Question for Wu Li Pai'ists and other people too.

[SeekerOfHealing]

Can someone explain how Wu Liu Pai and other (your tradition) view yang shen and immortality ? How would you express notion of yang shen, what is it, what it's nature etc.

[awaken]

Good questions

[LaoZiDao]

You asked similar questions already:

 

http://forum.daode.ru/f1461/yangshen-nature-37713/#Content

[awaken]

You asked similar questions already:

http://forum.daode.ru/f1461/yangshen-nature-37713/#Content

But no answers

 

Actually, there are a lot of answers in many classics.

 

But people don't believe that is the answer.

 

Because it is too impossible for them to believe it

 

If you can reach the emptiness,

 

You will get the real answers

 

All you heard from others lead a lot of doubts

 

 

So why don't you give up all the methods,

 

And follow the rules of wu Wei

 

Then you will have a chance to know the answer

 

If you know the answer,

 

You won't want to tell people like you now

 

You will know that if you tell them the truth

 

They won't get the truth

 

They only get more questions

 

Endless questions

Edited January 1, 2017 by awaken

[Taoist Texts]

 But people don't believe that is the answer.

 

Because it is too impossible for them to believe it 

[Wells]

.

Edited March 2, 2017 by Wells

[SeekerOfHealing]

Wu Liu Pai attacks itself eating it's own tail.

[awaken]

I didn't see anyone attack wu Liu pai.

 

I saw many wu Liu practicers attacked others.

 

Wu Liu misunderstand the golden dan.

 

They think 黍米 is golden dan.

 

But 黍米 is 黍米, not golden dan.

 

It is a very clear truth.

 

If you reach there.

 

Dan dao is not a religion.

 

If you treat wu Liu as a religion, you are not qualify to talk in the dao forum.

 

You believe in blind, not in the fact.

 

 

These days , I emailed a lot with the daoist author in China, 高帥 Gau Shuai.

 

If you can read Chinese, you can googled his articles.

 

You will learn a lot from his articles.

Edited January 1, 2017 by awaken

[Taoist Texts]

Exactly. This pretty much sums up why so many people in this forum attack Mo Pai and Wu Liu Pai!

You know Wells what you should do? You should ask both of them what they think about each other. )

[damdao]

I didn't see anyone attack wu Liu pai.

 

(...)

 

Wu Liu misunderstand the golden dan.

 

(...)

 

 

Seeing that you repeat this again and again and again and then you write "their truuuuuuuue teacher" "makers of money" "fake 傳承" I wonder why you have no register at all about what you say.

Perhaps you are candid or...

[damdao]

(...)

 

 

These days , I emailed a lot with the daoist author in China, 高帥 Gau Shuai.

 

If you can read Chinese, you can googled his articles.

 

You will learn a lot from his articles.

 

And you try to use some general assertion as a proof against Wuliupai:

 

 

http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/42915-how-do-we-treat-the-influence-of-wu-liu-pai-to-modern-society/?p=728517

[Cheshire Cat]

[...]

 

 

So why don't you give up all the methods,

 

And follow the rules of wu Wei

 

[...]

 

Because you teach a method.

Your method isn't Wu-Wei.

To practice your method is harmful to me.

[thelerner]

So, Wu Liu Pai is mentioned and it immediately goes into the same silly circular arguments that happen in all the other threads.  Was it planned that way?   Or are the writers here stuck in an infantile time loop? 

 

Either stick to the question in the OP.  Or create PPD's all about insulting each other in two languages and stay there   Here's a secret, the great majority of people don't know anything about Wu Liu Pai, other then it tends to be a magnet for immaturity.  

 

I'd suggest you break the loop and stay on subject.   It'd be nice if both parties can show maturity in these threads.  Stay on the subject, please. 

[damdao]

I didn't see anyone attack wu Liu pai.

 

I saw many wu Liu practicers attacked others.

 

Wu Liu misunderstand the golden dan.

 

They think 黍米 is golden dan.

 

But 黍米 is 黍米, not golden dan.

 

It is a very clear truth.

 

If you reach there.

 

Dan dao is not a religion.

 

If you treat wu Liu as a religion, you are not qualify to talk in the dao forum.

 

You believe in blind, not in the fact.

 

 

These days , I emailed a lot with the daoist author in China, 高帥 Gau Shuai.

 

If you can read Chinese, you can googled his articles.

