Kunlun Visualization

[Yue]

I am having trouble with the opening visualization. I just can't seem to make the image real enough. Max says in the book that it's a requirement, so I'm a little hesitant to do kunlun until I can really get the image to feel real. Do any of you have any tips?

[joeblast]

Its all what you make it - do it earnestly and you should gain proficiency with practice

[Yue]

True, but didn't Max mention something about it being a method to prevent blockages if you do your practice improperly or something like that? That's why I don't want to screw it up.

[Wun Yuen Gong]

Yue,

 

I like your attitude bro, so far your the only one to of brought up this apart from me which people of Kunlun dont like to answer. But your correct if you cant visualise the basic med why start the level posture? Means your mind isnt cultivated enough to even consider beginning the practices. For instance most internal systems start with stillness / emptyness which usually takes months and month some even years to devlop there no mind or stopping the chatter monkey mind and taming the horse. Even Wang Li Ping did months of seating in dark room, sitting inside the earth (holes) before he was taught anything from his teachers.

 

This is why i dont like how most of the Kunlun practitioners on this form think they are great cultivators (i can see them now getting angry), but im being totally honest here and i feel that they havent even mastered the basics and jumped straight into the fire looking for BLISS which is HEAT/FIRE. Max book says to stay on level 1 for at least 6 months before level2 which are both still running the fire for over 1-2 yrs before starting the waterfall training. So that being said his 1-2 levels are Fire untill you start the waterfall. Could the damage be done for some by the time level 3 comes?

 

Im not just picking on Kunlun but most cultivators that train without the most important rule of the mind. This is why i understand and like Lin on this forum he talks of Moral way of training. He understands why and what im talking about if he reads this.

 

You have my respects bro, your the 1st to bring this to light and you are truely keeping it real!

 

WYG

 

P.S Take my words as a grain of salt!

[Yoda]

This is why i dont like how most of the Kunlun practitioners on this form think they are great cultivators

 

I think there really are some great cultivators on this forum including some of the Kunlun people, but I think most of us are average joes like me and are totally fine with being that.

 

About firing up the imagery, maybe try to visualize while lying down and/or simplify the visualization a bit.

[thelerner]

Visualization tends to be a very personal thing. There are the good visualizers who visualize as if seeing the object in 3d. The great visualizers who see it exactly even with there eyes open. Then there are the shmoes like me, who can't visualize at all.

 

Yet I'm an avid reader and listen to tons of guided meditations. My 'visualizations' are a combination of auditory and emotional(maybe a fuzzy image).

 

For kunlun I'll do a breath down each arm and leg to 'whiten' them up as I fly on the cloud, then just relax and keeping it going. I don't do it for very long, once I feel calm I stop and do the kunlun position.

 

 

 

WYG, I have no idea where you think the people who've started Kunlun think they're great cultivators. I don't think anyones said, Wang Ping is my bitch. I don't think any bum is even on level two. Most people are reporting increased energy and some happy feelings (alright Cam was the exception, but there's always one in every bunch).

 

Personally I report leg twitches, thats all so far, but I've only done it a few weeks. Its an unusual method. I remember people getting there britches all knotted up when people would mention the microcosmic orbit. It'll make you crazy man!! you'll go insane. Hmn for some very energy sensitive people and those who way over due it, it can. But the large majority no problem.

 

Its best to do energy practices under an experienced teacher. Next best is to have access to those more experiences, so its nice that Matra68 and a few other experiences people are here to answer questions. There also other supports.

 

I think people are handling Kunlun just fine. It'll be real interesting to see how they progress once the training wheels are off.

 

 

Michael

[joeblast]

Good point, Yoda...there is no specified posture for the visualization. I will usually keep my heels down for it, and often I will do the visualization sitting cross-legged...I really couldnt imagine floating in the sky in any other posture

 

WYG, what in the world led you to infer that most kunlun practitioners on this board think they are great cultivators? I'm sure we're reading the same text, and I saw none such language. Inane comments like that are the reason people jump down your throat. As far as the fire goes, that's what the substantial amount of closing down is for. The reason that people keep pointing out that you dont practice and that your comments are somewhat baseless is because you're writing things brought forth from inferences and are lacking key points in your presentation that often nullify your point. We're not kids with firearms, here!

