Looking for POE

[thelerner]

Einstein spent his last 20 years searching for TOE, the Theory of Everything, why don't we spend some time working on POE, the Practice of Everything, or Practice of Enlightenment.

 

Lets try to do it democratically, come up things that most could agree on. I'd also rather keep it light on philosopny and heavier on practice.

 

I'd also like people to be conscious that a beginners way is different then an intermediates and advanced. I'd like posts to keep that in mind.

 

 

Light on philosopny but some has to enter in. For example; are we in latter heaven a multitude of opportunities for happeness and enlighenment or is a world of illusion and suffering.

 

I like the idea of latter heaven. The root of most suffering is the ego screaming for things to be some Other way, when really its pretty good here. Ofcourse there no denying we're physical beings and that physical pain and deprivation can be a bitch.

 

On the practice side, I'd say the near term goal is a trinity of quiet mind, superior health and contentment.

 

For a beginner what should they do?

 

Peace

 

Michael

[peter falk]

aw, shit, this is going to be challenging. i ws just thinking of this very thing this morning when i was doing my practice working the core channel. doing the sun and moon thing in the left and right sides and then the rising and falling hun and po in opposition thing and expanding the core space getting lost in it, and i thought; this is it. all you need is the core channel. work the hell out of the core channel. its the copulation space for heaven and earth, fire and water, metal and wood, the cultivation space for yuan qi. it kind of expanded and subsumed all the other channels. can it be that a practice regimen of developing the core channel and the cultivated energy be "it?"

[Cameron]

Well, for me, there is something very profound in buddhist philosophy and practice.

 

 

And also something very profound in Taoist philosophy and practice.

 

 

I do feel Empty Mind, Zazen, Sitting and forgetting etc. is IMPORTANT

 

Is that what you should do and nothing else? Maybe.

 

Taoist Alchemy has definite practical benifits. For example, even if you are adept at Empty mind and do it regularly inevitably someone is going to get your emotions stirred up through the course of your life.

 

At some point, unless you have attianed buddhahood, your going to find yourself angry or worried, or scared. at this point using Fusion, inner smile, sounds, etc. is probably going to be more helpful than just Zazen. Then again maybe not, zazen helps you let go of things rather quickly.

 

But Fusion teaches you how to transform energy. Connect with the eenrgy of your organs and develop compassion in your heart. Learning fusion is very practical. I think people who have no interest in spiritual practice, enlightenment should still learn fusion because it teaches you to master your emotions. Most people struggle with their emotions and they get so powerful they can ruin your life.

 

learning Fusion then would be the major thing I would tell someone from the tao side. And Empty Mind.

 

I wont' say names, but a senior Healin Tao teacher said something to me on the phone the other day. he said after 30 years, almost no one has mastered Fusion. From spending time on these boards and with different practiitoners I would have to agree with this. Just getting Fusion down and opneing up the 8 Extra meridians is very powerful.

 

Then if someone wants to get more into Alchemy with Kan and Li or more into zen sitting or whatever fine, but atleast they will have a spiritual center and be able to transcend the emotional body, which is undearneath the spiritual body.

 

in other words, if I had a converstaion with myself 10 years ago, I would say keep up your zen sitting and learn Fusion. After a couple years of that see what appeals to you.

 

Interesting topic.

[RedKooga]

[thelerner]

Lets think about 24 minutes in the morning for a beginner. Kinda symbolic, one minute for every hour of the day.

 

I'd say a few minutes of vigorous shaking, starting with vigorous wrist turns until the whole body shakes and the back of the heels pound lightly and naturally. This is a great practice to relax the body, open the joints and create a good vibrational state

 

Then 15 or 20 minutes of ocean breathing, standing w/ hands 'cupping' the hara and as you breath in, the hands move to the side. Expanding as if you were in waist deep water a wave comes and makes your hand float effortlessly up and to your side. Then as the 'wave' recedes your hand go back to hara w/ the feeling of an ocean wave going infinately inside, til you breath out again and repeat.

 

 

Peace

 

Michael

[RedKooga]

 

Well 20-30 mins a day of anything basic would be a good start.

 

Shaking is ok but there is a reason why most animals like stretching to freshen up and only usually shake on purpose when they want to dry off.

[TimBlack]

I'm new here! Glad to have found you

 

I have become a hodgepodge of accumulated teachings and practices. As things always do, I've come full circle to my Taoist roots with a seasoning of Vippassana practice.

It is good to have a community. Although I am an active member of a Buddhist forum, I've been looking for a forum of this sort. Thanks.

When I am doing what I need to do (I am not currently - no excuse - life has gotten the better of me for now and I'm tryio climb out of the mire) I get up early and meditate. I was active in Tai Chi. I got lazy. Dammit! I think I'm depressed!

I was doing some chi gung. It seems to have all dropped away.

I am hoping to get inspired by you.