 

You will learn a lot from his articles.

 

 

So, Wu Liu Pai is mentioned and it immediately goes into the same silly circular arguments that happen in all the other threads.  Was it planned that way?   Or are the writers here stuck in an infantile time loop? 

(...)

 

Why are you miscontructing what happened?

Awaken's post is far from being a "mention".

[Taoist Texts]

Can someone explain how Wu Liu Pai and other (your tradition) view yang shen and immortality ? How would you express notion of yang shen, what is it, what it's nature etc.

 

Wu Shouyang 伍守陽 (1552-1641), the influential patriarch of the Dao-Buddhist (more the former than the latter in Wu’s day) Wu-Liu school (Wu Liu pa i派伍柳), describes the perilous apotheosis in his 1638 Explication for Laymen of the Direct Discourse of the Upright Principles of Celestial Transcendents (Tianxian zhengli zhilun qianshuo天仙正理直論淺說):

 

“To nurture the Spirit to come out of the husk is a moment of utmost importance, a moment of grave danger. In the initial stage of inducing it, withdraw it back as soon as it comes out. It is not appropriate to let it stay out for long, nor let it see or hear the distant boundaries. Having regulated it for a long time, its outings may be gradually prolonged before drawing it back. It may then be allowed to view and hear the distant boundaries before you retract it. Without such training and cultivation, the Spirit may, upon being let out all of a sudden, gallop outward only to stray and lose its own nature, so all the initial outings must be carefully regulated.

 

Follow the master’s method in inducing the Spirit to come out. From the Upper Field [of elixir], let out the Thought, holding it outside the body. Then retract the Thought from outside the body into the Upper Cinnabar Field. One outing followed by one retraction. Step by step, it becomes increasingly proficient. Nurse it tenderly so that it becomes full and robust. This is called nourishing.

 

In three years, the Spirit attains perfection and is capable of myriad changes. It reaches the Earth and the Heaven. It crosses oceans and moves mountains. It alleviates drought and eradicates the pernicious. All these are achieved at will by the Spirit’s single exertion of its divine power for change and transformation. Then it is called a divine transcendent.”

 

The pure yang spirit does not burst forth in a brilliant moment of enlightenment; the birth itself requires the same meticulous control required by the adept to reach this advanced stage. The fruit of this labor is that one becomes an actor on a cosmic scale, a godlike being able to relieve suffering in the mundane world.

 

/Integrating Inner Alchemy into Late Ming Cultural History A Contextualization and Annotated Translation of Principles of the Innate Disposition and the Lifespan (Xingming guizhi 性命圭旨) (1615) by Daniel Burton-Rose/

Edited January 2, 2017 by Taoist Texts

[sillybearhappyhoneyeater]

I really don't like these particular discussions because they are partisan, but having read the better part of the Wu Liu Zong material, and also having practised other schools of Nei Dan, I want to comment based on my own comparison here.

 

Wu Liu Pai follows a synthesis of earlier methods, most notably the Southern and Northern school.  this is very easy to verify just by looking at their early curriculum up to later curriculum.   They have also successfully adopted other types of theory into the school in order to fill in some of the gaps of other schools.   The idea that Wu Liu Pai doesn't practice Wu Wei is silly and without merit.  

The first chapter of Wu Zhen Ren Dan Dao Jiu Pian:

 

仙佛合宗語錄

　

伍真人丹道九篇

　

最初還虛 第一

Absolute beginning, changing to emptiness:

 

太和問曰：《直論》中言：煉己先務，有當禁止杜絕之端。又言：不煉己，有難成玄功之弊。可謂詳言煉己之要矣！昨又蒙老師言：最初煉己，不過初入其門，仍要還虛，方入閫奧。敢請還虛之理，何謂也？

Tai He asks: Zhi lun's middle talk says: "the early work of refining Ji* should first adopt the method of absolutely stopping everything."  and "not refining Ji will endure the hard suffering and will not be able to achieve the mystery pearl.   This is the real discussion of the secret of refining Ji!  Zuo You Meng Lao Shi said:  The most basic of refining Ji, before even beginning to enter the door, is the secret of changing to emptiness.  to enter into this calm mystery.  May I ask, how to change to emptiness.     

