For the Dumb Liberals, Especially Progressives

[ralis]

BTW, I have the clear impression that several of you here have no or very little understanding as to what authoritarian narcissistic personality disorder is. 

[dawei]

I was referring in recent posts to his childish stab at diplomacy. Even the Chinese are troubled by this. If you think for one minute that Trump's Tweets regarding international affairs are in some way benign, then you are absolutely wrong. The internet in this regard is not child's play.

 

The chinese are childish in international politics... should bring a smirk... what they are really good at, they should continue to do...  investing in global projects and becoming a global presence.   Wait till that dragon wakes up...

[dawei]

There are well qualified medical professionals that have written and spoken about Trump's authoritarian narcissistic personality disorder. I have posted references to this effect and asking one to move on is only banalizing Trump's flaws.

 

Move on and see what can be accomplished? The first thing is that millions will be without health insurance with no replacement, more pollution, tax cuts for the rich, potentially another war in the middle east with ISIS. Shall I continue?

 

Your predicting.  just like the news pundits...  Everything you mention is not a presence reality... more like a fear...  I don't want to do too much crystal ball stuff but when I do, I say it... otherwise, I stick to what is going on now.   Actual action by companies.    

[ralis]

I've read a psychologist's text lately but discarded it because the writer was clearly politically biased, so I couldn't trust it to be backed by professional expertise.

 

It's also not about banalizing his flaws, but about working with what you got or you'll saw off the branch you're sitting on. It's about maturity and personal responsibility. The things many people tend to criticize about Trump who aren't capable of it themselves.

 

What is your fact basis for claiming "millions will be without health insurance with no replacement"? AFAIK all we have for now are Trump's statements of intent to the contrary in public interviews.

 

Paul Ryan has stated that the ACA will be dismantled and replaced. Pence stated today that by executive order Trump will begin dismantling the ACA. Republicans have stated publicly that this will be their first order of business. Further, there are persons posting here that think Trump's behavior is normal as well as Fox News and other media posting such.

 

This is my last post on this. Read Hannah Arendt on 'the banality of evil' and her book 'The Rise of Totalitarianism.' Given that most here have made up their minds that Trump is just what the world needs, and all will be bliss, I have better use of my time than to waste it on persons that just don't get it.

[dawei]

BTW, I have the clear impression that several of you here have no or very little understanding as to what authoritarian narcissistic personality disorder is. 

 

And if he was gay then we should understand that personality disorder in some way too ?

 

Why not just drop all the personality stuff and stick to reality...   what actually happens and occurs.   Comment on current events and not on imaginary ones.  that's what I prefer to do... but this area is open to imaginary events nonetheless. 

[Owledge]

Paul Ryan has stated that the ACA will be dismantled and replaced. Pence stated today that by executive order Trump will begin dismantling the ACA. Republicans have stated publicly that this will be their first order of business. Further, there are persons posting here that think Trump's behavior is normal as well as Fox News and other media posting such.

 

This is my last post on this. Read Hannah Arendt on 'the banality of evil' and her book 'The Rise of Totalitarianism.' Given that most here have made up their minds that Trump is just what the world needs, and all will be bliss, I have better use of my time than to waste it on persons that just don't get it.

This indeed goes nowhere and apparently you understand how you make sure of that. You directly contradict yourself and the statements made by first claiming "without replacement" and then quoting "replaced". If you had informed yourself without cherrypicking, you'd know Trump said (as I mentioned) that it will of course be a transition and not tear-down-then-chaos-then-eventually-something-new.

 

It is also distracting when you keep referring to "persons posting here" while responding to me. How about focusing on the content of what you are responding to?

Based on your second paragraph though it looks more like you are simply talking in imagined extremes and absolutes about people; the usual strawmanning, which would mean you are emotionally compromised.

Such indicates and leads to further lack of discipline...

[ralis]

And if he was gay then we should understand that personality disorder in some way too ?

