self-love vs. love for others

[roger]

Something very meaningful to me, and that I feel is of utmost importance these days, is the relationship between self-love and love for others. The "self-love movement" is a good thing imo, but many people still haven't resolved the basic conflict because of a simple misunderstanding.

 

Here's the thing: An act of love is either loving towards yourself AND others, or NEITHER.

 

You can't love yourself at the expense of others- that's not self-love. And you can't love others at the expense of yourself- that's not love for others.

 

To attack another is to attack yourself. To bless another is to bless yourself.

 

Consider the justice of this, not as a "punishment" of any kind, but as love.

 

If it were true that an act could be best for oneself but not for others, truth itself would be an absurdity. Love would then be attack. Loving oneself would be attacking others. How insane God and truth would be!

 

This is the essence of divine justice and what ACIM calls the "law of love" (karma).

 

You either love yourself AND others, or NEITHER.

Edited January 14, 2017 by roger

[z00se]

You either love yourself AND others, or NEITHER.

 

I love my family. I don't love my enemy. How does that work?

[Marblehead]

That's where I'm at too.  I most times love myself, most others tend to irritate me too much for me to love them.

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O81i6zibYCU

 

[Brian]

I love my family. I don't love my enemy. How does that work?

Would you like the opportunity to destroy your enemy or would you regret finding no alternative?

[Golden Dragon Shining]

self love has become a monster

where everything is equal and everybody is perfect, not good

neither do you have to love everyone, it's insane

Wisdom, knowledge, reasoning needs more focus 

[shazlor]

"Heaven and earth are ruthless, and treat the myriad creatures as straw dogs;

the sage is ruthless, and treats (himself &) the people as straw dogs."

 

?

 

*pondering chin pose*

[Golden Dragon Shining]

Lao Tzu, my old friend

[doc benway]

Something very meaningful to me, and that I feel is of utmost importance these days, is the relationship between self-love and love for others. The "self-love movement" is a good thing imo, but many people still haven't resolved the basic conflict because of a simple misunderstanding.

 

Here's the thing: An act of love is either loving towards yourself AND others, or NEITHER.

 

You can't love yourself at the expense of others- that's not self-love. And you can't love others at the expense of yourself- that's not love for others.

 

To attack another is to attack yourself. To bless another is to bless yourself.

 

Consider the justice of this, not as a "punishment" of any kind, but as love.

 

If it were true that an act could be best for oneself but not for others, truth itself would be an absurdity. Love would then be attack. Loving oneself would be attacking others. How insane God and truth would be!

 

This is the essence of divine justice and what ACIM calls the "law of love" (karma).

 

You either love yourself AND others, or NEITHER.

 

Thank you for sharing your insights, roger.

 

_/\_

[liminal_luke]

I love my family. I don't love my enemy. How does that work?

 

I`m reminded of the Buddhist practice of Metta, repeating phrases to develop loving-kindness.  As I remember it, one traditionally attempts to develop loving feelings first towards oneself, then someone close such as a family member, someone neutral towards whom there are no strong feelings either way, and finally towards an "enemy."  The enemy is last because that`s the hardest.  

 

I don`t think love is an all-or-nothing affair: there are degrees.  And I agree with Roger that self-love and love for others are ultimately yoked.  Perfect self-love reaches out to all beings, the seemingly good and the seemingly bad, equally.  Imperfect love might not make it out of the livingroom.

Edited January 15, 2017 by liminal_luke

[z00se]

Would you like the opportunity to destroy your enemy or would you regret finding no alternative?

 

I don't really have any real enemies. There are some people I don't really like, and i probably avoid them for the most part, as I don't see any point on trying to mix things that don't mix. When in contact I try to harmonize without devaluing myself.

 

 

I`m reminded of the Buddhist practice of Metta, repeating phrases to develop loving-kindness.  As I remember it, one traditionally attempts to develop loving feelings first towards oneself, then someone close such as a family member, someone neutral towards whom there are no strong feelings either way, and finally towards an "enemy."  The enemy is last because that`s the hardest.  

 

I don`t think love is an all-or-nothing affair: there are degrees.  And I agree with Roger that self-love and love for others are ultimately yoked.  Perfect self-love reaches out to all beings, the seemingly good and the seemingly bad, equally.  Imperfect love might not make it out of the livingroom.

 

Yeah, i like that, 'attempts to develop loving feelings', that makes sense and i agree with it. But loving the enemy? Mixing oil and water? For that one needs an emulsifier. So when an emulsifier exists, like a common goal that my enemy and I can work together towards, we can easily mix, but without - it is working against the tao..... thats how i see it anyhow.

 

I don't take the view it's ultimately yolked because although in many cases it may be, there are many instances where it is not.

 

So now we have two types of love? perfect and imperfect? That's why I choose truth over love, because I know where i stand and i don't need to bend the truth. However as i'm getting older truth seeking is tiring work and i'm starting to see more benefits of love  

[roger]

That's where I'm at too.  I most times love myself, most others tend to irritate me too much for me to love them.

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O81i6zibYCU

 

 

I love my family. I don't love my enemy. How does that work?

 

MH, the thing is that, in terms of experience, it's not so that you either love a person, or you don't. Everyone loves everyone to some extent. You, personally, are very loving imo, and that love for others is a reflection of your self-love.

