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[LAOLONG]

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Edited January 24, 2017 by SHINTO

[thelerner]

Awful.   100's of million of people living where the atmosphere is a low grade poison.

 

 

from wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_in_China) before the current red alert disaster:

"Air pollution in China has gotten so bad that a study by the World Bank found that air pollution kills 750,000 people every year in China.^[40] Issued in response to record-high levels of air pollution in 2012 and 2013, the State Council’s September 2013 Action Plan for the Prevention and Control of Air Pollution reiterated the need to reduce coal’s share in China’s energy mix to 65% by 2017.^[41] Amidst growing public concern, social unrest incidents are growing around the country. For example, in December 2011 the government suspended plans to expand a coal-fired power plant in the city of Haimen after 30,000 local residents staged a violent protest against it, because "the coal-fired power plant was behind a rise in the number of local cancer patients, environmental pollution and a drop in the local fishermen's catch."^[42]

 

I'm often thought to be Pollyannish on danger here.  Dismissing calls for coming apocalypses.  Part of that is I see people jump to quickly on the hysteria wagon because a danger is 'new', thus it must be incredibly horrible and inevitable, disregarding quieter experts in favor of the conspiracy shouts.

 

On the other hand, I see Coal, is a killer.  Generally its not seen as such because it spreads its poison out so wide, diluting the threat, but the heavy metals, poisons and particulates are still there.  The daily cost of coal plants around the world is staggering.  Each one, even the cleaner ones are releasing tons of poisons.  (Actually the factoids below say cleaner ones with baghouses can reduce particullates by 99% thus 5 tons, 10,000 pounds of particulates into the air if they're clean. They do 10 times worse cleaning up mercury though)

 

We need power, but coal tends to be too high a price.  Cars too, we need them, but it's worth paying more as a society to haves ones that don't pollute as much.  If its got a motor on it, there have to be standards to make sure its not a pollution hog.  Encouraging intelligent conservation saves energy, and lives. 

 

We find the sweet spot, or we slowly poison ourselves and our environment. 

 

 

FWIW I'll stick to pure poisons so I don't get tangled up by other controversies-(http://www.ucsusa.org/clean-energy/coal-and-other-fossil-fuels/coal-air-pollution#.WFr0VZLee5Y)

 

• Particulate matter: Particulate matter (also referred to as soot or fly ash) can cause chronic bronchitis, aggravated asthma, and premature death, as well as haze obstructing visibility. A typical uncontrolled plant emits 500 tons of small airborne particles each year. Baghouses installed inside coal plant smokestacks can capture as much as 99 percent of the particulates.
• Mercury: Coal plants are responsible for more than half of the U.S. human-caused emissions of mercury, a toxic heavy metal that causes brain damage and heart problems. Just 1/70th of a teaspoon of mercury deposited on a 25-acre lake can make the fish unsafe to eat. A typical uncontrolled coal plants emits approximately 170 pounds of mercury each year. Activated carbon injection technology can reduce mercury emissions by up to 90 percent when combined with baghouses. ACI technology is currently found on just 8 percent of the U.S. coal fleet.

Other harmful pollutants emitted annually from a typical, uncontrolled coal plant include approximately:

• 114 pounds of lead, 4 pounds of cadmium, other toxic heavy metals, and trace amounts of uranium. Baghouses can reduce heavy metal emissions by up to 90 percent³.
• 720 tons of carbon monoxide, which causes headaches and places additional stress on people with heart disease.
• 220 tons of hydrocarbons, volatile organic compounds (VOC), which form ozone.
• 225 pounds of arsenic, which will cause cancer in one out of 100 people who drink water containing 50 parts per billion.

¹ EIA Data
² Typical plant assumptions: Capacity=600 MW; Capacity Factor=69%; Heat Rate=10,415; CO2 Emissions Rate=206 pounds of CO2/Million Btu
³ Nescaum. “Control Technologies to Reduce Conventional and Hazardous Air Pollutants from Coal-Fired Power Plants.” March 31, 2011.

[dawei]

As my wife said yesterday... the chinese are killing themselves...  

 

While smog is an obvious and current issue, at the heart of the matter is the irreverence for life on some level.

 

She showed me a factory that buys plastic by the billions of tons and turns that plastic into everything from goods too food additives.

 

Smog is just one of the visible evils going on...

[thelerner]

Its ironic that now, when costs of solar energy have plummeted greatly, it can't be used in places that need it the most due to smog. 

[dawei]

Its ironic that now, when costs of solar energy have plummeted greatly, it can't be used in places that need it the most due to smog. 

