For the Dumb Liberals, Especially Progressives

[mvingon]

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/dangerous-ideas/201612/the-mind-games-donald-trump

[liminal_luke]

We`ve all got our political opinions -- and our opinions of those who think differently than we do -- but I think a little finesse would help keep these off-topic threads interesting and informative.  

 

(This comment relates to the title of the thread, not the content of the link which I didn`t read.)

[dust]

Not sure I understand your point...

 

The article you link to is claiming that those who dislike Trump -- "dumb liberals" -- are correct: that Trump is a liar and manipulator; that he won because he played on people's fears, not because he's fit for the job.

 

Are you suggesting that the author of the article is a dumb liberal? Because it might have been more useful if you'd attempted to explain why you think he's dumb, if that's the case.

Edited December 27, 2016 by dust

[mvingon]

Is that title in any way congruous to any post I've made?

 

It was jest. ;-)

[dust]

Is that title in any way congruous to any post I've made?

 

No! That was my point. And yours too, apparently.

 

Forgive me, keyboard humour isn't always obvious.

Edited December 28, 2016 by dust

[mvingon]

No, it isn't. No apologies needed. The error is mine, dust, so please accept my apology, instead. I'll try to be more careful, going forward.

[Marblehead]

I'm a conservative so Y'all aren't talking about me.

[rossantony]

Like Trump, I am into mind games. At present I am melting ice cubes on a dinner plate using only the power of my mind. it takes about 5 minutes but with training I hope by summer to have this down to 3. I thank you. 

[MooNiNite]

that he won because he played on people's fears, not because he's fit for the job.

 

This statement always baffles me. Trump said the media is corrupt, so that is playing on people's fears?

 

Meanwhile, the democratic side's entire campaign pushes propaganda aimed at fears around racism and war. They make speeches about woman being abused under Trump, even though Bill Clinton rapes woman. 

 

Trumps entire campaign was economy based: fixing insane trade deficits, lowering taxes to attract business, securing borders, and limiting government spending. He is extremely fit for the job.

 

Hillary Clinton offered zero change, after following a presidency that doubled national debt. Hillary's entire campaign was based around exploiting Trump by pushing fears of racism and Trumps locker room insults towards woman. That is why she didn't win. 

 

It is all incredibly hypocritical, and to actually buy into the statement quoted is insane. 

[dust]

This statement always baffles me. Trump said the media is corrupt, so that is playing on people's fears?

 

I was not offering an opinion on the matter, only pointing out that this is what the article says.

 

Discussing Trump is bad for my health. I only commented in this topic because I was curious what mvingon meant by it all.

[ralis]

This statement always baffles me. Trump said the media is corrupt, so that is playing on people's fears?

 

Meanwhile, the democratic side's entire campaign pushes propaganda aimed at fears around racism and war. They make speeches about woman being abused under Trump, even though Bill Clinton rapes woman.

 

Trumps entire campaign was economy based: fixing insane trade deficits, lowering taxes to attract business, securing borders, and limiting government spending. He is extremely fit for the job.

 

Hillary Clinton offered zero change, after following a presidency that doubled national debt. Hillary's entire campaign was based around exploiting Trump by pushing fears of racism and Trumps locker room insults towards woman. That is why she didn't win.

 

It is all incredibly hypocritical, and to actually buy into the statement quoted is insane.

 

So I guess you are the final arbiter of who is insane or not? Further, I carefully listened to Trump, while noting contradictions and fabrications. Moreover, his conflicts of interest will be carefully analyzed after the inauguration by many.

 

The repetition of certain phrases (three times) by Trump builds the 'big lie'.

Edited December 28, 2016 by ralis

[MooNiNite]

nevermind. 

Edited December 29, 2016 by MooNiNite

[MooNiNite]

So I guess you are the final arbiter of who is insane or not? Further, I carefully listened to Trump, while noting contradictions and fabrications. Moreover, his conflicts of interest will be carefully analyzed after the inauguration by many.

 

The repetition of certain phrases (three times) by Trump builds the 'big lie'.

 

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-10-11/hillary-confirms-saudi-arabia-qatar-are-funding-isis-leaked-email

Edited December 29, 2016 by MooNiNite

[mvingon]

Hillary Clinton did offer zero change. We don't have a "left" any more. We have far right and fascists. Obama and Hillary are far right. *That's why nothing changes, except for the worst.* Look at djt stacking his cabinet with the same wealthy Wall Street elites he railed against hrc, regarding her paid speeches. Do you seriously think, for one instant, that he and his wealthy cabal have your interest at heart? Logic. Show me logic.

 

That is why never Trumpers voted hrc and never Clintoners voted djt and the ONE honest man who should have been the Democratic candidate was not. And Warren sold him out. She will NOT get my vote in 2020.