[Wun Yuen Gong]

If that is the case Joeblast then the water method visualization med would be part of level 1 rather then a closing which is only the let the body settle and the fire will still keep going regardless even days after as you finished just like Cameron for example coulldnt even sleep for a week!!!

 

Im sure there is good kunlun cultivators from Max's group just seems that on this forum i see very little with the correct knowledge and have jumped on the Bliss bandwagon wanting something higher or the highest path without learning about energy. Kunlun may bring that bliss straight away i dont know but when a person with no decent meditation background buys a book and fries his body of bliss fire i guess i start seeing alarm bells. Sorry its my nature to speak from my heart about such concerns as ive seen things go out of shape for people and there families.

 

 

be well

WYG

[Oolong Rabbit]

Hi Yue,

 

Perhaps it might help if you give your body a few cues. Maybe some fragrant flowers near by etc... I tried incense, but it almost becomes overpowering.

 

Good point, Yoda...there is no specified posture for the visualization. I will usually keep my heels down for it, and often I will do the visualization sitting cross-legged...I really couldnt imagine floating in the sky in any other posture

 

Same here. I also do the close down sitting cross legged.

[Mantra68]

Visualization is not necessary, only a suggestion for those who can't empty their minds.

 

Putting your iPod on is pretty effective too. Even T.V. Anything to get you out of your head so that the practice can do it's work.

[SiliconValley]

Visualization is not necessary, only a suggestion for those who can't empty their minds.

 

Putting your iPod on is pretty effective too. Even T.V. Anything to get you out of your head so that the practice can do it's work.

 

 

Perfect actually! I just turn on the TV and watch my favorite show and it works fantastic. I had my arm hurting, a sense of desperation waiting for 'something to happen' and stuff resulting in nothing happening. Now I just turn on TV, sit in the closing position [thanks Joeblast for that wonderful tip], and let go. Once my legs start vibrating, I take to the ball position, just watching TV and smiling [yeah, its generally a sitcom with silly stuff :-) ] and then lots of good things start happening. However, when I do the closing position again, I turn off the TV, sit totally quiet and enjoy the stillness.

Edited December 10, 2007 by SiliconValley

[Yue]

However, when I do the closing position again, I turn off the TV, sit totally quiet and enjoy the stillness.

 

I wonder if you could do the closedown with the TV still on? And Mantra68, if it is not necessary then why does Max say you must do it to "prohibit energetic blockages or chi dispersion"?

[joeblast]

Visualization is not necessary, only a suggestion for those who can't empty their minds.

[Yue]

If I do decide that I want to do the visualization, I have one question. Do you guys have a first or third person view when you do it. Are you looking down at yourself, or imagining that you ARE sitting in the sky instead of on a chair?

[Ben Koontz]

I do both. I will start off usually by imagining myself in the sky filling myself up with light when i breathe in, and exhailing the toxins when I breathe out. Then I will actually merge myself into that picture, and see the sky around me, sitting on the lotus, and doing the breathing as if I am actually there. I usually do the visualization 10 minutes before Kunlun, and 10 minutes after the resting part of Kunlun, for 20 minutes total.

 

Ben

[affenbrot]

[Guest winpro07]

Gong, have you been to a seminar yet? The Divine has it way for you. It is waiting for you now. Nothing I knew before measured up. Cultivation does not come from a critical mind -Let Go. IS

If that is the case Joeblast then the water method visualization med would be part of level 1 rather then a closing which is only the let the body settle and the fire will still keep going regardless even days after as you finished just like Cameron for example coulldnt even sleep for a week!!!

 

Im sure there is good kunlun cultivators from Max's group just seems that on this forum i see very little with the correct knowledge and have jumped on the Bliss bandwagon wanting something higher or the highest path without learning about energy. Kunlun may bring that bliss straight away i dont know but when a person with no decent meditation background buys a book and fries his body of bliss fire i guess i start seeing alarm bells. Sorry its my nature to speak from my heart about such concerns as ive seen things go out of shape for people and there families.

be well

WYG

[AugustLeo]

.

