Ming Stages/Replenishing Yuan Qi/Ming Gong

[Daeluin]

The zhong lu quan dao ji also talks about how the yuan qi may be used to refine the body and add years to one's life. To be clear, one may add years to one's life without preventing or reversing the process of aging.

 

This is all available in chapter 14 of this book, and is also translated at the end of this book.

[Wells]

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Edited March 2, 2017 by Wells

[Daeluin]

The primordial qi is stored in the kidney and distributed to all parts of the body through the triple energizer.

 

Perhaps a similar trajectory to the triple burner can be used to reverse this process.

 

 

Ever try standing straight, feet parallel, shoulder width apart, knees slightly bent, arms by the side with palms lightly pressing to the rear? I recommend arriving here after some other type of qigong or standing meditation, to clear and develop one's qi, then: Open your arms out to the sides and up to above the head, then let the palms turn in/down to be parallel with the ground, thumbs facing toward the body, and bring the palms down the front of the body, all the way down until your palms naturally come to the sides to lightly press to the rear. Keep the mind empty and the body relaxed and let the qi naturally condense without forcing or leading anything.

 

Please be sure to consult your teacher or doctor before trying this, at risk to your health. This is likely something that could easily be done wrong and lead to health issues without proper instruction.

 

 

In Peter Shea's book Alchemy of the Extraordinary:

 

 

 

Trajectory 3 of the Du Vessel

 

Begins at UB1 at the eyes and continues to Du 20, enters the brain and emerges at Du 16. Here it travels bilaterally down the spine along the Huatuojiaji Points to enter the Kidneys at UB23. This trajectory governs the sensory motor tracts. Its trajectory from the senses to the Kidneys shows the potential of "sealing our senses" to create more jing, more of our self.

 

 

 

[shazlor]

Edited January 19, 2017 by shazlor

[dawei]

This is just my observation....  

 

the OP question is long over due for a focused discussion... but after 60+ replies, I cannot really find anyone giving a direct answer which is really quite odd given this is a discussion forum about practices and cultivation...

 

A few give teasing and interesting points and by large very interesting overall but regard completely different topic ideas.  I find several points mentioned that could stand as their own topic. 

 

That being said, Seeker can decide if he wants this to just remain all intact as-is...   and carry on as I would just continue the discussion as you want to comment...

[Daeluin]

 

Have you read my quotes?

 

 

It deals with the three passes merely as a side-effect.

 

Yes, I have read, and I pretty much agree with what you are saying in your first post in this thread regarding there being one method that accomplishes everything.

 

Let's see:

 

From beginning to end, the great medicine depends on one thing: the metal in the midst of the water, that is, the lead in the water-region. ... Then with both eyes one illumines the Palace of Kan (Water) ☵. Wherever the Golden Flower goes, true Yang comes forth in response. ... Thus the yang energy of the trigram Kan (Water) ☵ leaps upward.

 

From beginning to end, to me means that this is a fundamental key to the process. Next we are told how this key works - by illuminating the palace of water (lower dan tien), causing the yang energy within the trigram of water to leap upward.

 

You are welcome to disagree here, but to me this is saying that the ming energy is the fuel for the entire process - if one stops turning around the light to the palace of water, the merging of xing and ming ceases and the yang energy within the trigram of water no longer emerges. Thus the 3 passes are not used only in passing.

 

To me the instruction of turning around the light for 100 days is important because this allows the ming to replenish. It is generally accepted that it takes around 3 months for the jing to replenish when it is not being consumed.

 

Thus it does make sense to me for teachers to offer students methods for replenishing ming. Even though xing is the method, it still relies on ming for fuel from beginning to end. If there is no ming, it needs to be replenished - which of course one may do simply through waiting for it to replenish. Of course the older one gets the less quickly it seems to replenish.

 

To me these are important distinctions, separating this method from methods that ignore ming altogether.

 

As to why people utilize different methods when they could use this one - I figure the different methods all have their own strengths. Also people have different energetic makeups. Some have more water, some have more fire. Those with more water might have more difficulty with xing techniques until they are able to deal with the ming, and vice versa. In my own work, I do not have strong fire, and believe I stumbled onto one of the ming techniques at one point, even though I am instructed in the secret of the golden flower method.

[Taoist Texts]

Nope, it doesn't. It says that Ming must be transmitted = inherited and I surely agree with that!

Wells is on to something here. As to the quote, yes, it does seem to say that " Ming must be transmitted " except it does not necessarily say it.

 

Those who cite ZSF words do not quite understand this phrase, otherwise they would know that ZSF himself is quoting somebody else. If they would have done their homework and understood the quote, they would quote the original author.