 

I think in a huge area like China.... it simply can't catch up to the effects of the use of coal....    They are using solar but it is like a small dent in a sky rise. 

[Gerard]

Thanks!! No longer interested in going anywhere close to China. To me Nature, pure air, clean water and a thriving wildlife are the most precious things in life. Helping fellow practitioners is also in my book of values.

 

As my teacher told me once: Gerard, you'll be very disappointed with modern China if you were to travel to that country tomorrow. I experienced the same thing but learning Bagua (especially) and getting my TCM qualifications were a priority regardless the toxic wasteland China (except for some remote areas) has become.

 

The mountains of New Zealand are really appealing.

[Gerard]

Air quality world map.

 

One has to be a lunatic to jump from a green area to that toxic red, purple colour. Very frigthening.

 

Love Australia!

[thelerner]

Air quality world map.

Love Australia!

Fascinating and frightening map. 

[gendao]

As my wife said yesterday... the chinese are killing themselves...  

 

While smog is an obvious and current issue, at the heart of the matter is the irreverence for life on some level.

The worst cities actually aren't even in China...

 

That said, when you have over a billion people and experienced suffering from human overpopulation, humans do start getting viewed with more equanimity with other life on the planet.

 

As in, the humancentric narcissism of viewing all human life as sacred - but all other life here as not - starts tapering off.

 

I mean honestly, how reverent really is a rampant consumer who ravages the Earth, destroys habitat for all other organisms, and even wages war against each other (while destroying everything else in the crossfire too)?

 

Wouldn't the rest of the planet be better off without us?  Agree or disagree?

Edited December 22, 2016 by gendao

[dawei]

Wouldn't the rest of the planet be better off without us?  Agree or disagree?

 

If I agree then I likely shouldn't give any further opinion as I would be talking about a state that I don't exist in... and if I disagree, then I am likely to be viewed as humancentric narcissism who ravages the Earth    

 

But I would say that while things would be quite different, I think the world would eventual go extinct once again anyways as it seems to be a natural cycle regardless of what remains behind.    

[thelerner]

.. nvrmd

[Golden Dragon Shining]

We have to return to agrarian communities, closer to nature. 



For that we need a change in values, firstly what is wealth? and also that of "equality", that it is not necessary for every person on this planet to have a car and iphone/ forcing an "equal" standard of living... promoted by international mega corps. $$$

Are we better for it?



 

Edited December 23, 2016 by Sionnach

[gendao]

On 12/22/2016 at 4:34 PM, dawei said:

If I agree then I likely shouldn't give any further opinion as I would be talking about a state that I don't exist in... and if I disagree, then I am likely to be viewed as humancentric narcissism who ravages the Earth    

 

But I would say that while things would be quite different, I think the world would eventual go extinct once again anyways as it seems to be a natural cycle regardless of what remains behind.  

Of course, so humanity's collective answer is c) - find something else to blame it on and "take action" against that, instead!  That way you can shift the blame and even pretend to be part of the solution, when you are actually at the root of the problem!

Quote

Deforestation in Brazil increased 30% in 12 months

RIO DE JANEIRO –  In the 12-month period that ended last August, deforestation in Brazil increased in almost 30 percent. 

It is an all-time record that has set off a loud alarm among scientists, environmentalists and everyone who knows that the region is not only the so-called “lung of the planet” but also home to about 2.5 million species of insects, tens of thousands of plants and about 2,000 birds and mammals. 

According to the latest report by the National Institute for Space Research (INPE), the Brazilian agency that monitors deforestation, between July 2015 and August 2016 roughly 3,100 square miles went up in smoke mostly to give way to farmland and further cement the country’s position as the world’s top exporter of meat products.

You know, a mature, old-growth forest is an apex ecosystem that takes centuries to grow.  And a native one cannot simply be replaced.  Yet, the most narcissistic WEIRDos on the planet have no problem just razing them down in matters of months...mainly to graze hamburgers.  For a 7 billion population that is still increasing exponentially in some places!

And as if this problem wasn't already bad enough, what happens in just another 25 years when the population adds yet another 3 billion???

 

Well according to mainstream WEIRDos, as long as we're cutting back on carbon emissions, then we're being totes green and everything will be A-OK!  You see, PEOPLE aren't really the problem, CARBON (a convenient, inanimate blame-sink) is!!!  Because carbon is what is clear-cutting forests to intentionally revert all habitats back into artificial perma-grasslands (purdy lawns) and impermeable pavement!