 

http://www.tao1776.blogspot.com

[peter falk]

if i may, i'd like to offer some feedback here, and even if i mayn't there's no one oto stop me. looks like this post is generating a lot of interest. but what i see in the discussion so far is not really a POE. what i see is a mention of good basic health practices or a combination of practices. one thing einstein esteemed was simplicity. a POE must be simple and therefore "one" if possible. notice hopw phyusicists seek mathematical simplicity and a single grand unified theory, a single equatin that expalins everything. let's focus on simplicity and finding that one practice. it will be truly challenging.

 

it will also be a good test of our own depth of knowledge and practice because usually the better you understand sometjhing the easier it is to simplify it. we may end up being wrong in the end, but having dealt with the challenge with all our might, there will undoubtedly be some growth.

[Yoda]

Like that Belgian guy in the last Austin Powers movie said... "it's got to be tight."

 

Simple sitting or standing is the answer.

 

The relaxing/allowing yin provides the space to naturally transform any yang going on.

 

But it is only the rare individual who has enough energy aka desire to really make dramatic progress with quiet meditation.

 

Lust is the secret ingredient here. Cultivating that would be different for everyone, but following your bliss would be the basic technique on that end.

 

Methinks.

-Yoda

 

PS, tao1776--good to meet you, I was just thinking of the year 1776 today. I drove by a Lutheran Church outside of Columbia,SC that was established in 1776. Just wondering what life was like back then.

[sean]

I think the desire to find a POE is somewhat the impulse for the creation of religion. Which I don't intend as a criticism because I think we "spiritual" types tend to over-demonize the idea of religion. Probably because many of us have had bad experiences with Western religion. But religion at it's best is just the exoteric manifestation of spiritual beliefs and I think it serves overlooked functions, especially socially. It's the outer cauldron where people can meet and share experiences together in the safety of some defined common ground. As an aside, I've frequently thought one of the reasons the hippie New Age movement fizzled (in many ways) is that it resisted any type of religion-building and eventually became too diffuse. Which maybe was what it needed to do; perhaps not the right time, I dunno.

 

Anyway, obviously the problem comes in if you discover and articulate you and your group's POE and gradually blind yourself to the fact that it is not really the POE, it's just you and your tribe's POE. Also, "The tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao." Any practice named is automatically not the Tao (and also of course it is completely the Tao and is not not the Tao in no way whatsoever. heh). Any practice can be overemphasized and overdone thus leading to imbalance. (right?)

 

Personally I tend to be more cerebral and "high-level" in my approach to mysticism and life in general which basically means I spend more time brainstorming and organizing than actually getting anything done. But really what I'm getting at is the Jing-Chi-Shen trinity itself strikes me as a nice open-ended, agnostic high level POE-generator. Stick a circle around it and it's a decent POE-mandala even. I mention this because for me it seems to boil down to creating a harmonious relationship between Jing-Chi-Shen, both in the literal sense of substance transformation and circulation and also metaphorically in the sense that Jing-Chi-Shen can symbolize different elements and aspects of your mind, your life, etc. that this life is a struggle (a playful struggle *slapping forehead*) to bring into harmony.

 

I guess what I'm driving at is that (obviously) a POE is subjective, personal and most importantly, always in flow. Also, I think perhaps A POE may be poorly represented linguistically and better suited for geometric (or even pictoral) visualization. Ie: the Yin Yang is a good one ... it's pointing at a POE of living in harmony better than a thousand books.

 

All of this said, on a more practical level, and in light of my most recent melodramatic burnout at this point I'd have to say that the inner smile and heart awakening are at the crux of what I currently believe my spiritual POE should contain and focus on.

 

Great topic.

 

Sean

[RedKooga]

Hi Tao1776. Thanks for the poem you left at my blog. It was well liked Sorry to hear things are not so great right now.

 

Peter that's an interesting analogy. I'm not sure how far you could take it though. An equation such as Energy equals Mass times the Speed Of Light squared is so simple students at college level physics use it. You don't need Einstein's understanding of the extremely complex mathematics that got him there to be able to do that.

 

Unfortunately practice is not like physics. We can be given suggested exercises from Einsteins till we're blue in the face but every single one of us needs to do the work of an Einstein to make any use of them. Whether the kind of unequivocal ruthless determination to just get on with it can be cultivated by following your bliss as Yoga suggests, well that's another interesting question. i.e. I don't have a clue!

[sean]

More thoughts.

 

Here are some things that clicked for me last night and today. I think they're relevant since this topic is called the Practice of Everything although I think it may going in the opposite direction of what Peter Falk is suggesting, since it doesn't really attempt to distill essentials from the many, it just organizes the many into a doable approach.

 

I decided to create a Practice Recipe Handbook. This book will be divided into major chapters Jing, Chi, and Shen. Inside these chapters will be complete descriptions of every practice I've ever seen, read or heard about in enough detail to describe how to do it, complete with pictures if necessary. So I can open up to the table of contents in the beginning, flip to "Chi" if that is the current phase of my training routine (more in this in a minute) and quickly decide what kinds of things I want to work on during that training, with complete references to remind me how to do the practice if I've forgotten or never even learned it.