 

And before you start with all that socialist FUD, consider your fire departments, police departments, public defenders, public prosecutors, crumbling infrastructure, fracked up, leaded up water, social security, post offices, DMV offices, judges, jails *rolls eyes*, county administrators, president, senators, congressmen, schools, VA clinics, public hospitals, libraries, beach and mountain parks, air traffic controllers, and everything else the right underfund. I could list more, but I think you get the point.

 

Think critically. I have not read one iota of praise for djt that has any basis in reality, let alone logic. But for all the Christians whining about hrc being so bad, it's funny you believe the orange führer, "I alone can fix it."

 

2nd Corinthians 11:14

 

Matthew 7:21-23

 

25:35-46

 

Put your money where your mouths are. Take care of your neighbors.

 

Oh, and I do not remember Jesus saying one harsh word about prostitutes, people of color, Jews (Jesus was a Jew. And a refugee, too!), or the lgbtq, or women, or women who were pregnant outside marriage.

 

He did speak harsh words about divorcing for *any* reason, other than adultery, even though it was permitted in Mose's law, but what did he say, about it?

 

And he told the story of the good Samaritan. That would be Philistine. Now known as Palestine. And we all know how *that* has been going, for 5000 years, or more.

 

Then there is Ismael, Half Jew, half Egyptian. The father of Islam. The fruit of Abraham's loins, by his wife's maid, of whom his wife got jealous, after that, and moaned and griped, forcing the maid and a *child* into the desert. And no, we do not know he was mocking Isaac, and even if he was, so what? They were children. And it was Sarai's idea, then she was mean to Hagar, and why? Surely no pregnancy hormones happening, when Sarai or Hagar was pregnant. No, Sarai was jealous, because her slave *had* to sleep with and get pregnant by, and bear Abram's first son. I know what the Bible says, but that was before the Bible. I just looked it up, and the Jewish word "is ambiguous." And even so, he was blessed by yhwh/jhvh.

 

And since it came to mind, the the adamah, means first race, iirc, and was not even the first race on the planet. The "first man" was once one, until he complained, because he could not copulate, like the animals (hint: we are animals too). And guess what else?! The chemicals in "food," water, cause a lot more of babies to be born with male and female genitalia.

 

So all that said, Jew, Christian, pagan, atheist, why do you want to hate anyone? Either God created all, or created none. But especially, why would you hate or judge someone for being born the way they are? Did *you* get to choose being born, alive? The color of your skin? Your parents? The religion in which you were indoctrinated, from birth? Whether or not you had a gay gene (science suggests most are born bi, but develop a preference, and yes, it turns out there is a gay gene, and no, it's not unnatural, live on a farm for a week. Was it Pershing who went to the Arctic, and found what animals do to each other too offensive, to publish?

 

I am not saying rape is okay, but in comparison, a little same-sex sex isn't so bad. Especially since we are not bronze age tribesmen trying to populate a nation, eating or drinking funky things that make bushes live while staying green and taking to deities. Yes, some of us do eat and drink funky things and talk to deities, and I am not judging that, I don't eat as well as I want, and have my own unhealthy habits, but constraints. My point is, we are overpopulated, and there is no harm in spilling seed on the ground and same-sex sex. Context and culture of the time.

 

I know white male supremacists and others think it's still okay to own and subject other people, beat, rape, rob them, based on gender, skin color, creed, but in general, society frowns upon it. And sacrificing or even look like sacrificing children? Ask the woman that drowned her kids in the bathtub to save them what society thought about it.

 

In conclusion, Matthew 23. Put Christ back into "Christian." Pull the beam from your own eyes, before trying to see the mote from your neighbors' eyes. Clean your own houses, and leave your neighbors to worry about their own houses.

 

All the Bible stuff was just for Christians. Jewish people may want to consider the things in the Tanakh. I am sorry if I spelled that wrong.

 

Thank you, if you read the whole wall of text.

 

tl;dr: Stop being ugly. It is not your place to judge these things. If people spent a tenth of their time minding their own business, as they do the business of others, said people would be too busy minding said business, to mind everyone else's. There is a difference between using judgement and judging. Yes, I include myself.

[mvingon]

P.S. Jesus was a liberal, if not an outright communist. No property, shared everything, healed everyone.

[Marblehead]

P.S. Jesus was a liberal, if not an outright communist. No property, shared everything, healed everyone.

 

And pissed off a lot of Jews and got himself killed.  Not a good plan, IMO.

[mvingon]

If there was a historical Jesus, it was probably more political than doing good to others. Society always imprisons and/or kills thinkers light years ahead of their contemporaries, then honors them. Okay, maybe not always, but plenty.