Edited July 25, 2017 by gendao

[Miffymog]

Just watched an interesting program about what has happened to some of the smaller Scottish islands where humans have left and moved to the main land. One of them was a couple of square miles in area and they left a herd of cows on it to fend for itself.

 

40 years later and after roughly 10 generations, the cows (and bulls) are surviving very nicely. They've found a number that seems to balance well with amount of food that's available and are doing very well.

 

Depending on what wipes us humans out, there's a very good chance that mother nature will carry on quite happily with out us. 

[gendao]

Just watched an interesting program about what has happened to some of the smaller Scottish islands where humans have left and moved to the main land. One of them was a couple of square miles in area and they left a herd of cows on it to fend for itself.

 

40 years later and after roughly 10 generations, the cows (and bulls) are surviving very nicely. They've found a number that seems to balance well with amount of food that's available and are doing very well.

 

Depending on what wipes us humans out, there's a very good chance that mother nature will carry on quite happily with out us. 

Well of course Nature will live on, but with a lot more obstacles (like pavement, buildings, etc) in the way.  Moreso, a lot of heirloom and native species will have simply gone extinct due to extended habitat loss and displacement.  And once gone, these gene sequences that took millions of years to evolve - can't be recovered.

 

This is something your average, disconnected WEIRDo can't appreciate - because they simply view Nature as a big green blob with few distinctions.  How many edible plants can you identify on a random local hike?  It's like asking a WEIRDo to locate any of the Middle Eastern countries that we've been bombing for decades now on a map.  Well if they can't even care enough to locate them, of course they don't care if they're also destroying them!

[gendao]

On 12/21/2016 at 3:41 PM, dawei said:

As my wife said yesterday... the chinese are killing themselves...  

 

While smog is an obvious and current issue, at the heart of the matter is the irreverence for life on some level.

 

She showed me a factory that buys plastic by the billions of tons and turns that plastic into everything from goods too food additives.

 

Smog is just one of the visible evils going on...

And Americans are also killing Chinese by using China as their national trash can...and they are finally getting fed up with it now in order to help save their environment!

Quote

China to U.S.: Please stop sending us your junk

For decades, shipping containers have been loaded with American scrap and waste and dispatched to China for recycling.

It's a $5 billion annual business that is now in danger of sinking.

Beijing notified the World Trade Organization in July that it plans to ban the import of 24 varieties of solid waste, including types of plastic and unsorted paper commonly sent from the U.S.

Scrap and waste is the sixth largest U.S. export to China.

The trade works like this: A huge number of container ships laden with consumer goods sail each year from China to American ports.

But the U.S. runs a massive trade deficit with China, and there is little demand for space on the return leg, or "backhaul." As a result, shipping companies offer major discounts on return runs to China.

Beijing says it's now banning some of the scrap categories out of concern for the environment.

The government told the WTO that it had found large amounts of dirty and hazardous material mixed with solid waste, leading to serious environmental pollution.

Quote

Tungsten, used to harden steel in ballistic missiles and in drill bits, has surged more than 50 percent in the last two months amid growing concern about supply cutbacks in China, where about 80 percent of the metal comes from. The country is clamping down on polluting mines and enforcing production quotas.

In 2012, it became a flash point when then U.S. President Barack Obama filed a complaint to the World Trade Organization against Chinese supply curbs.

China’s Ministry of Industry and Information Technology issued an edict on June 6 saying producers should stick to output quotas and that those without quotas, or which exceed the quotas, should halt production. Quotas also shouldn’t be granted to firms that infringe safety or environmental rules.

Yet the same Americans that love to criticize China's environmental degradation...are now upset that they are making these changes...in order to save their environment, LMFAO!!!

[Goldleaf]

Quote

The rest of the planet would be better off without us

 

There are enlightened individuals such as Buddha and his followers , Jesus and his disciples, who demonstrate that a life lived in peace is also a life lived in prosperity, respectful to the others and the environment.  (I mean Buddha himself spawned Shaolin Kung Fu and Chi Kung, and Jesus performed regular healing miracles...human potential is amazing).   I feel a big problem nowadays is that we all emphasise prosperity at the expense of peace.  Maybe we have it backwards??

 

Wars can come and go, but it is the war within a human being that can rage for a whole lifetime and be unresolved, that causes the most damage.  When human being is unhappy within, he will be willing to exploit and cheat another human.  Conversely, if we all sought what Buddha and Jesus found, even just a fraction, imagine what our combined efforts could create at healing and improving the planet.  One can dream.