Sex transmutation. To stimulate or not?

[Vantage]

At the age of 33 I read David Deida's book where he talks about sex transmutation. At first I found it funny and I did not believe ejaculation really cost me that much energy. But lately it became more and more noticeable how big the energy drops where after ejaculation. I am now 35 and experimenting a lot with ejaculating less often. I went from 2 or 3 times per week to once every two weeks. At the moment it's been longer than two weeks ago and I am noticing some increase in energy and disicipline.

 

At the moment I don't have a partner.

 

Now what I am wondering about: is it better for me to masturbate? (w/o ejaculation ofcourse) to stimulate sexual energy. or better not to masturbate?

 

From my on experience it seems my natural tendency at the moment is to not masturbate at all, but this way my sexdrive is not really building up.

 

The times I did masturbate w/o ejaculation I did feel an increase of sexual energy but that often led to me chasing shallow sexual relationships.

 

Any thoughts or experiences are welcome in this area.

 

The books I read are David Deida's Way of the superior man and Charles Runels Integrated Sex Transmutation.

Edited December 10, 2007 by Vantage

[.broken.]

From my on experience it seems my natural tendency at the moment is to not masturbate at all, but this way my sexdrive is not really building up.

 

Is this necessarily a bad thing? Afterall, there is the old Taoist saying of: When the jing is full, there is no sexual desire. Most schools also believe in 100 days of laying the foundation - by which they mean no ejaculation and meditating for 100 days.

[mantis]

just don't masturbate and practice a form of pranayama to move the energy up and you'll be fine.

[Vantage]

Is this necessarily a bad thing? Afterall, there is the old Taoist saying of: When the jing is full, there is no sexual desire.

Good point. I did not really think that way before. Maybe it's a good thing.

 

Since I was used to having a high sexdrive, and chasing superficial sexual contacts, it feels kind of weird now having a minimal sexual desire.

 

Most schools also believe in 100 days of laying the foundation - by which they mean no ejaculation and meditating for 100 days.

Interesting.

 

Charles Runels says in his book the lifecycle of a spermcel is 81 days. So he suggest to aim at 81 days if possible.

 

I'll see what I feel like but based on the way I feel now I definetly want to try to get to 80-100 days.

[Taiji Bum]

Personally, I found I had to put it to immediate use or it would drain away or make me a bit schizo. If you want you can try to better handle the stimulation the sexual energy by going for a short/slow run for 15 minutes to pull the energy into your legs and then do some Tai Chi or take a walk and do some mantra for 5 minutes.

[Vantage]

just don't masturbate and practice a form of pranayama to move the energy up and you'll be fine.

 

The only exercise I know for this is called udyana bandha. a breathing exercise from yoga.

 

Should i be doing more breathing exercises to move the energy? if so, which?

 

Thanks for your help.

Edited December 11, 2007 by Vantage

[joeblast]

in my humble experience, if you keep the sexual energy cold, it is easier to work with. e.g. unaroused. the desire-o-meter doesnt go into the red.

[mantis]

you can try egyptian pranayama or ham-sa, whichever suits you best.

[Vantage]

you can try egyptian pranayama or ham-sa, whichever suits you best.

Can you point me to an easy place to learn these things?

 

I've been googling but could not find anything useful.

Edited December 12, 2007 by Vantage

[mantis]

here

[Vantage]

Thanks!

[Fire Dragon]

Broken 10 Dec wrote

 

by which they mean no ejaculation and meditating for 100 days.

 

 

F D: Should it realy be meditation and not masturbation?

 

Don't know how to quote

[MatthewQi]

At the age of 33 I read David Deida's book where he talks about sex transmutation. At first I found it funny and I did not believe ejaculation really cost me that much energy. But lately it became more and more noticeable how big the energy drops where after ejaculation. I am now 35 and experimenting a lot with ejaculating less often. I went from 2 or 3 times per week to once every two weeks. At the moment it's been longer than two weeks ago and I am noticing some increase in energy and disicipline.

 

At the moment I don't have a partner.

 

Now what I am wondering about: is it better for me to masturbate? (w/o ejaculation ofcourse) to stimulate sexual energy. or better not to masturbate?

 

From my on experience it seems my natural tendency at the moment is to not masturbate at all, but this way my sexdrive is not really building up.

 

The times I did masturbate w/o ejaculation I did feel an increase of sexual energy but that often led to me chasing shallow sexual relationships.

 

Any thoughts or experiences are welcome in this area.

 

The books I read are David Deida's Way of the superior man and Charles Runels Integrated Sex Transmutation.

