Internal cultivation for martial arts

[aden]

Reasons: 1. the sash is important to contain your qi within the middle-dan tien. This is the qi used in Northern longfist styles as there are alot of jumping, springing actions, rolling and somersaults. Can't do all these if your qi is rooted like the Southern martial arts, like White Crane for instance. Everytime a White Crane practitioner jumps, he has to bring his qi up from his lower dan tien, and that slows his action.

 

This is something that I never heard of. Thank you for the information; developing deftness and agility through internal cultivation is one of my main goals if I do get to learn proper neigong.

 

We haven't used waist sashes before. It's unrelated to the ranking systems right? So far, I have only learned from my instructor privately in regular clothing, as he doesn't hold any regular classes anymore.

 

Since my system doesn't (or haven't yet - I've only learned 4 out of 12 lines of Tan Tui in our system) used waist sashes for qi cultivation, do you have any suggestions? Possibly, I could learn how to train with sashes myself, with a capable instructor? I will ask the Sifu I will be meeting this weekend about this.

 

 

P.S.: Does the middle dan tien thing have to do with qing gong (lightness skill)?

 

2. Standing Post: every martial arts system has their own system of stationery rooting, even for NLF. This however depends whether the instructor wants to put the trainees through the system. Its exhausting, and no fun. He will lose students. However, this 'standing posts' will bring you to the level of internal cultivation, if done correctly that is. If this 'standing posts' is not within your school's syllabus, then perhaps, if your NLF is that of Chin Wu's, your first basic set should be The 12 Routines of T'an T'ui; or the 10 Routines of T'an T'ui of Liu-He-M'en. Either of the T'an T'ui set is for 'internal cultivation'. Now, you should be confused with whether my definition of 'internal cultivation' is the same as yours. The 'internal cultivation' that i refers to is Nei-gung, not that of the Daoists' with their cultivation of 'dan' or pill of elixir. Do ponder what I suggested.

 

 

I'm not so sure about standing posts, but I've been consistently practicing stances for the last year and a half. Could you inform me about Standing Posts? My training has been mostly self-practice - me learning the material and correct mistakes when we meet up, and practice for around 2 months on my own & repeat.

 

 

Our style is a pretty unknown one. The name is Sip Pal Gi - a northern kung fu lineage that settled in Korea. There are several branches that differ quite significantly though, as it is a mix mash of long fist, praying mantis, and bagua. Our branch emphasizes long fist with some bagua influence - very little to unnoticeable mantis influence.

Our version of tan tui is different from the more commonly known Jing Wu 12 Tan Tui or 10 Tan tui of Liu-He-M'en.

And yes, I was talking about Neigong, not Daoist meditation.

 

 

 

 

 

Edit: Actually not sure about Bagua influence. We use circle walking as a tool to better understand footwork and transition between stances. But there doesn't seem to be any explicit influence of Bagua.

Edited February 14, 2017 by aden

[s1va]

In truth, no one does (or should do) martial arts as portrayed in movies. 

 

That said, in my experience, unfortunately most dojo's aren't geared towards the 65+ beginners crowd.  There are undoubtedly exceptions to this rule.  You might call local dojo's and see if they have classes primarily for older folks.  If so watch a few before signing up.  In my experience when you see the 65+ crowd performing, often with excellence, its because they have decades of experience.  Even my beloved Aikido, a 'soft' art can be hard on stiff bodies;  one doesn't want a break fall to be taken too literally.

 

Tai chi is an excellent exception.   Where many groups have classes aimed at seniors, because it offers so many good lessons on balance and movement. 