 

Re: training routine phase. In order to ease my mind from perpetually wondering, ruminating, and critcizing potential imbalances in my practice routine (and also of course to prevent being hurt by them), I've decided to implement a three phase training routine. The three phases of my training are (drum roll) Jing, Chi and Shen, which will correspond not only to overtly alchemical/spiritual practices, but also to other areas I want to include, such as my strength, flexibility and general fitness goals. This aspect is almost completely inspired by how Scott Sonnon has structured his latest training journal.. Notice how easily his categories of Strength, Flow and Rest mesh with Jing, Chi and Shen? (To me at least)

 

At first I think it will be pretty straightforward; just a step by step to-do list for each day of my training; keep it really simple and easy to do without having to think to much. But eventually I will refine it more into where Jing-Chi-Shen become open suggestions for what category of practice to pick from that day; either from my mind or my handy dandy Practice Recipe Handbook.

 

Two other important ingredients. Detailed training journal and Weekly Review. Keeping generous notes about my experiences keeps me in touch with my development and let's me see patterns and trends with this work over time, ie: let's try more Shen this week and ratchet down on the Jing training because I'm noticing xyz. Of course the journal is a somewhat of an artificial "middleman" to a truly open and communicative relationship with your bodymind. But for me I think it's an important bridge to developing this relationship more deeply. The Weekly review brings it all together. Every Sunday I'm going to sit down for an hour or two and review my notes and journals and give my self some space to re-evaluate. I'm hoping that my unconscious can appreciate this time-to-judge I am offering, and can loosen up on the perpetual judgements it shares with me at often inappropriate times, ie: while I'm practicing. If my inner family knows it will have a chance every week to analyze my experiences and critique my progress and also have my full attention perhaps it will relax in it's persistent and aggressive attempts to nag me daily with me what is most likely useful information, just poorly timed.

 

So, what do you think? Feels like a personal POE to me? Or at least the seeds of one. The Handbook is a three ring binder bible which can continue to be expanded upon/refined so as to describe any actionable ritual. I have a trusted ancient methodology, Jing-Chi-Shen, for structuring my whole approach to training. A captain's log for recording my experiences. And summit meetings every Sunday to argue over the direction of my evolution.

 

 

Sean.

[peter falk]

oy yeah, this is good stuff! almost as good as downin some cold ones till late at night and talkin shit.

 

maybe redkoogas got something. you know, after years and yaers of practice, we can develop the POE, use it daily and benefit from it, and teach it to others. unfortunately others cant use it (to maximum benefit) because they havent goten the foundation. they havent freed their intent to create the reality they want, etc.

 

however, i do think i am on to soemthing with the core channel. i may have to come back here in a month and eat crow, but i'm gonna play with this for a while and see what comes. fill the core chanel and it will all overflow into the otehrs. teach only core channel to students and let them feel spontaneouly this overflow. hmmmmm....

 

oh well, we'll see what happens.

[Cameron]

Definetly that is a solid thoery Peter .Most of the Empty Mind schools basically do that .You focus on the core channel, lower dan tien, et and the other channels get taken care of naturally.

 

I actually prefer this approach over all and thing it is best for me but sometimes use the alchemy or nie dan methods to get things going.

 

But I think if all you did was empty mind, still standing, etc. that would still get you a long way and should be part of anyones overall cultivation.

 

It's all intertwined..

[peter falk]

i'm going to do a sound one month experiment with this theory. i'll do my best to post regualr, hopefully daily, updates in my training blog so y'all can follow it. started today. the daily practice will follow today's practice closely. any mods will still be core channel practices.

[sunshine]

But Peter. You are more advanced... how should one be able to take your experiences and expand them for beginners?

 

 

 

i'm going to do a sound one month experiment with this theory.  i'll do my best to post regualr, hopefully daily, updates in my training blog so y'all can follow it.  started today.  the daily practice will follow today's practice closely.  any mods will still be core channel practices.

2785[/snapback]

[peter falk]

But Peter. You are more advanced... how should one be able to take your experiences and expand them for beginners?

 

by experimenting.

 

hahaha! it's true, but i understand what youre saying. the point is i'm really not that advanced. i've only completed the lesser kan and li which is the third formula. so i've only done less than half of them. and even i'd done all, it would mean nothing if i didnt have the dirt time and development. meanwhile, a diligent student who only learns the microcosmic orbit and hamers it every day and struggles for advancement could have al the formulas manifest spontaneously. theoretically.

 

worst case scenario is i'm completely fucked up. next to worse case is my theory could be applied to practioners at my level, whatever that is. best case is it works for everyone.

 

you could do it and report to the group and help[ advance the development of western taoist practice.

[sunshine]

>>you could do it and report to the group and help[ advance the development of western taoist practice.<<

 

 

 

 

Aaaaa. I am not the proper candidate, Master Falk. I am too complicated to make things easy...

 

 

Harry

[Trunk]