 

Why not just drop all the personality stuff and stick to reality...   what actually happens and occurs.   Comment on current events and not on imaginary ones.  that's what I prefer to do... but this area is open to imaginary events nonetheless.

 

The gay remark is way out of line. Being gay is a disorder? Inflammatory remark on your part.

[liminal_luke]

And if he was gay then we should understand that personality disorder in some way too ?

 

 

 Just so you know, the American Psychiatric Association stopped considering homosexuality any kind of disorder way back in 1974 when they left it out of the latest edition of the DSM, the widely accepted diagnostic bible for what is or isn`t a mental illness. Feel free to disagree, but mainstream medicine is no longer slapping pathological labels on people simply for being gay.

 

tweet, tweet...

 

LL 

[Owledge]

the American Psychiatric Association

the DSM, the widely accepted diagnostic bible for what is or isn`t a mental illness

mainstream medicine

Is dawei maybe from a country where it's not mainstream doctrine?

[dawei]

The gay remark is way out of line. Being gay is a disorder? Inflammatory remark on your part.

 

maybe I don't know your definition of disorder...   it seems that you call someone having a disorder when others actually understand the behavior... so it seems my examples doesn't resonate as a past discovery that others have now quoted.  

 

I lean towards understanding of behavior instead of using labels disorder and normal...  labels, even from the past, seem to haunt folks to quickly quote from liable sources...   why not just understand each other instead of any labels...

 

How about I start another topic based on current events and then this one can remain open to talk about news pundit predictions of the future and disorders...    

[dawei]

 Just so you know, the American Psychiatric Association stopped considering homosexuality any kind of disorder way back in 1974 when they left it out of the latest edition of the DSM, the widely accepted diagnostic bible for what is or isn`t a mental illness. Feel free to disagree, but mainstream medicine is no longer slapping pathological labels on people simply for being gay.

 

tweet, tweet...

 

LL 

 

And yet folks want to use labels that may still be pathological on some level... because they are not comfortable with another person... or president to be ?

 

I think my example went way over folks heads... sorry for that

[liminal_luke]

And yet folks want to use labels that may still be pathological on some level... because they are not comfortable with another person... or president to be ?

 

 

Well, there certainly is a stigma to mental illness.  And saying that Trump has one -- narcissistic personality disorder -- is a pretty handy way of discrediting him.  Not so different perhaps from saying that Hillary was unfit for office because of her alledged health conditions.  

 

It`s really neither here nor there about the gay issue, I just wanted to get clear on what is and is not considered an illness in the world of western medicine.  Narcissistic personality disorder is still very much a thing.  Ditto for parkinson`s, still a thing. Being gay?  Not so much.  

Edited January 5, 2017 by liminal_luke

[ralis]

And yet folks want to use labels that may still be pathological on some level... because they are not comfortable with another person... or president to be ?

 

I think my example went way over folks heads... sorry for that

Narcissistic personality disorder is well documented in the scientific literature. A sense of grandiosity, lack of empathy for others and so forth. Perhaps those are two admirable qualities you see in Trump?

 

Add authoritarianism on top of that. Need I define that also?

[ralis]

Here is one for starters. There are myriad articles.

 

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/06/the-mind-of-donald-trump/480771/

[dawei]

Narcissistic personality disorder is well documented in the scientific literature. A sense of grandiosity, lack of empathy for others and so forth. Perhaps those are two admirable qualities you see in Trump?

 

Add authoritarianism on top of that. Need I define that also?

 

and in 10 or 20 years when they change that label... what can we say ?

 

Ignore labels.. understand people...      seems Laozi said that a long time ago... 

 

@LL...   get the point?   Drop labels and quoting medical texts.... know thyself.... is to know others. 

 

How often did a label hurt others vs knowing them help others?   