 

That's a question that came out of curiosity to understand.  Luckily I am not 65+ yet  

[Sudhamma]

Hi Aden, I don't know about Sip Pai Gi. If the pronuniciation is in village Cantonese accent, then it stands to mean (a mix) "10-styles or schools". The term Long Fist, is an umbrella term for styles like Wah Chuen, 7-star Praying Mantis, Cha-chuen, Northern Shaolin, Mizong, Wudang (external school), Piqua, and styles/schools that employ long range hitting techniques. Taijichuen and Baquazhang are not considered as long fist system, but Wuji-chuen which looks similar to baquazhang, and is an internal system is in the long fist category. As for the use of the sash, it is not about ranking, that's the Japanese system. The use is what I have said earlier. Qing gong or light body skill is a different kettle of fish. Standing post, is zhang-ma, not those 'hug the tree' type. Talk to your instructor on this. On t'an t'ui, if your set has 12 routines, then it is from Jingwu, but there are variations in execution, and thus differ from country to country.

[aden]

Hi Aden, I don't know about Sip Pai Gi. If the pronuniciation is in village Cantonese accent, then it stands to mean (a mix) "10-styles or schools". The term Long Fist, is an umbrella term for styles like Wah Chuen, 7-star Praying Mantis, Cha-chuen, Northern Shaolin, Mizong, Wudang (external school), Piqua, and styles/schools that employ long range hitting techniques. Taijichuen and Baquazhang are not considered as long fist system, but Wuji-chuen which looks similar to baquazhang, and is an internal system is in the long fist category. As for the use of the sash, it is not about ranking, that's the Japanese system. The use is what I have said earlier. Qing gong or light body skill is a different kettle of fish. Standing post, is zhang-ma, not those 'hug the tree' type. Talk to your instructor on this. On t'an t'ui, if your set has 12 routines, then it is from Jingwu, but there are variations in execution, and thus differ from country to country.

 

The school's name originates from Korean pronunciation, actually.

I think it means "18 skills"; I don't know the reason why, but to clarify further, this martial art is different from the traditional korean martial art mentioned in the korean text "Muyedobotongji" - which references another martial art that is named "18 skills". (Both are completely different).

 

Here is our lineage's information. Hope it clarifies things: http://www.kungfu-wushu.com/history.htm

 

I looked up the Jing Wu tan tui style, and there definitely are similarities. There are, however, portion of the forms that are completely different as well.

 

Didn't know Pigua and 7-star praying mantis were classified as long fist styles. Interesting!

 

+ I will make sure to talk about these two training methods to my instructors. Hopefully I will learn a lot from them.

Edited February 14, 2017 by aden

[Sudhamma]

Hi Aden, what I see from the photos and videos are atypical Northern Long Fist routines. I must add also that under the umbrella of Northern Shaolin, there are many schools/styles... I had mentioned Liu-He-M'en or 6 Harmonies, and in your school's curriculum, there is one set from there. Liu-He-M'en full name is Shaolin Wei Tor Liu-He-M'en. Wei Tor is the name of a diety. If I'm not wrong, the Tiger-Swallow set is from Praying Mantis. The students are wearing yellow sash, but not well tightened to constrict the waist. For internal cultivation of nei-qi and nei-gong, the t'an t'ui set is enough. The "18-skills" you mentioned refers to the 18 types of Chinese weapons, including bows and arrows.

[aden]

Hi Aden, what I see from the photos and videos are atypical Northern Long Fist routines. I must add also that under the umbrella of Northern Shaolin, there are many schools/styles... I had mentioned Liu-He-M'en or 6 Harmonies, and in your school's curriculum, there is one set from there. Liu-He-M'en full name is Shaolin Wei Tor Liu-He-M'en. Wei Tor is the name of a diety. If I'm not wrong, the Tiger-Swallow set is from Praying Mantis. 

 

It seems that quite a few Northern Shaolin schools pick up and adapt different forms for their needs and philosphies - vagabond style, rather than strictly sticking to one "martial art style". Our lineage seems to be included in this category.

So there are some mantis influence in our forms! I had no idea. However, we primarily use fist and palm. We don't use animal-hand techniques.