 

Vantage,

 

Traditionally in Taoist practice the following is the thought on this:

 

1) Working with unaroused Jing is safer but is a longer path

 

2) Working with aroused Jing can be more risky but can be a shorter path

 

In Taoist history, this factor was at the heart of the split of the Complete Reality School of Taoism. The Northern school formed and believed in #1 above but starting as a young adult and cultivating then returning to society and starting a family life.

 

The Southern school took the approach of fulfilling family and societal responsibilities first and then in retirement using #2 above (not as much time in later life and the risk was justifiable).

 

From what I understand, practice #1 can take 12 years or even longer. Practice #2 can take a few years or more. In both cases, one may never obtain what they are seeking.

 

I know of cases where people have not practice anything and have come to it and there are many other practices outside of Taoist that lead to the same place.

 

Best,

 

Matt

[Vantage]

Thanks Matt for the interesting pointers. I get the impression that you are talking about enlightenment or something like that. I am not sure. The reason I am interested in sex transmutation is not for enlightenment.

 

I just want:

1. Good energy in general

2. A healthy appetite for women

 

Last time I ejaculted was 18 days ago, and it seems that my sexdrive is very low. I have very little interest in meeting or approaching women.

 

So maybe it would be a good idea to arouse myself and see how that works for me. Since I already know I am not going to ejaculate, I have little interest in masturbating. So maybe I need to recondition myself to experience pleasure with masturbating w/o ejaculation.

 

I am thinking out loud here, and as alway I will investigate and experiment further.

 

If I believe this quote I found on another board I should stimulate:

"You need to get horny for the energy to grow, it is a must for you to sexually stimulate yourself. Not getting horny is akin to leading the life of a eunuch priest. It simply doesn't work this way.

 

Read my posts again in that thread. I have mentioned the idea is "sex transmutation," not plain abstinence. To get results, you need to follow the proper protocol. Sexually stimulating yourself, and then redirecting that sexual energy gives you that "power" around women.

 

By not sexually stimulating yourself, you are building a dam across a dry stream. How can the damn generate electricity without water gushing through it? Don't supress your libido, rather encourage foreplay, etc., but try not to ejaculate. Ejaculation sends messages to the brain that sexual energy is depleted and hence certain chemical substances are released which "tire" a man."

 

I also found this post by (someone posting under the name of) Ron Jeremy. (bytheway, was it really him?)

IF YA BE SERIOUS ABOUT SEMMEN RETTENTION,

DA FIRST THING TO DO IS, YER SOLO CULTIVATION MUST BE DONE WITH A WATCH IN YER HAND (OR IN FRONT OF YA FOR PEOPLE LIKE ME WHO NEED *TWO* HANDS FOR SOLO CULTIVATION).

YA MUST SET A LENGHT O TIME, EG 10 MINUTES OR AT MOST 15 MINUTES, N STOP NO MATTER WHAT WHEN DA TIME EXPIRES.

IF YA FEEL YA BE CLOSE TO EJAC, STOP BEFORE THAT.

STOP WHEN YA REACH 80%-90% ORGASM. DO NOT PLAY ON DA EDGE.

DO THIS FOR AT LEAST 6 MONTHS.

IF YA CAN GO ON AT LEAST SIX MONTHS, BY THEN YA'LL HAVE REWIRED YER CHI SYSTEM N WILL HAVE ACQUIRED ENOUGH UNDERSTANDIN TO BE ABLE TO CHANGE A FEW THINGS (EG YA CAN START PLAYIN CLOSER TO DA EDGE, LIKE 95%).

BUT REMMEMBER, WHEN YA FIND YERSELF LOSIN TRACK O YER CLOCK N JUST CHASIN PLEASURE, YA *WILL* EJACCULATE SOONER OR LATER.

THIS PRACTICE'S ULTIMATE GOAL IS NOT PLEASURE BUT IS BREAKIN FREE FROM DA WHEEL O' SAMSARA. SO REMMEMBER DA CLOCK!!!

 

DA SECCOND MOST IMPORTANT THING IS, CIRCULLATION O DA LIGHT.

 

BYE NOW,

 

RJ

Edited December 15, 2007 by Vantage

[mantis]

masturbation isn't needed if you practice pranayama.

[Mal]

 

I just want:

1. Good energy in general

2. A healthy appetite for women

 

Ron Jeremy. (bytheway, was it really him?)

 

Not sure about Ron, before my time, although apparently it was quite "exciting" back then.