[Wun Yuen Gong]

Thanks, will go to the seminar when they come to Australia!

[Sunya]

anyone ever feel tingling on the left side of the head? above the ear?

i felt this pretty strongly today.

[Wun Yuen Gong]

Could be unblocking the Gallbladder meridian as in healing!?

 

 

Maybe when you get these sensations try and be aware of anything happening in the organs or anything related?

 

Just a thought....

[freeform]

Yue,

 

Each of us has a dominant sensory system - for some it visual, others auditory and others kinasthetic (or feeling). It's just our internal plumbing. Most of us will be much better at one than the other two, but it doesn't mean the other two arent present, they're just less distinct and conscious.

 

For visual people it's very easy to immediately visualise that scene. You and I and thelerner find it more difficult. You may be kinesthetic or auditory dominant - and once you find out which you can use it to your advantage.

 

for example imagining a sunny beach scene - for a visual person it just pops up they can see it, they can tell you the colour of the water, the sky, who or what else is on the beach.

 

I'm a kinasthetic person, so for me imagining a beach scene starts with remembering what it feels like to have my feet enveloped in warm, moist sand - the feeling of heat on my skin from the sun and the slight breeze cooling my skin - I feel the quality of the air as it fills my lungs and a hazy picture starts to develop in my mind's eye, maybe not sharp and defined but kind of 360 degree view and it really starts to become real without me trying to make it real by forcing it.

 

An auditory person might start by remembering the sound of sea birds and the sound of gentle waves and the quality that sound takes on in the seaside. You might hear the wind and the sound of kids playing in the distance.

 

So, start out with your dominant sense and gently start to discover how the other senses fit in there as you develop the scene.

 

I recommend with Max's specific visalization to experience it from first person - although you can set the scene initially from third person or 'omni-person' - when you're doing the light breathing you want to be in first person.

 

remember never try too hard - trying gets in the way of experiencing!

 

 

And I'd like to thank AugustLeo for the post below, and maybe bring a little more attention to it:

 

It's interesting to see the scope of responses to the Kunlun practice, which has been called the formless form. Some are very comfortable with accepting the idea of a formless form, some want the formless form to be more rigidly defined, and some are between the two extremes.

 

For me, Kunlun is an interesting practice because I have to let go of what I want and just allow what is, at each moment. A metaphor for life, perhaps. Or perhaps not.

 

AugustLeo

[joeblast]

very good points, freeform. personally I dont have much trouble visualizing and then engaging other senses. when I imagine breathing in, or breathing in light, I can see it with my eyes closed almost as if there is a light on in front of me. in complete darkness. I've tended to not go an kinesthetically deep because I have a gut impression that if I'm way up there, its going to be cold...and I'm more focusing on warmth and light...

[Ben Koontz]

I found this in the book "Merging with Siva"

It seems to me that it describes the Kunlun Visualization..

 

The highly trained classical yoga adept intensifies, through techniques imparted to him from his guru, the clear white light to the brink of God Realization, the void. His entire body is faded into a sea of blue-white light, the akasa, where now, past and future are recorded in teh linear depths or layers, sometimes seeing himself seated or standing on a lotus flower of shimmering light in an actinodic clear, transparent, neon, plastic-like body outline as his consciousness touches, in tune with heart's beat, into the Self, God Realization.

Edited December 22, 2007 by Ben Koontz

[90_1494798740]

I found this in the book "Merging with Siva"

It seems to me that it describes the Kunlun Visualization..

 

The highly trained classical yoga adept intensifies, through techniques imparted to him from his guru, the clear white light to the brink of God Realization, the void. His entire body is faded into a sea of blue-white light, the akasa, where now, past and future are recorded in teh linear depths or layers, sometimes seeing himself seated or standing on a lotus flower of shimmering light in an actinodic clear, transparent, neon, plastic-like body outline as his consciousness touches, in tune with heart's beat, into the Self, God Realization.

 

Thanks, very interesting ...

Edited December 22, 2007 by Guest