[Sudhamma]

Hi Aden, When Jingwu was formed, various masters from various schools were invited to teach in various centres, but all students had to learn two basic sets, the 12 routines of T'an T'ui and Gung-Li chuen. From my understanding, the T'an T'ui set was special choreographed with unique movements from other schools. Only Jingwu will have this 12 routines of T'an T'ui. You can't even find this set from the original T'an T'ui school in Shantung. Thus, the teaching curriculum within the Jingwu varies from centre-to-centre. If you are looking to learn a un-mixed style, then schools like Liu-He-M'en, Da-sheng Piqua M'en, or the 7-star praying mantis will meet your expectation. Da-sheng piqua M'en is a Northern monkey style.

[aden]

From my understanding, the T'an T'ui set was special choreographed with unique movements from other schools. Only Jingwu will have this 12 routines of T'an T'ui. You can't even find this set from the original T'an T'ui school in Shantung. 

 

I actually did hear than my school's lineage is primarily influenced by Long fist styles from Shantung. 

 

 

 

Thus, the teaching curriculum within the Jingwu varies from centre-to-centre. If you are looking to learn a un-mixed style, then schools like Liu-He-M'en, Da-sheng Piqua M'en, or the 7-star praying mantis will meet your expectation. Da-sheng piqua M'en is a Northern monkey style.

 

Thanks for the recommendation, but I have decided to stick with my current instructor for now. Many chinese martial artists throughout history picked up and adapted combat techniques for their own benefits. I don't think styles need to be "pure" or have "unbroken lineages" - they just need to be practical and applicable to one's own philosophy. After all, chinese martial arts are very practical. In terms of practicality and effectiveness, I think both mixed and un-mixed styles of traditional kung fu are all on equal levels. Not so sure about this recent movement on trying to turn kung fu into basic kickboxing and wrestling, though.

 

We seriously need more discussion about Northern Long fist styles on this forum. They're very much neglected compared to other styles like typical IMA styles or Southern kung fu styles.

[Sudhamma]

I've a different approach to learning martial arts. Each 'founder' of a school/style had his own fighting philosophy and that would choreographed the movements accordingly (normally after tested the techniques for practicality). Thus, learning the martial arts of a particular school is like reading the books written by a singular writer. However, this ease of understanding may not be so in a system with mixed sets from various schools. The fighting philosophy of taijichuan for instance is very different from karate as an illustration. The internal cultivation of nei-gong is immaterial if the purpose of learning martial arts is just for health similar to running and swimming. Similarly, learning one set well and understand its applications and able to use it for that internal cultivation is much more satisfying and purposeful than learning 20 sets but arely scratching their surfaces, rolling stones do gather no moss.

On the other hand, learning a mixed style has itss benefits similarly like that of research and personal development. Knowing other styles broadens one's outlook and know that there are mountains higher than the one you see. There are different approaches adopted by different schools. However, one must have a good foundation with one unmixed style. So in your case, choose one set, perhaps T'an T'ui, and concentrate on learning it in depth. Learning martial arts is itself an education.

[Michael Sternbach]

I've a different approach to learning martial arts. Each 'founder' of a school/style had his own fighting philosophy and that would choreographed the movements accordingly (normally after tested the techniques for practicality). Thus, learning the martial arts of a particular school is like reading the books written by a singular writer.

While the ideas and experiences of a style's 'founder' naturally leave their mark on it, there seem to be no styles extant that aren't revisions and - in virtually every case - combinations of older styles.

 

However, this ease of understanding may not be so in a system with mixed sets from various schools.

In my view, what matters is how well a mixed system's constituents have been integrated into a consistent whole. To illustrate, some (all?) Jeet Kune Do schools teach kickboxing, wrestling, Arnis etc separately, while JKD's sister art Kenpo succeeds at blending methods from its various mother arts smoothely.

 

The fighting philosophy of taijichuan for instance is very different from karate as an illustration.