[Owledge]

Interestingly, Wikipedia states the definition of "disorder" as "a functional abnormality or disturbance". Homosexuality doesn't necessarily cause disturbance, but the first part of the definition is still pretty solid from certain points of view, and sadly the issue went from being shunned right to being politically protected and declared positive or even worthy of pride, thus PC culture skipping a sincere and objective examination and free exchange of ideas that could bring further enlightenment and that of course also fueling the manifestation of the other side of the divide.

Yet at the same time someone practicing self-love to a degree that makes others uncomfortable is considered a disorder, while it could very well be that this diagnosis is fueled by a inferiority complex in those making the diagnoses. (The labeling also makes it easy to attribute blame on the subject instead of also considering the factors that led to it.) The relativity of such things and the problematic variability of the term "normal" should always put things into perspective and calm the mind, allowing it to come to authentic insights. (There are very interesting studies about the psychopathic underpinnings of psychiatry for example.)

Edited January 5, 2017 by Owledge

[ralis]

Interestingly, Wikipedia states the definition of "disorder" as "a functional abnormality or disturbance". Homosexuality doesn't necessarily cause disturbance, but the first part of the definition is still pretty solid from certain points of view, and sadly the issue went from being shunned right to being politically protected and declared positive or even worthy of pride, thus PC culture skipping a sincere and objective examination and free exchange of ideas that could bring further enlightenment and that of course also fueling the manifestation of the other side of the divide.

Yet at the same time someone practicing self-love to a degree that makes others uncomfortable is considered a disorder, while it could very well be that this diagnosis is fueled by a inferiority complex in those making the diagnoses. (The labeling also makes it easy to attribute blame on the subject instead of also considering the factors that led to it.) The relativity of such things and the problematic variability of the term "normal" should always put things into perspective and calm the mind, allowing it to come to authentic insights. (There are very interesting studies about the psychopathic underpinnings of psychiatry for example.)

Are you stating that being gay is a functional abnormality?

[Kar3n]

Narcissistic personality disorder is well documented in the scientific literature. A sense of grandiosity, lack of empathy for others and so forth. Perhaps those are two admirable qualities you see in Trump?

 

Add authoritarianism on top of that. Need I define that also?

 

Trump or ralis?

ralis or Trump?

 

I am still trying to figure out which one of you has the bigger ego...

 

Your label of Trump's mental health without a proper, official diagnosis is no more true or rational than all of the doctors' that said HRC has Parkinson's.

 

When Trump does something to impede your lifestyle or place you in danger while in office then you can wag your finger, until then it is all speculation and repeating the talking heads on the boob tube.

 

A wait and see approach is much healthier than worrying oneself before it is time to worry. Take the next 15 days and relax, you've the next 4 years to stay in a tizzy.

[Owledge]

Are you stating that being gay is a functional abnormality?

From an evolutionary view about perpetuation of a species, or just from the definition of the term, yes, of course.

And I've examined a couple of cases that give interesting clues about what evolutionary, psychologically and possibly spiritually inclined programs can be the cause of at least some of it.

There are actually more mainstream studies than one would find for a taboo topic, so the situation is not really appalling. But it's a bit like research is on hold because of several reasons, one being PC, another being that since there are no harmful effects on society there's not much funding since there's no perceived need to attain that knowledge. (And those two reasons tie into each other.)

 

 

@Kar3n

Abstract fears drive actions that give reason for substantial fear of those who act on them.

Abstract fear is a deliberate choice made to manifest a reality of one's choosing.

Edited January 5, 2017 by Owledge

[Brian]

There are well qualified medical professionals that have written and spoken about Trump's authoritarian narcissistic personality disorder. I have posted references to this effect and asking one to move on is only banalizing Trump's flaws.

 

Move on and see what can be accomplished? The first thing is that millions will be without health insurance with no replacement, more pollution, tax cuts for the rich, potentially another war in the middle east with ISIS. Shall I continue?