[Bindi]

From a very practical perspective, this is Medical Chi Kung's take on Yuan Qi:

 

 

The Lower Dantian is often called "the Sea of Chi (Qi)." It is the place where Chi (Qi) is housed, the Mingmen Fire is aroused, the Kidney Yin and Yang Chi (Qi) are gathered, and the Yuan Qi is stored. Also called Source Chi (Qi) or Original Chi (Qi), the Yuan Qi is the foundation of all the other types of Chi (Qi) in the body. The Yuan Qi is closely linked with the Prenatal Essence (Yuan Jing). Together, the Yuan Qi and Yuan Jing determine our overall health, vitality, stamina, and life span.

The Yuan Qi is the force behind the activity of all the organs and energies in the body. It is closely related to the Mingmen and works to provide body heat. The body's Yuan Qi is the catalytic agent for transforming the food we eat and the air we breathe into Postnatal Chi (Qi). It also facilitates the production of Blood.

Yuan Qi is housed in the Lower Dantian, and flows to all the internal organs and channels via the Triple Burners. Yuan Qi is said to enter the Twelve Primary Channels (the body's twelve major energy pathways) through the Yuan points (sometimes called Source points) in acupuncture theory.

...

 

In ancient China, the concept of an individual's Virtue (De) and his or her Destiny (Ming) were closely connected. Destiny (associated with the Yuan Jing, Chi (Qi) and Shen) was given by Heaven at birth and stored away in the individual's Mingmen area between the Kidneys. The individual's Ming becomes the spark of life and the dynamic potential existing behind his or her thoughts and actions. Although the subtle impulses emanating from the individual's Ming are generally hidden from the conscious mind, through Meditations a deeper realm of understanding can be intuitively discovered and accessed.

It is up to the individual to consistently act in accordance with his or her Ming throughout life. This action is based on the individual's conscious use of his or her Intention (Yi). The intention to remain congruent with the "Will and Intent of Heaven" (Zhi Yi Tian) is what gives the individual Virtue (De). It is through the development of his or her Virtue that the individual establishes a healthy relationship with the Dao, Heaven and the spiritual world.

The Mingrnen is the root of Yuan Qi, and therefore determines life and death. The Mingmen provides one third of the body's "True Fire," supplies the heat for the Triple Burners, and is responsible for stabilizing the Kidneys and Lower Dantian. This anatomical area is sometimes known as the Back Dantian, or the back gate of the Second Chakra.

...

 

All Chi Kung training begins with a focus on the Lower Dantian. In the beginning stages of Medical Chi Kung training, the doctor will encourage students to focus their mind and breath into the Lower Dantian. The purpose of this training is to gather the body's Yuan Qi into the Lower Dantian (called "returning to the source") to strengthen the foundational root of the body's energy.

Medical Chi Kung practitioners strive to gather and balance the Yin and Yang energy within the Lower Dantian. In ancient China, the union of Yin and Yang energy within the Lower Dantian was called "Dragon and Tiger swirling in the winding river." The ancient Daoist shamans believed that the "vital essence spirit" always appears in a bright white light energy within the Lower Dantian.

It is dangerous for Medical Chi Kung students to bypass the discipline of Lower Dantian cultivation training in an attempt to move quickly into the more advanced intuitive and psychic training of the Upper Dantian (Shen Kung). Such an approach to training may lead to Chi (Qi) deviations and cause emotional instability.

 

http://ichikung.com/html/dantians.php

[Wells]

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Edited March 2, 2017 by Wells

[Aetherous]

Ming means life or destiny. All living people have it.

[Taoist Texts]

This is just my observation....  the OP question is long over due for a focused discussion... but after 60+ replies, I cannot really find anyone giving a direct answer which is really quite odd 

 

Yes, which is a proof that Ming cultivation does not exist as a separate exercise.

[Wells]

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Edited March 2, 2017 by Wells

[Aetherous]

I was talking about Ming as the concrete alchemical substance,

I was not talking about Ming as the abstraction of your life or your destiny.

Or do you think that your life or your destiny are in your kidneys?

 

It could be thought that ming is the same as Kidney jing, because that represents our lifespan (provided we don't die of other causes).

[Wells]

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Edited March 2, 2017 by Wells

[Aetherous]

What if your spleen jing runs out first? Or your lung jing?

 

That would affect the lifespan, too, because the system is sick...but those aren't considered to be the direct measure of lifespan. Also, I think we'd call those things 'spleen yin' and 'lung yin' in modern times.

[Wells]

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Edited March 2, 2017 by Wells

[Aetherous]

Concepts and understandings of TCM and taoist alchemy are not interchangeable and shouldn't be mixed up.

It's like people equating the three tantiens with the triple burner

or like people equating the central channel with the chong mai.

Actually, the two have been intertwined throughout Chinese history.