While this is true as far as most of Japanese mainland Karate is concerned, the arts you mentioned become much closer to each other if you look at certain Okinawan systems such as Matsumura Seito Shorin Ryu with its strong influence from Fujien White Crane.

 

White Crane was the prevalent influence at the origin of much of Okinawan Karate, and its principles are identical with those used in Taiji according to the well known master of both arts Jwing Ming Yang.

 

Moreover, it has been observed by some Japanese Karate masters that on highly advanced levels, their art becomes more like Taiji.

 

The internal cultivation of nei-gong is immaterial if the purpose of learning martial arts is just for health similar to running and swimming.

Agreed if you think of martial arts as nothing but another kind of fitness training ("cardio kickboxing"). However, their greatest and long lasting contributions to one's physical and emotional health lie exactly in their potential to cultivate and balance the practitioner's chi flow. At least rudimentary neigong methods are frequently a part of that and can be found even in a style as 'external' as Kyokushin Karate.

 

Similarly, learning one set well and understand its applications and able to use it for that internal cultivation is much more satisfying and purposeful than learning 20 sets but arely scratching their surfaces, rolling stones do gather no moss.

I certainly agree with your 'quality over quantity' approach as a general tenet.

 

On the other hand, learning a mixed style has itss benefits similarly like that of research and personal development. Knowing other styles broadens one's outlook and know that there are mountains higher than the one you see. There are different approaches adopted by different schools. However, one must have a good foundation with one unmixed style. So in your case, choose one set, perhaps T'an T'ui, and concentrate on learning it in depth. Learning martial arts is itself an education.

Actually, T'an t'ui as an original system in its own right is rather elusive, however, many styles have some variation of the T'an t'ui form (or set) in their basic curriculum. It is true that this form alone would usually provide enough material for years of study.

[aden]

While the ideas and experiences of a style's 'founder' naturally leave their mark on it, there seem to be no styles extant that aren't revisions and - in virtually every case - combinations of older styles.

 

 

In my view, what matters is how well a mixed system's constituents have been integrated into a consistent whole. To illustrate, some (all?) Jeet Kune Do schools teach kickboxing, wrestling, Arnis etc separately, while JKD's sister art Kenpo succeeds at blending methods from its various mother arts smoothely.

 

I agree that there will be revisions, no matter how pure a certain style is. Martial arts, after all, reflects on the skills and experiences of an individual. The most important part is how to integrate those experiences and skills as a consistent system - which majority of the traditional kung fu arts have done perfectly.

 

For that reason, I tremendously respect chinese martial arts, as well as Kenpo styles - as they succeeded on establishing the philosophy of integrating existing techniques, forms, and experiences smoothly into a complete, consistent system. I think modern day MMA (as well as other modern day combative-oriented systems) severely lack this aspect.

 

 

White Crane was the prevalent influence at the origin of much of Okinawan Karate, and its principles are identical with those used in Taiji according to the well known master of both arts Jwing Ming Yang.

 

Moreover, it has been observed by some Japanese Karate masters that on highly advanced levels, their art becomes more like Taiji.

 

 

Agreed if you think of martial arts as nothing but another kind of fitness training ("cardio kickboxing"). However, their greatest and long lasting contributions to one's physical and emotional health lie exactly in their potential to cultivate and balance the practitioner's chi flow. At least rudimentary neigong methods are frequently a part of that and can be found even in a style as 'external' as Kyokushin Karate.

 

I am pretty sure than both quite a few "external" schools in the past put much more emphasis on internal cultivation. The internal cultivation practices would also carry over directly to combat, such as application of fajin and agility. For some reason, these aspects are completely absent in a lot of kung fu schools today. I only became aware of internal force after I took the lesson from Sifu Korahais (and it's only been less than a year since). It's depressing to hear people say that the so called kung fu practitioners claim that horse stance is just for strengthening the leg muscles. No applicability in using the stance for footwork or developing internal force/stillness. If you wanted to strengthen leg muscles, why not just lift weights?