 

As to 1 & 2 try

 

http://www.actionlove.com/

 

Impossible to navigate, but there is great information in there,

 

Search for :-

CAT

3-Position Excitation

Finger plier

Anal Breathing (Honest, I think he has a thing for strange names)

 

Personally I just brought the CD, worth every penny and your partner (when you get one) will thank you forever.

[Vantage]

As to 1 & 2 try

 

http://www.actionlove.com/

 

Thanks for that tip I browsed through it shortly.

I would be very wary of people claiming to be doctor that are actually not a doctor. And the way he build his site up and uses exclamation marks does not promise much good to me. But that's just my opinion, maybe there is very good info there, I don't know.

[Trunk]

As to 1 & 2 try

 

http://www.actionlove.com/

For an accessible intro to Dr. Lin's (actionlove) material, go to AlchemicalTaoism.com (link), the "healing love" section, and look for Lin's "introductory links". Lin's more prominent material is boiled down to a single page.

 

There was a phase in the community when Lin was big; he has some useful material. AlchemicalTaoism.com is sort of a community archive, worth browsing.

[Vantage]

[mantis]

what i do is imagine me moving the energy from my testicles up to the spinal cord

 

creative energies = sexual energy

[Vantage]

what i do is imagine me moving the energy from my testicles up to the spinal cord

 

And how often/for how long do you do it?

Edited December 16, 2007 by Vantage

[mantis]

10-15 minutes, usually on the lesser end; twice a day.

 

after a few weeks of doing this you can incorporate the vajroli mudra, big boost in transmutation to.

[MatthewQi]

Thanks Matt for the interesting pointers. I get the impression that you are talking about enlightenment or something like that. I am not sure. The reason I am interested in sex transmutation is not for enlightenment.

 

I just want:

1. Good energy in general

2. A healthy appetite for women

 

Last time I ejaculted was 18 days ago, and it seems that my sexdrive is very low. I have very little interest in meeting or approaching women.

 

So maybe it would be a good idea to arouse myself and see how that works for me. Since I already know I am not going to ejaculate, I have little interest in masturbating. So maybe I need to recondition myself to experience pleasure with masturbating w/o ejaculation.

 

I am thinking out loud here, and as alway I will investigate and experiment further.

 

If I believe this quote I found on another board I should stimulate:

 

 

I also found this post by (someone posting under the name of) Ron Jeremy. (bytheway, was it really him?)

 

Hi Vantage,

 

Yes, I am talking about using sexual energy for enlightenment. If you look at all the suggestions and understand what there real purpose is, they are techniques for this.

 

If you are not interested in that then I am not sure that they will help you without that potential for that happening anyway. I mean, yes, you may achieve your goals, but also far surpass them and go down a path you are not looking for at this time. So, you might try talking to your doctor about it. You may have something else going on or maybe that is just the way you are.

 

For example, depression symptoms might affect one the way you describe. And if you have that, it is generally advised against spiritual practice (although some will say the opposite, but since you are not looking for that, I wouldn't advise it without understanding the risks).

 

Sexual energy is very powerful and if you have no intentions of using these techniques and learning others to refine it for spiritual purposes, you are probably better served by looking at other options. This might include some types of practices like yoga or chigung but also western medicine.

 

I would recommend finding someone who can spend the time needed to appropriately work with you.

 

Best,

 

Matt

[Vantage]

So, you might try talking to your doctor about it. You may have something else going on or maybe that is just the way you are.

 

Maybe I have given you the wrong impression. I am in fine health and my sexdrive and energy are above avarage, so I don't think there is any reason to talk to a doctor.

 

The reason I am interested in sex transmutation is:

-the books I read promise even better energy and drive in general.

-I have experienced increasing energy loss right after ejaculation.

 

And also I am interested if the increase in energy would benefit my meditative practice (the work of byron katie).

Edited December 18, 2007 by Vantage

[MatthewQi]

Maybe I have given you the wrong impression. I am in fine health and my sexdrive and energy are above avarage, so I don't think there is any reason to talk to a doctor.

 

The reason I am interested in sex transmutation is:

-the books I read promise even better energy and drive in general.

-I have experienced increasing energy loss right after ejaculation.

 

And also I am interested if the increase in energy would benefit my meditative practice (the work of byron katie).

 

Hi Vantage,

 

it is tough via posting to really understand each other sometimes. I just looked up what Katie teaches (albeit it was brief synopses) I do recall someone else telling me about her at one time. Good stuff! I'll try to remember to use her questions myself at times

 

I am not sure I am clear with what your big picture intention is. Are you seeking the spiritual awakening that she had? if not, what are you looking for from her meditation techniques that you practice or why are you doing them then? You cold always ask her for her view on it.

 

Best,

 

Matt