 

z00se, the point I was making is that a specific action, choice, or thought, is either loving towards oneself and others, or towards neither.

 

For example, when a person feels hatred, that feeling isn't loving towards themselves, or others.

 

It's not really SELF-loving to not love one's enemies.

[Marblehead]

MH, the thing is that, in terms of experience, it's not so that you either love a person, or you don't. Everyone loves everyone to some extent. You, personally, are very loving imo, and that love for others is a reflection of your self-love.

 

 

Well, I do hold to the Daoist concept of "Compassion", one of the Three Treasures.

[daimai]

This is interesting on an intellectual level but what do you do when arriving at the conclusion that love cannot be forced or commanded?

 

Like enlightenment, I think ripe conditions for love to flourish can be cultivated, but I don't think we're the ones calling the shots. When you love someone, you love them, when you don't, you don't. It's been said that faking love can be damaging..

[Golden Dragon Shining]

Does love others and compassion encompass animals?



Or does self-love overrule?

[Kubba]

In practice it is limited by us to loving your own body and other bodies. Somewhere we need to start.

[Marblehead]

Does love others and compassion encompass animals?

 

 

 

Or does self-love overrule?

 

Excellent questions. 

 

To your first; I would say "Yes".  However, let's look into the natural world and note that the food chain is that the lowest level are herbivores, the top of the food chain are carnivores.  That is the Way of Nature.  In the wild kingdom there is no compassion.  We humans have the capacity for compassion even when we are being carnivores.

 

To the second question; survival is the key word.  Self-love is part of the survival instinct.  I have fish in my ponds.  They are not beyond being eaten.

[liminal_luke]

Does love others and compassion encompass animals?

 

Absolutely!  Before being slaughtered and brought to market, cattle, for example, should be allowed to eat their natural diet (pasture grass) in uncrowded conditions that maximize their health and happiness.

Edited January 16, 2017 by liminal_luke

[Prasanna]

Here I take self-love to mean selfish love and love for others to mean unselfish love. These two are not the absolute love. Absolute love is like how Lord Shri Krishna has defined in the Twelfth Chapter of Bhagavad Gita. There is a whole chapter dedicated to devotion or true love. The first and foremost quality of a true Devotee of God is "Non hatred towards every being" (Adveshta sarva Bhuthaanaam). In the same Chapter XII, earlier He defines absolute love as that in which the person revels in the welfare of all the beings of the world (Sarva Bhutha hithe rathaaha).

 

The entire spiritual effort is not limited to love, but in growing up even beyond universal love and realizing the absolute Truth that "I am God" (Aham Brahmaasmi). What does this mean? This means that real service to humanity is in Self Realization or in absolute effacement of our little self or Ego. It is the very purpose of human birth, the highest of birth in the whole of creation, to achieve Self Realization or Realizing our original and true Supreme Self or Godhood within ourselves. This is the crux of Vedanta philosophy. We are not this limited, restricted, weak, embodied personality comprising the Body, Mind, Intellect and Ego, but we are the supreme self or the God within the subtlest core of our being which is the enlivening principle that supports all our perceptions, actions, emotions, thinking and and individual ego. Give up your false identification with the superficial material layers and rise in stature by recognizing and realizing your true Divinity or Godhood within. You are nothing else but God, and certainly not this troublesome and fallacious egoistic existence. 

[Prasanna]

Does love others and compassion encompass animals?

 

 

Or does self-love overrule?

 

 

 

Excellent questions. 

 

To your first; I would say "Yes".  However, let's look into the natural world and note that the food chain is that the lowest level are herbivores, the top of the food chain are carnivores.  That is the Way of Nature.  In the wild kingdom there is no compassion.  We humans have the capacity for compassion even when we are being carnivores.

 

To the second question; survival is the key word.  Self-love is part of the survival instinct.  I have fish in my ponds.  They are not beyond being eaten.

 

 

Absolutely!  Before being slaughtered and brought to market, cattle, for example, should be allowed to eat their natural diet (pasture grass) in uncrowded conditions that maximize their health and happiness.

Yes love others and compassion certainly encompasses other animals too, at least in the context of Hinduism. The priest class Brahmins do not take non vegetarian foods comprising Egg, fish, poultry, meat and other products that is derived by mercilessly killing other beings. True Love is in recognizing or identifying the one enlivening principle, God or Divinity that is supporting the life of all the beings from within the subtlest core of all the beings. True love is in revelling in the welfare of all the beings, not in perceiving them to be food products. The Western outlook of seeing birds and animals as poultry and cattle meant for slaughtering to cater to their hunger and taste buds is very gross and something abominable.

Edited January 17, 2017 by Prasanna

[Prasanna]

Yes love others and compassion certainly encompasses other animals too, at least in the context of Hinduism. The priest class Brahmins do not take non vegetarian foods comprising Egg, fish, poultry, meat and other products that is derived by mercilessly killing other beings. True Love is in recognizing or identifying the one enlivening principle, God or Divinity that is supporting the life of all the beings from within the subtlest core of all the beings. True love is in revelling in the welfare of all the beings, not in perceiving them to be food products. The Western outlook of seeing birds and animals as poultry and cattle meant for slaughtering to cater to their hunger and taste buds is very gross and something abominable.