 

 

Actually, T'an t'ui as an original system in its own right is rather elusive, however, many styles have some variation of the T'an t'ui form (or set) in their basic curriculum. It is true that this form alone would usually provide enough material for years of study.

 

Isn't the original Tan Tui from the Long Tan temple?

 

And agreed with Tan Tui being worthy of years of study. Sifu Wong Kiew Kit mentioned that one could be a very powerful master just with mastering Tan Tui. Although the form looks basic on the surface, I can see how every single movement can be applied in multiple ways. Because of its simplicity yet sophistication, Sifu Korahais mentioned that it takes a lot of skill to master Tan Tui for combat.

[azucenaalev]

Thank you for the recommendation, azucenaalev.

 

What type of experiences did you have with this school? Do they extensively practice internal work? How about combat application/sequences from forms? Won Hop Loong Quan sounds interesting; never heard of it, but is it a northern kung fu style by nature?

 

I'm genuinely interested.

 

 

 

Edit: I know that more "spiritual" systems don't necessarily do internal work for martial arts, but couldn't they still be cost effective? I also hear that advancing in internal cultivation for martial arts / medical usages don't come without spiritual development.

 

I know that it probably won't in terms of Fa jin, as they do not practice it - but rather in terms of mind development (mental clarity & awareness/alertness), suppleness, and energy cultivation. 

 

The reason why I've been keeping Sheng Zhen as one of my potential options is because they also have seated forms & meditation forms that work on training the mind, qi circulation (microcosmic orbit?), and opening up the middle and upper dantian. On their website, they listed the middle dantian as the heart, and the upper dantian as the third eye.

 

In addition, I've began practicing Shiba Luohan Gong, which already has force/fa jin/agility exercises. I was thinking that practicing a martial-specific moving form like Shiba Luohan Gong alongside the seated/meditative Sheng Zhen forms under a good teacher may complement each other tremendously.

 

(I just saw this because I forgot to mess with my notification settings)

 

But I've trained with them for a long time. There's Tai Chi + the external martial stuff, and a great deal of internal stuff as well, but you'll be more exposed to that as you advance. We practice kata, applications, and sparing, with the Austin class putting heavier emphasis on the former two of the three.

[aden]

(I just saw this because I forgot to mess with my notification settings)

 

But I've trained with them for a long time. There's Tai Chi + the external martial stuff, and a great deal of internal stuff as well, but you'll be more exposed to that as you advance. We practice kata, applications, and sparing, with the Austin class putting heavier emphasis on the former two of the three.

 

 

Thanks for the info. I have already decided to meet with another teacher in like 2 days, but I still plan to look into the group. 

I will post how my experience is in a few days.

 

Glad to see that they emphasize applications, by the way. I feel that the skill to translate apply the movements people learned in the forms for combat is a very rare skill.

[Sudhamma]

The T'an T'ui 12-routines of Jingwu was a special formulation. There is a T'an T'ui M'en in Shantung, said to be originally from Loong Tan Temple and what is taught there is a complete MA system complete with weaponry, not just one set that we know as 12 routines. T'an T'ui was effective and famous as a fighting arts in the North and there are other MA systems, like Cha-chuen that incorporates t'an t'ui techniques in their Cha-chuen T'an T'ui routines. My opinion about mixed styles is not about those that have assimiliated various fighting techniques of different schools-of-tfighting into one homogenous style, like for instance 7-star Praying Mantis with their Tongbei techniques, or Jou-Jia assimiliating both Southern and Northern techniques. I'm referring to a mixed syllabus where a student learn in a centre one set taken from A school is taught for say 6 months, then another set from B school for another 6 months that sort of programme, unless there is a sort of a common thread between the sets. For instance, the common thread in Sip Pai Gi is Northern Shaolin and there is no conflict (of interest). To illustrate what is conflicting thread, take for instance one set of the long stretched 'big' movements of Hua Chuen for 6 months and move on to the 'small frame' Wu Taijichuen for 6 months. This type of mixing is not good for the student. The jing in Taijichuen is different from Fujian White Crane or Northern Shaolin and even the stances are different, similarly, the expression of jing in Northern Long Fist is not the same as the explosive Southern school.  Yes, ultimately, the jing in its highest level of expression is the same regardless of fighting system, but the student has not reached that destination yet. As is commonly said, the externalist will train from the external to reach the internal, and the internalist, from internal to reach external. That's when karate becomes more like taijichuen in its external form as said by contributor Michael Sternbach. However, in Tibetan White Crane, there is The Needle in the Cotton set, Hung-gar with its Steel Wire Fist set, Northern Shaolin with its Taming the Tiger set, these sets are 'internal' yet different from the emphasis of 'internal' of taijichuen, with the exception of The Needle in the Cotton.

