Secret of the Golden Flower cultivates only xing, but I am not sure to remember correctly.

Therefore I made this thread.

 

I see, can you find the thread? Otherwise we'd just be assuming what opendao had meant without the context of the thread.

 

 

"金华即金丹"

 

Yeah, It said exactly, 'Golden Flower (金华) is Golden Dan (金丹)'.

[Wells]

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[Wells]

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[LaoZiDao]

Thanks for verifying the evidence!

I will try to find it,

but in regard of this discovered evidence I'd like to hear from him or another WuLiu Pai member anyway

why they let people train with tao gong or whatever if (allegedly) the Secret of the Golden Flower is the one and only practice that does the trick anyway and nothing else is needed additionally!

 

I feel like this has been answered a lot on there forums.

 

Daogong is needed to find the balance, harmony, and stability. Also to understand the channels, feel and understand how the Nature effects human's energy, state, and so on. It's a preparation work with the post-heaven Qi which is important to restore the body's health and prepare for transformations in Neidan, as well as helping people improve their fate, clean the Heart and have better chance at receiving Neidan full transmission, and completing the work!

 

Second of all, you cannot learn methods from books.. it's been discussed on here a lot.

[Wells]

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Edited March 2, 2017 by Wells

[SeekerOfHealing]

Yuan Qi is related to the lights which you can see. 

[LaoZiDao]

The website has the chinese text besides the english translation!

 

http://thesecretofthegoldenflower.com/ch1.html

 

Chinese original:

8. 金华即光，光是何色？取象于金华，亦秘一光字在内。 是先天太乙之真气，水乡铅只一位者此也。

 

English translation:

8. The Golden Flower is light. What is light? It is symbolized by a golden flower, which hides the word light in it. It is the true energy of the prenatal Taiyi. This is what is meant by the saying, the lead in the homeland of water has only one taste.

 

I would assume that if the word "yuan chi" actually is contained in the text,

then it could be in this paragraph!

Are you able to check the chinese text above for the word "yuan chi"?

 

You can check your self for:

 

元炁

or

元氣

 

 

FYI It mentioned: 先天太乙之真气

 

Xiantian .. True Qi

[Wells]

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[Wells]

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[Daeluin]

Chinese original:

8. 金华即光，光是何色？取象于金华，亦秘一光字在内。 是先天太乙之真气，水乡铅只一位者此也。

 

English translation:

8. The Golden Flower is light. What is light? It is symbolized by a golden flower, which hides the word light in it. It is the true energy of the prenatal Taiyi. This is what is meant by the saying, the lead in the homeland of water has only one taste.

 

I am not a WuLiu Pai expert, but perhaps I may offer something which, from everything I've seen, seems to agree with WuLiu Pai.

 

In many of the texts I've come across, the idea is to gain access to the true yang that is hidden within the yin. It has only one taste, because, despite its myriad manifestations, they may all be traced back to the same root.

 

If we choose to use the image here, we can see that within the hou-tian, the jing nurtures the qi and bodily systems, and is burned as the light of the mind. They are all different, yet within the hou-tian are rooted in the jing, which is also related to the lead found in the homeland of water - called the metal within water in some texts.

 

By turning the light of the mind around and returning it to the lower dan tien we may use one method to preserve this true yang in all of its manifestations. This is the same meaning as empty the mind, fill the belly in the dao de jing. Through turning around the light we avoid wasting this xian-tian energy unnecessarily within the hou-tian side of things.

 

The way I have been guided to follow this text is related to this. I believe it is called a xing method, because it utilizes the control of the mind as part of navigating the stillness. The ming is thus naturally preserved and refined, so it is not that ming is not used, it is simply not part of the one method. I personally wouldn't call it blasting shen into the lower dan tien as opendao did, but it is possible this method differs somewhat from other methods which may be more related to zuowang. Perhaps it is related to using the light of the mind to dissolve the hou-tian energies and more directly return to the pre-celestial in some fashion which might be guided more specifically by a teacher.

 

In any case please forgive my musings and inability to point in a concise and clear direction that is backed by a verifiable lineage. Please feel free to remove this post. I am also curious and content to observe any replies from others.