伍子曰：儒 家有執中之心法，仙家有還虛之修持，皆一致也！蓋中即虛空之性體，執中即還虛之功用也。惟仙佛種子，始能還虛盡性，以純於精一之至詣。

Wu Zi answers:  Confucianism has the method of holding the centre, the immortality school has changing to emptiness and cultivating without stop.  They arrive at one place!  The centre of the body and consciousness should be empty and open.  Holding the centre is the method of use for changing to emptiness.  Only the immortal Buddhist seed can be opened by the exhaustion of changing consciousness into emptiness.   This is  the way to make the Jing will arrive at one fullness.

　*according to (San Ming Tong Hui), Ji is the "Yuan QI" of the heavens and the real Earth.  Ji is yin aspect of the earth element.  The yin aspect of the earth element is "Zhen Yi," or real intention.  So "refining Ji" is refining the real intention.

 

 

I'm going to stop the translation there and make some comments.  firstly, sorry for my poor translation of the first couple sentences, I don't have time to think about how to make it into a perfectly cogent idea right now (packing to leave for Beijing tomorrow), but I think you can get the idea.  Secondly, Wu Zhen Pian says "the original purpose is that wu and ji are the beautiful matchmaker,"  and according to San Ming Tong Hui, Wu and Ji are the yin and yang of the earth element.  Now, understanding this and understanding that Ji is the "real earth," we know that "Zhen yi" comes from refining Ji, so this should already tell you a lot about how Wu Liu zong considered Wu Wei in their practice.

Now, if we compare this to Huang Yuanji, it is the same meaning, so when awaken posted the Huang yuanji first chapter, both that and this part of the Wu Liu curriculum are talking about the same thing.  The difference is that Huang Yuanji uses Confucian ideas like Wuji to talk about achieving the original seed, whereas Wu Liu Zong mostly use Daoist and Buddhist language, but otherwise, there really is no practical difference between these two ideas.

 

The more important thing, and the thing which stupid face and her stupid parade of adoring idiots haven't mentioned (probably because they are amateurs) is that once the mystery gate has opened, you have to do something with the resulting energy that happens in the body.   If we are looking at it from the perspective of Nan Zong, then once the qi moves, at the beginner level, we would just place it back in the lower dantian and focus on wu wei again (same with Lu Dongbin's method), but if we look at later methods like Huang Yuanji's style, we will find that he already talks about He Che in the second chapter and gives advice about how to harmonize He Che with the middle dan tian, so even though all schools use wu wei to enter the mystery gate, after the energy has moved, you have to do something with it or it will just dissipate and leave your body (IE: it will be wasted).   It doesn't matter what school of neidan you practice, every one of them will cultivate all three dantian and every meridian and energy pathway of the body.

the central difference between Wu Liu Pai and other schools in this regard is that Wu Liu Pai has a much more exact method of building He Che, the heavenly foetus and all the way to cultivating two bodies, making the spirit leave the body and much more.   Some schools treat this practice as implicit while other schools have more precise methods.  Wu Liu zong and Qian Feng Pai which followed it in Beijing and Tianjin have more conspicuous and exact methods, but I don't think anyone would accuse Xing Ming Gui Zhi of being external, so why would we accuse the Wu liu Zong curriculum.

 as with all things in life, people get jealous and when they get jealous they get stupid.   It is very clear that Awaken is not providing anything positive to the conversation here, and besides that, what she needs to do is attend an English class, not talk in gibberish about her august and ascended methods of bullshitting.

If she would like to have a debate about practice, she should cite directly from documents, not just skirt the issue by making thinly veiled insults that come from a place of utter ignorance and greed for fame.

People like this are a total shame to Dao De and by now she's been causing trouble here already for more than a month.  I'm not enjoying coming to this forum anymore because every second thread is her or her minions talking trash about good things.   Have the mods given any thought to this disruption and how it might be dealt with?

[SeekerOfHealing]

I appreciate all the comments but they are not saying anything particular related to the question of the nature of yang shen, if it's really permanent etc.

[awaken]

道之形象，真一難圖。變而分布，各自獨居。類如雞子，白黑相符，縱橫一寸，以為始初。四肢五臟，筋骨乃俱。彌歷十月，脫出其胞。骨弱可卷，肉滑若飴

 

 

子藏母胞。真人至妙，若有若無。髣髴太淵，乍沈乍浮。退而分布，各守境隅。采之類白，造之則朱。鍊為表衛，白裏真居。方圓徑寸，混而相拘。先天地生，巍巍尊高。旁有垣闕，狀似蓬壺。環匝關閉，四通踟躕。守禦密固，遏絕奸邪。曲閣相連，以戒不虞。可以無思，難以愁勞。神氣滿室，莫之能留。守之者昌，失之者亡。動靜休息，常與人俱。

 

Please find the translation by yourself.