Edited February 17, 2017 by Sudhamma

[azucenaalev]

Thanks for the info. I have already decided to meet with another teacher in like 2 days, but I still plan to look into the group. 

I will post how my experience is in a few days.

 

Glad to see that they emphasize applications, by the way. I feel that the skill to translate apply the movements people learned in the forms for combat is a very rare skill.

 

No problem! I hope your meeting goes well!

[aden]

Alright, back from Sifu Harris's class.

 

He seems highly knowledgeable in IMA styles, and specializes in Baguazhang - primarily from Yin style and Ching style - and others. He also teaches Sun & Yang style Taiji, as well as White Crane, but aren't really things that he specializes in. He also told me that he has experiences in Tan Tui as well. The techniques I learned today were primarily Bagua oriented, but there wasn't any material that conflicted with my Long fist curriculum.

 

He is aware of all the different IMA schools,teachers and their training philosophies -  Sifu Anthony Korahais and Sifu Wong Kiew Kit being the two of them. He actually explained that his philosophy of deciphering forms / combat application is pretty much the same as theirs. While he didn't teach me any extra qigong techniques, he told me to continue on practicing Sifu Korahais' material.

 

Sifu Harris taught me the basic principle how to internalize my Long fist, via "relaxing but not collapsing". I was taught to relax my movements, and focus my intent when I punched or palmed. The details are hard to write, but I hope you understand what it means. While doing this, he emphasized the importance of being aware of my own "internal body" as well as my surroundings. To practice this, he taught me standing meditation.

 

There's numerous others, but we have planned to focus on:

 

1) deciphering & applying my long fist forms for combat

2) internal power for martial & health purposes 

3) learning Baguazhang - not so sure how deep I am willing to explore into the art, but we will see.

 

Overall it was a very satisfying lesson. I completely backed out when he offered me to test his internal strike on me though.

 

 

 

 

P.S. about the middle dantien emphasis on Northern Long fist styles, he disagreed with the sash training method. I'm not going to get into the details, but he told me that middle dantien training will come later when I have established a strong basis in my lower dantien.

 

 

 

Edit:

 

Long fist curriculum --> Long fist material that I've learned so far (thanks for pointing that out Sudhamma)

 

Regarding what of Sifu Harris knows, I can't say for certain. He said he had learned from various reputable teachers and picked up what he was able to learn. Of course, he noted the stark differences between the Yin and Ching lineages.

Edited February 19, 2017 by aden

[Sudhamma]

The techniques I learned today were primarily Bagua oriented, but there wasn't any material that conflicted with my Long fist curriculum. Comment: I thought you are still learning your T'an T'ui routines, having stopped at routine #4?

 

 While he didn't teach me any extra qigong techniques, he told me to continue on practicing Sifu Korahais' material.

Comment: I thought in the past that Nei-gong and Qigong were the same, but recently, I realized that though there were similarities, results from nei-gong is different from qigong. T'an T'ui is not qigong, but a martial set that if you practised it well, you can improve and develop nei-gong. That your 'internal cultivation'.