 

The idea of ming (life/destiny) being Kidney jing (which includes prenatal jing) is the same concept that the Russian school believes in.

[Daeluin]

None of the russians have clearly defined what Ming actually is in alchemic terms in the opinion of their school and therefore it wasn't the point of discussion so far.

Therefore different people in this thread have completely different opinions and talk at cross purposes.

I personally see evidence that Ming doesn't exist anymore in the postcelestial individual

and that it has to be not just replenished but instead it has to be recreated by re-fusing water chi from the kidneys with fire chi from the heart or solar plexus plus most likely the chis of all other organs.

Precelestial Ming originally split up completely into the postcelestial chis of all the organs.

The assumption that water chi in the kidney region is actually Ming is surely a mistaken one.

As it is the assumption that fire chi in the heart or solar plexus is Xing.

 

The method of recreation described above, of course, is the inferior way. The superior way takes care of this problem differently and more elegantly.

 

Thank you very much for this sharing. Liu Yiming in his xiuzhen houbian shares some ideas concerning the precelestial and postcelestial xing and ming. In terms of the ming, he says the postcelestial ming is the destiny granted by heaven, while the precelestial ming is the breath of dao - the metal hidden within water.

 

If the water is worked with without extracting the true yang within it, then yes this would seem to be a postcelestial practice, I agree. The key seems to be in extraction - it feels to me like the re-creation you are speaking of is the work to extract it after it is replenished. I don't mean to split hairs with you, it seems we are more or less agreeing aside from terminology.

 

It could be thought that ming is the same as Kidney jing, because that represents our lifespan (provided we don't die of other causes).

 

What if your spleen jing runs out first? Or your lung jing?

 

The idea is that the precelestial jing emerges at mingmen to become the postcelestial jing - they are connected. From here, the postcelestial jing may fuel the reproductive areas, but otherwise transforms to yuan qi to fuel the organ systems. So when one drinks too much alcohol and taxes the liver qi, the liver qi is still dependent on being refueled by the qi that comes from the area of the kidneys, as is the whole organ system. So drinking alcohol also drains the jing, as does smoking pot, drinking coffee, etc.

 

This dependency may be lessened by breathing air, consuming food, and doing qigong, but largely it is the yuan qi that comes from mingmen which determines the lifespan, assuming one is not able to replenish yuan qi and kidney jing through condensing the energy one receives from external sources. Also, there are different opinions emerging these days which say the heart kidney relationship operates more like a valve which we lose the strength to operate as we age, rather than there being a fixed amount that cannot be replenished or reinvigorated.

 

Concepts and understandings of TCM and taoist alchemy are not interchangeable and shouldn't be mixed up.

It's like people equating the three tantiens with the triple burner

or like people equating the central channel with the chong mai.

 

One studies the more postcelestial manifestation of qi, while the other works with the more precelestial realm. TCM is much more superficial than Classical Chinese Medicine, which includes many more layers, including ones which operate in the precelestial layer. Even then there must be awareness and distinction made when there is a momentum toward creation as opposed to reversal. It is likely difficult, requiring clear and comprehensive understanding, but they share the same root.

[Wells]

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Edited March 2, 2017 by Wells

[Daeluin]

No.

Practice with postcelestial kan (water) and postcelestial li (fire) is a postcelestial practice (fire path).

Practice with precelestial kun (earth) and precelestial qian (heaven) is a precelestial practice (water path).

 

Well, it sounds like you have what is clear to you, and what works for you. I'm glad for this.

 

 

 

The metal/lead found in water, and the mercury found in fire, are the central lines of the trigrams for water: kan ☵, and fire: li ☲. Fire and water represent the nozzles of creation, where the precelestial is manifested into the postcelestial.

 

A main idea in neidan is to extract and exchange the middle of each with the outer of the other, so that kan and li return to the precelestial dynamic of heaven ☰ and earth ☷, and then to work with these energies.

 

I believe the very definition of a neidan method is to accomplish this, even though it may be done using different techniques, regardless of whether the method starts with water or fire. Different techniques may emphasize different parts of this process depending on what is needed. Using the postcelestial to replenish precelestial ingredients is vitally important in some cases.

 

 

[johndoe2012]

Reason why you need ming while doing xing practice is that you need energy to transform matter.

 

Matter in this case are blockages in the energy body.

 

There is no need for fancy or mystical language to convey a simple process.