[Arkady Shadursky]

Hello everyone!   

 

Happy new Year 2017! The Dao De Center wishes all the best to every forum member! Have a good luck, health love and more!

 

====

 

I'd like to beg everyone pardon again for awaken and for all the trash being said on this forum about WuLiupai School.

We all (and probably you) can guess why the name of School I belong to is a red flag to her and "Taoist Texts". And why she is so disrespectful to paste more and more random Chinese text here without translations...

 

But anyway its a shame for person claiming to be a Chinese to make the same mistakes again and again.

 

We see many people can notice awaken's logic mistakes and point us to them. And much of them have no relation to WuLiupai school at all. That is appreciated, thank you guys!

 

=======

 

There are some pending questions from effilang, SeakingForHealing and other fellow members. We see it and we are going to give the answers in separate topics. We hope this way it will be possible to avoid that spam and trash sometimes being generated without any limits.

---

Best Regards,

Arkady

[SeekerOfHealing]

Yes, if you can explain nature of yang shen (it's not necessary to be upon texts or anything like that, just straight wisdom)

[awaken]

Yes, you should show your wisdom and give up attacking someone personal.

 

We only see your violence and desire to control everything.

 

We can't see your wisdom.

 

If you think cultivation is something logical, how can you except Wu Liu pai has any wisdom?

 

Cultivation is something based on experience, not by thinking or guessing.

 

You "think and guess" cultivation but not practice it.

 

How can you except anyone believe you?

[Walker]

二十三、丹经书籍众多，南五祖俱有书所言皆妙而切当，刘一明，黄元吉等人的书直言淋漓，不妨多读。伍柳仙踪其实精到，无眼力者看不明白，其余丹家都是大力真做之人，不善于下功夫的无法体悟其中妙趣。

 

______________

 

@Arkady: Thanks for your cordial response... I'm sure that your replies will be of interest to plenty of people here. The ones who may pay the most attention might be the least vocal, however.

Edited January 3, 2017 by Walker

[awaken]

有眼力的實修者方知伍柳之荒謬

[Taoist Texts]

 

 I don't think anyone would accuse Xing Ming Gui Zhi of being external

 

 

Xu Songyao 徐頌堯  (hao Haiyin 海印子1893?-c. 1966-76) includes a bitter denunciation of the text titled “On the 12 Great Mistakes of Xingming guizhi” (Lun Xingming guizhi shi’er dacuo”論《性命圭旨》十二大錯) ...

 

Xu was a student of the renowned Wang Qihu 汪启濩 (zi Dongting東亭, hao Tizhen shanren 體真山人), author of, among numerous other works, Essential Principles of Innate Disposition and the Lifespan (Xingming yaozhi 性命要旨). Wang and Xu were of the Western Branch of Inner Alchemy, ...

 

In his undated “Great Mistakes” Xu promised dire consequences for those who practiced the techniques described in Principles.

 

If the student concentrated their attention on a point just above the bridge of the nose in order to penetrate a certain physio-spiritual point, as Principles instructed, “you’ll develop a brain leakage [a severe form of nasal congestion] and other problems,” (de naolou dengzheng 得腦漏等症) Xu promised, continuing: “Once Master Wang had a female disciple who, before [she studied under him], practiced this and became crazy, then stupid.”

 

 As to Principles’ instruction to “constantly keep this mind recessed in the Spinal Handle cavity so that you can draw the upright energy of heaven and earth inside you,” Xu admonishes, “If you practice this, you will suffer acutely from diseases related to unremitting seminal emission.”

 

If one “congeals the spirit” (ningshen 凝神) at the place that Principles recommends—the Yellow Court, identified at approximately the same place Western medicine calls the solar plexus—“it will cause a lump to develop.”

 

/Integrating Inner Alchemy into Late Ming Cultural History A Contextualization and Annotated Translation of Principles of the Innate Disposition and the Lifespan (Xingming guizhi 性命圭旨) (1615) by Daniel Burton-Rose/

[SeekerOfHealing]

Wow, thank you taoist texts is super important information here.