[MooNiNite]

sigh. 

[Brian]

LMAO

[MooNiNite]

Unconditional giving is certainly a great thing to strive for. But, when you give to the government, the people suffer. 

 

"The people starve because those in authority over them devour too many taxes; that is why they starve. The people are difficult to govern because those placed over them are meddlesome; that is why they are difficult to govern. The people despise death because of their excessive labour in seeking the means of life; that is why they despise death."

-Lao Tzu

 

more here: http://www.sacred-texts.com/tao/salt/salt08.htm

[dust]

Jesus was a blasphemer, claiming to be the Christ (chosen one), and claiming indeed that all men are gods. He threatened the Jewish religion and way of life, and many couldn't accept that.

 

 

John 10

³¹ The Jews took up stones again to stone him. ³² Jesus answered them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of these do you stone me?” ³³ The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we stone you but for blasphemy; because you, being a man, make yourself God.” ³⁴ Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, you are gods’? ³⁵ If he called them gods to whom the word of God came (and scripture cannot be broken), ³⁶ do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?

 

Mark 14

Again the high priest asked him, “Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?” ⁶² And Jesus said, “I am; and you will see the Son of man seated at the right hand of Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven.” ⁶³ And the high priest tore his garments, and said, “Why do we still need witnesses? ⁶⁴ You have heard his blasphemy. What is your decision?” And they all condemned him as deserving death. ⁶⁵ And some began to spit on him, and to cover his face, and to strike him, saying to him, “Prophesy!” And the guards received him with blows.

 

 

Neither Pilate nor Herod saw any reason to execute him, but the Jewish leaders, and the crowd outside the court who they rallied, were adamant.

 

One could see it, if one chose, in parallel with Trump: a great leader doing great work and uniting people behind him to try and save his people from a foreign threat, those who oppose him tricked by evil politicians who fear a change to their way of life.

 

Equally, one could see it, if one chose, in parallel with Trump: a liar and trickster with a multitude of idiots uniting behind him because he claims to be the 'chosen one', but who is actually just some guy from round the way who's good at bullshitting.

 

I choose to see it a third way: Jesus was a nice guy -- his mother pretended to be a virgin and for some reason people believed her, and he grew up thinking he was the son of God, and he did his best to live up to it all, and his legacy has its good and bad sides. And Trump is nothing like Jesus, and he's actually been chosen leader by his own people rather than crucified, though it remains to be seen whether he'll be crucified in the future when he makes a dog's dinner of it all.

Edited December 29, 2016 by dust

[MooNiNite]

Calling Trump fascist is interesting.

 

He believes in the traditional America. One based on a pure understanding the constitution, with the rights to bear arms and freedom from government. One of his core tenants is "for each new piece of legislation, two are removed." (http://www.forbes.com/sites/waynecrews/2016/11/22/donald-trump-promises-to-eliminate-two-regulations-for-every-one-enacted/#3e69d5862b87)

 

He is dismantling a meddlesome and intruding government. (https://www.donaldjtrump.com/policies/regulations/)

 

So his fascism is actually anti-government. 

 

And if you are anti-government, then it is fascism representing freedom. 

[ralis]

Calling Trump fascist is interesting.

 

He believes in the traditional America. One based on a pure understanding the constitution, with the rights to bear arms and freedom from government. One of his core tenants is "for each new piece of legislation, two are removed." (http://www.forbes.com/sites/waynecrews/2016/11/22/donald-trump-promises-to-eliminate-two-regulations-for-every-one-enacted/#3e69d5862b87)

 

He is dismantling a meddlesome and intruding government. (https://www.donaldjtrump.com/policies/regulations/)

 

So his fascism is actually anti-government.

 

And if you are anti-government, then it is fascism representing freedom.

 

It seems you have no understanding as to how fascism/authoritarianism is defined or expressed. I extensively wrote on this matter on this forum if you care to read the discussions. Further, Trump fits this personality trait which is characterized by rigid character amoring in his body language and speech. Moreover, you characterize him as a sort of dictator that wields absolute power to dismantle whatever he chooses. Only Congress has that power. Edited December 29, 2016 by ralis

[MooNiNite]

It seems you have no understanding as to how fascism/authoritarianism is defined or expressed. I extensively wrote on this matter on this forum if you care to read the discussions. Further, Trump fits this personality trait which is characterized by rigid character amoring in his body language and speech. Moreover, you characterize him as a sort of dictator that wields absolute power to dismantle whatever he chooses. Only Congress has that power.

 

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=fascism

[MooNiNite]

The president certainly has influence.

 

https://www.mintpressnews.com/obama-quietly-approves-countering-disinformation-and-propaganda-act/223504/