 

Sifu Harris taught me the basic principle how to internalize my Long fist, via "relaxing but not collapsing". I was taught to relax my movements, and focus my intent when I punched or palmed. The details are hard to write, but I hope you understand what it means.

Comment: Yes, he is right and closer to the 'real thing' with relaxing but not collapsing....look at some other 't'an t'ui' being practised in Jingwu you will find the glaring difference.

 

While doing this, he emphasized the importance of being aware of my own "internal body" as well as my surroundings. To practice this, he taught me standing meditation.

Comment: Being aware of your surrounding....something like a heightened sixth sense, comes from good practice. You will know when the situation arise. In your curriculum, you have the 'stance training', you can use ma-bu and gong-bu for your 'standing' with each stance taking say, 2 minutes and progressing to 20 minutes at a sitting. But you have to use a waist sash, a broad cotton sash of about 8" width x 10ft to tie around the waist. Tighten your waist with the sash, maybe about 3 rounds, and you may a friend to help you by tensioning at the opposite end. When you come to the opposite end, tuck it in behind those rounds of cloth. No need to tie the ends. Time your standing period for each stance and ignore that shivering in your legs, do breathe and not to hold your breath. However, if you do not want to use the sash, then ignore what I've written here.

 

There's numerous others, but we have planned to focus on:

 

1) deciphering & applying my long fist forms for combat

2) internal power for martial & health purposes 

3) learning Baguazhang - not so sure how deep I am willing to explore into the art, but we will see.

Comment:

Baquazhang, your instructor would be very formiable, having knowledge from Yin Fu, Cheng Ting Hua, and "others" So, is he going to teach the Yin Fu system first? Anyway, both Yin Fu's and Cheng TH's system differs from each other, beginning with stepping and palm techniques. Baquazhang is a good internal system to learn but difficult to master in depth.

 

This will be my last post on this as you now has the asnwers to your search. Enjoy your journey.

[aden]

Hello Everybody,

 

I again wanted to thank you for all your feedback and advice last time. Just wanted to say a few things:

 

Training under Sifu Harris (I call him Justin) is going well. I don't have too many opportunities to meet up in lessons, since we live approximately 3 hours apart. But the materials and advice I've learned so far has been helping me a lot in martial practice; the movements are much smoother, and I've stopped overextending and "locking up" myself. (a common problem I used to have, very easy mistake to make when practicing Long fist). Most of my training is still self-practice.

 

As I chose to specialize in Long fist rather than learning Bagua/Taijiquan, Sifu Harris decided to train internal principles of Tong bei (通背). It works wonderfully well with Long fist, Sifu Harris actually noted that it was one of the notable internal training principle among Northern Long-arm practitioners in the past. (He noted that he learned it from Hui teachers, who mainly practiced Chaquan.).

 

 

Thank you everybody, I will continue practicing now.

 

 

 

 

 

P.S.: Clarification regarding lineage:

 

After some more research and asking around, I may have been in error regarding my lineage's style. 

The only clear thing about the Long fist style of my lineage is that it originated from the Shantung province. It's not really known how the system was formed, but it dates to at least the mid-late 19th century China, later on passing over to Korea in the 40s-50s. 

When it arrived in Korea, this Long fist style existed alongside arts such as Mantis and Bagua. However, it seems like the extensive mixing of Mantis/Bagua and the original form of Long fist in Korea hadn't occurred yet, when this style of Long fist was learned and passed on over into the U.S (it came into the U.S. in the 70s). Most of the related Chinese martial arts schools in Korea and outside Korea, on the other hand, show extensive mixing of Mantis-Bagua-Long fist.

 

It's highly likely that the Long fist style of our school is almost, if not pretty much the same, as it was in mid-late 19th century Shantung, without any notable Mantis or Bagua influence/principles. So that was a mistake on my part.