[Ormus]

This book is great.But we need to remember that not all Nei Dan schools use it or accept it.

Original version is recived by method of planchette.which is specific Spirit writing cult method.It is chanelling of Immortals,in this case of Lu Dong Bin.And one of the biggest secrets is that many famose Nei Dan works are transsmited by Spirit writing.

Book is recived on Jingao Shan in Longmen Pai Temple.This branch of Longmen is the most esoteric and include in its practice some Hindu Tantra rituals(Vajra).

 

Original version is keep today on Jingai Shan,and what we read is one of much later translations of one of few diferent versions.For exaple later Longmen branches changed the text to suit their practice.

 

In the present time I only hear that Master Wang Li Ping teach according to this book.

 

If it is only Xing Gong,then this is more Quanzhen approach because they claim that Xin and Xing Gong are more important and that one who do Xing Gong with success automaticaly fix Ming Gong of itself.

 

Ormus

[awaken]

性光識光第十

 

呂祖曰。回光法。原通行住坐臥。只要自得機竅。吾前開示云。虛室生白光非白耶。但有一說。初未見光時。此為效驗。若見為光而有意著之。即落意識。非性光也。子不管他有光無光。只要無念生念。何謂無念。千休千處得。何謂生念。一念一生。持此念乃正念。與平日念不同。今心為念。念者現在心也。此心即光即藥。凡人視物。任眼一照去。不及分別。此為性光。如鏡之無心而照也。如水之無心而鑑也。少頃即為識光。以其分別也。鏡有影已無鏡矣。水有象已非水矣。光有識尚何光哉。

 

子輩初則性光。轉念則識。識起而光杳不可覓。非無光也。光已為識矣。黃帝曰。聲動不生聲而生響。即此義也。楞巖推勘入門曰。不在塵。不在識。惟選根。此則何意。塵是外務。所謂器界也。與吾了不相涉。逐之則認物為己。物必有還。通還戶牖。明還日月。借他為自。終非吾有。至於不汝還者。非汝而誰。明還日月。見日月之明無還也。天有無日月之時。人無有無見日月之性。若然則分別日月者。還可與為吾有耶。不知因明暗而分別者。當明暗兩忘之時。分別何在。故亦有還。此為內塵也。惟見性無還。見見之時。見非是見。則見性亦還矣。還者還其識。流轉之見性。即阿難使汝流轉。心目為咎也。初八還辨見時。上七者。皆明其一一有還。姑留見性。以為阿難柱杖。究竟見性即帶八識。非真不還也。最後并此一破。則方為真見性。真不還矣。子輩回光。正回其最初不還之光。故一毫識念用不著。使汝流轉者。惟此六根。使汝成菩提者。亦惟此六根。而塵與識皆不用。非用根也。用其根中之性耳。今不墮識回光。則用根中之元性。落識而回光。則用根中之識性。毫釐之辨在此也。

 

用心即為識光。放下乃為性光。毫釐千里。不可不辨。識不斷。則神不生。心不空。則丹不結。心淨則丹。心空即藥。不著一物。是名心淨。不留一物。是名心空。空見為空。空猶未空。空忘其空。斯名真空。

 

This is the most important part.

 

識光 can't achieve golden Dan

 

Only 性光 can achieve golden Dan

 

But many people don't know what is the difference between 識光 and 性光

 

This is the first Dan dao classics I read

 

It is an important dao Classic

Edited December 20, 2016 by awaken

[Cheshire Cat]

I'm aware of three different versions of the text which were translated in English.

 

We have the Wilhelm translation which comes from a 1920 original print, paired with Hui Ming Jing and enriched with an interesting commentary.

This text is about cultivating one-pointedness and the small heavenly circle in sequence.

 

Then we have the Cleary translation which comes from a later print, and its methods are not focused on the body. But it includes chapters with undoubtedly alchemical symbolism which doesn't match with the simplicity of the techniques offered.

 

Then, thanks to Wang Li Ping we have the Ming version used by Longmen pai. It looks like an extended Cleary'so version.

[SeekerOfHealing]

At the end of the day is all about results - where are people who attained thru this book anything?