[Ormus]

Ming Gong is important and it come from Nanzong Pai of Master Zhang Boduan.Quanzhen didnt have it as full transmission and because of this they worked Xing Gong.Much later Quanzhen invented their evrsion of Ming Gong and say that you need to work first Xing and with realisation of it ming is accomplished.This state foudner Master Wang Chongyang and also Master Ma Danyang founder of Yu Xian Pai.What is strange Master Wang in early Quazhen writing dont mention Nei Dan and along with Jing and Qi he mentions blood and not Shen.From it is clear that he didnt have full transmission and he totaly neglected Nei Dan and also Wai Dan as was the case of Longmen Pai Patriarch Master Wang Changyue who in reality created modern Longmen Pai(I hear that he is one of the Masters of Master Wu Shouyang putative founder of Wu Liu Pai).Master Wang Changyou infused Buddhism in Longmen and modeled it on Vinaya linage with 3 Vechiles and much precepts.How he then passed Nei Dan and Wai Dan is realy big mystery and contradition from official documents of Longmen Pai as Monica Esposito uncovered.

 

Secret of the Golden Flower belong precisluy to Jing Ming Dao school and is recived by spirit writing-planchette.Much later Longmen Pai revised and start to claim it is their books because Master Lu Dong Bin is one of the founding fathers and Patriarch of lineage.This book say it is complete and advocate Xing Gong and when you realised it you got Ming Gong int his moment.But we must to know that this book have 6 versions and some are so diferent,who knows how original looked like.

 

There is one Qi Gong method which have real Ming Gong and it is Zhi Neng Qi Gong.Master Pang Ming recived secret Ming Gong and incorporated it in his system but never metion it as such.It is easy and realy powerfull.

 

Ormus

[SeekerOfHealing]

Cool, everybody talking about Ming Gong and some are quality posts but they are far from the intention of this thread. No stages, no practices and no anything. We are talking horns of a rabbit. 

 

Anybody here practice ming gong (which means replenishing yuan qi?) And yes yuan qi will not make you immortal as physical immortal. 

[johndoe2012]

Ming Gong is important and it come from Nanzong Pai of Master Zhang Boduan.Quanzhen didnt have it as full transmission and because of this they worked Xing Gong.Much later Quanzhen invented their evrsion of Ming Gong and say that you need to work first Xing and with realisation of it ming is accomplished.This state foudner Master Wang Chongyang and also Master Ma Danyang founder of Yu Xian Pai.What is strange Master Wang in early Quazhen writing dont mention Nei Dan and along with Jing and Qi he mentions blood and not Shen.From it is clear that he didnt have full transmission and he totaly neglected Nei Dan and also Wai Dan as was the case of Longmen Pai Patriarch Master Wang Changyue who in reality created modern Longmen Pai(I hear that he is one of the Masters of Master Wu Shouyang putative founder of Wu Liu Pai).Master Wang Changyou infused Buddhism in Longmen and modeled it on Vinaya linage with 3 Vechiles and much precepts.How he then passed Nei Dan and Wai Dan is realy big mystery and contradition from official documents of Longmen Pai as Monica Esposito uncovered.

 

Secret of the Golden Flower belong precisluy to Jing Ming Dao school and is recived by spirit writing-planchette.Much later Longmen Pai revised and start to claim it is their books because Master Lu Dong Bin is one of the founding fathers and Patriarch of lineage.This book say it is complete and advocate Xing Gong and when you realised it you got Ming Gong int his moment.But we must to know that this book have 6 versions and some are so diferent,who knows how original looked like.

 

There is one Qi Gong method which have real Ming Gong and it is Zhi Neng Qi Gong.Master Pang Ming recived secret Ming Gong and incorporated it in his system but never metion it as such.It is easy and realy powerfull.

 

Ormus

How do you know ming from the ordinary sensations that qi is known for?

 

How do you tell Zhi neng qi gong has ming?

[Taoist Texts]

Cool, everybody talking about Ming Gong and some are quality posts but they are far from the intention of this thread. No stages, no practices and no anything. 

Yes, gosh i wonder why?

 

We are talking horns of a rabbit. 

 

 

Incidentally 'a hare growing horns' is a metaphor for a breakthrough accomplishment in Quanzhen.

 

 

 

Anybody here practice ming gong (which means replenishing yuan qi?) 

 

 

 

Apparently Ming Gong  could be too much of a good thing;)

 

 

 

彼世之山精水怪，能化人形，命功亦云极矣，但出而观玩，见可欲则贪，见可畏则惧，甚至做出不仁不义、无廉无耻事来，所以终遭诛戮而莫能逃者，皆由少炼性之工耳。吾师教人必以明心见性为先务者，正谓此也。诸子知之否乎？

 

In the world, there are the mountain ghosts and the water spirits, who can shift shapes into a human form, their Ming Gong is ultimate.

 

However when they come out   to enjoy the view, when they see something desirable – they become greedy, when they see something scary – they become afraid, even to the point of doing something inhumane or undutiful, without shame or honor.

 

That is why they eventually get executed, not being able to save themselves, all because they did not train Xing enough. 

 

/黃元吉/