There was a whole slew of qualified medical professionals who wrote and spoke about Obama and about both Clintons but I don't seem to remember you pissing and moaning about the need to stop them from getting their hands on the levers of power. In fact, the whole MoveOn.org thing arose from "Progressives" insisting that character doesn't matter and that narcissists in the White House lying to the public and lying under oath simply weren't worth talking about.

 

You didn't seem to mind a couple dozen major scandals and oodles of examples of questionable ethics under the current President but the world is coming to an end with the next lousy leader? One might almost think you aren't the steadfast paragon of political impartiality you vociferously portray yourself to be! (If we didn't remember your little post-election meltdown, that is...)

[ralis]

From an evolutionary view about perpetuation of a species, or just from the definition of the term, yes, of course.

And I've examined a couple of cases that give interesting clues about what evolutionary, psychologically and possibly spiritually inclined programs can be the cause of at least some of it.

There are actually more mainstream studies than one would find for a taboo topic, so the situation is not really appalling. But it's a bit like research is on hold because of several reasons, one being PC, another being that since there are no harmful effects on society there's not much funding since there's no perceived need to attain that knowledge. (And those two reasons tie into each other.)

 

 

@Kar3n

Abstract fears drive actions that give reason for substantial fear of those who act on them.

Abstract fear is a deliberate choice made to manifest a reality of one's choosing.

Evolutionary theory does not make judgements regarding sexuality. In fact there are primate species that are homosexual and bisexual. Moreover, you must be referring to religious fundamentalist teachings that believe the universe is 6000 years old and sex was designed for procreation rather than pleasure.

[liminal_luke]

@LL...   get the point?   Drop labels and quoting medical texts.... know thyself.... is to know others. 

 

How often did a label hurt others vs knowing them help others?   

 

Errrr!  It`s very hard to participate in this thread, and other`s like it, without getting drawn into a whirlpool of argumentative muck.  I don`t mean to turn this thread into a debate about sexuality as we`ve certainly had enough of that.  And I`m hardly one to insist that people fit into neat categories, diagnostic or otherwise.  Not at all.

 

But I am gay, and when people make comments that put people like me in a bad light, I like to at least say something.  You mentioned being gay as a disorder.  I pointed out that technically, according to the system of medicine common in my part of the world, it isn`t one.  That was my only point.  

[Owledge]

Evolutionary theory does not make judgements regarding sexuality. In fact there are primate species that are homosexual and bisexual. Moreover, you must be referring to religious fundamentalist teachings that believe the universe is 6000 years old and sex was designed for procreation rather than pleasure.

That is so messed up and incoherent that I can't even respond to it. At least not without writing an essay about semantics, which is not worth it, since you have already shown a deliberate lack of understanding.

[ralis]

That is so messed up and incoherent that I can't even respond to it. At least not without writing an essay about semantics, which is not worth it, since you have already shown a deliberate lack of understanding.

That is a personal attack. I understand this subject well and you made remarks that have no basis regarding evolution and chose to post disparaging remarks against gay persons. I am typing on my phone in the middle of the Mojave desert and what I type is minimal!

 

Since English is not your primary language there may be much lost in translation.

 

As usual in his own sharply biased way, Brian approves of any remarks directed against me.

Edited January 5, 2017 by ralis

[Aetherous]

Errrr!  It`s very hard to participate in this thread, and other`s like it, without getting drawn into a whirlpool of argumentative muck.  I don`t mean to turn this thread into a debate about sexuality as we`ve certainly had enough of that.  And I`m hardly one to insist that people fit into neat categories, diagnostic or otherwise.  Not at all.

 

But I am gay, and when people make comments that put people like me in a bad light, I like to at least say something.  You mentioned being gay as a disorder.  I pointed out that technically, according to the system of medicine common in my part of the world, it isn`t one.  That was my only point.  

 

I too am not a fan of viewing people as having this or that disorder (whether medical or simply a social stigma).

 

It didn't appear to me that's what dawei was doing, from briefly looking at everything here...but just wanted to offer a voice of support. Daobums should not be made to feel lesser for being who they are naturally.