[A.A.Khokhlov]

What is usually described as "light" is related to Northern method of alchemy. We are now preparing a translation of article about Southern and Northern methods of Taoism, we are going to publish it soon.

 

Best Regards,

A.A.Khokhlov

[awaken]

At the end of the day is all about results - where are people who attained thru this book anything?

Things written in the book is available to cultivate.

 

For example , back light, is very practical and easy to operate.

 

What you need to do is let your focus back.

 

It is very easy.

 

People like to think a lot.

 

Back light just make the focus go back to us.

 

This way , the energy of thinking will be transformed to chi.

 

We just need to aware of our body.

 

Of course, this is just the first step.

 

The longer we get our focus back, the more chi we got.

 

And the chi will change by it self.

 

In the book, it mentioned about wu-gen-pian,

 

烏肝與兔髓black liver and rabbit spinal cord

擒來歸一處catch them back to one place

一粒復一粒it appears one point again and again

由微而至著from not clear to clear

 

Sorry for my poor English. if you don't understand my translation , please find another English version.

[awaken]

元神識神第二

 

呂祖曰。天地視人如蜉蝣。大道視天地亦泡影。惟元神真性則超元會而上之。其精氣則隨天地而敗壞矣。然有元神在。即無極也。生天生地皆由此矣。學人但能護元神。則超生在陰陽外。不在三界中。此見性方可。所謂本來面目是也。最妙者。光已凝結為法身。漸漸靈通欲動矣。此千古不傳之秘也。

 

Yuan Shen is 本來面目the original face

 

本來面目 is a phrase of 禪宗 Chuang zong

 

Yuan Shan is the awareness without ego-Shen

 

The people without enough cultivation will fall asleep when ego-Shen hide.

 

But the people with the right cultivation will dissolve the Ying and be aware when ego-Shen hide.

 

It is called samadhi, too.

 

 

To aware out original face , Yuang-Shen is the most important part of cultivation.

 

If a teacher can't aware of the original face, he can't be a dan dao teacher.

 

Maybe we can call him a Qi-goung teacher.

 

A dan dao teacher must know the original face and have samadhi easily.

 

He must go into the emptiness.

 

Or he can't claim he is a true teacher of dan dao.

 

For a beginner, it is not easy to find a true teacher.

 

We can find some more infirmations.

 

For example, this book is very good.

 

To let you know who is true teacher.

 

If you can understand this book totally, no one can cheat you that he is a true teacher.

 

Because you have the ability to distinguish them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

故回光所以煉魂。即所以保神。即所以制魄。即所以斷識。古人出世法。煉盡陰滓。以返純乾。

 

So going back light to practicing Hun, and to keep Shen, and to limit Po, and to stop ego-Shen.

 

The way that ancient people to 出世( get rid of the world, means stop the recycle of life and death)

 

By cultivating to finish all the Ying to go back to pure Yang.

 

 

 

The key point is "stopping ego-Shen"

 

No methods can stop ego-Shen.

 

Any methods will lead ego-Shen to keep on working.

 

Methods is for growing up chi, not for golden dan.

Edited December 20, 2016 by awaken

[Cheshire Cat]

A few passages which I consider fundamental in understanding the method of the golden flower.

 

Taken from http://thesecretofthegoldenflower.com/

 

作用不外一中，而枢机全在二目。

二目者，斗柄也，斡旋造化，转运阴阳。

 

the essential mechanism of action through non-action is in the two eyes. The two eyes are like the handle of the big dipper, which manages creation and operates yin and yang

 

 

----

 

《阴符经》云：“机在目”。

《黄帝素问》云：“人身精华，皆上注于空窍是也。

”得此一节，长生者在兹，超升者亦在兹矣。

此是贯彻三教工夫。

 

n the Yin Convergence Classic it is said: "The eyes are the key". In Suwen from The Inner Classic of the Yellow Emperor it is said: "The essence of the human body flows upward and fills the empty apertures". If one understands this, one has the key to attaining immortality and transcending the world. This is a practice that pervades the three religions of Confucianism, Taoism and Buddhism.

 

---

 

In the Ming version, we read something on this line "The deaf may eventually succeed, but for the blind, it will be very hard".

Edited December 20, 2016 by Cheshire Cat