How to distinguish a teacher is true or not?

[thursday]

Observing the damage in myself, there is still a lot of work to do..

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USR3bX_PtU4 [One of Us - Joan Osborne]

Edited February 10, 2017 by thursday

[sillybearhappyhoneyeater]

you said it should take several years to open 玄關, but Huang Yuanji even put it in his first chapter.  Xuan Guan is the basic level of Huang Yuanji's idea, it should be easy for most students to open it within a year.  If they are really serious, they can do it in a month or two.   This is not a high level idea, it is the most basic idea.   I agree that most people don't have the basic, so their practice cannot move past the "External" stage.

[dionysiac]

One theme I tend to follow is if the "teacher" is asking for money then I take any guidance with a grain of salt. Teachers with systems that only they can decipher seem suspect.

 

What teacher who takes money will ever admit that their wisdom is free to anyone who listens? 

[thursday]

I don't know.. It's often been said that requiring things to be for free stems from an entitlement issue/attitude. I can see how that is true for many things, but I can also see how giving large amounts of money for teachings may make someone feel confused and question the teachings, even if they are logical and seem like the ideal thing to follow through on..

[Jonesboy]

To me a true Teacher is one who's presence alone can help move the student along. By presence I mean on who doesn't need to give meditation or pranayama techniques to help others experience deeper states of being.

[dionysiac]

I don't know.. It's often been said that requiring things to be for free stems from an entitlement issue/attitude. I can see how that is true for many things, but I can also see how giving large amounts of money for teachings may make someone feel confused and question the teachings, even if they are logical and seem like the ideal thing to follow through on..

It gets muddy quickly huh?

 

It's not the money transfer itself, it is the problem with being able to assess someones true motives without being a mind reader. The only way to be sure is to eliminate the money aspect altogether. Requesting donations and not a fee seems to help with this issue.

[Fa Xin]

One theme I tend to follow is if the "teacher" is asking for money then I take any guidance with a grain of salt. Teachers with systems that only they can decipher seem suspect.

 

What teacher who takes money will ever admit that their wisdom is free to anyone who listens?

Teachers are people too though, they must buy clothes, food and a house.

 

The amount of money is a big thing for me...

[dionysiac]

Teachers are people too though, they must buy clothes, food and a house.

 

The amount of money is a big thing for me...

That is the most common retort by so called Taoists that sell exorcisms and related "services". I guess I would suggest that someone get a job or create something to sell in order to buy clothes and food. Sell art. Sell woodcrafts. Cultivate vegetables to sell etc. Nothing corrupt about any of that (maybe art heh).

 

The fact that requesting money casts doubt on your teachings is in itself a reason NOT to accept money, if only out of respect for your tradition. To not give any impression of corruption protects the integrity of your teachings. 

 

Since the topic is about how to distinguish between charlatans and true teachers how would you discern the true intentions of a teacher? There is a long history of scam artists and cult leaders using VERY persuasive methods to convince followers of their truth so what makes you think that you could tell the difference? 

 

 

"Do not race after riches, do not risk your life for success, or you will

let slip the Heaven within you."

 

Taoism. Chuang Tzu 29

Edited February 8, 2017 by dionysiac

[Mudfoot]

And then again, a professional teacher might be spending more time and putting more effort in the practice than a farmer or craftsman would do, thus having more to teach. But needing an income.

Even monasterys and hermits often had patrons supporting them.

[awaken]

And then again, a professional teacher might be spending more time and putting more effort in the practice than a farmer or craftsman would do, thus having more to teach. But needing an income.

Even monasterys and hermits often had patrons supporting them.

I have a friend. When he was young , he was a professional teacher.

 

And he was supported. He didn't need to work.

 

People gave him money.

 

But now he works.

 

I ask him why you don't want these support money?

 

He just Shake his head and say a simple sentence.

 

For pure soul

 

 

He don't like to take things free from others.

 

He believes karma.

 

 

 

He often said he has the ability to earn money.

 

At first, I don't know why he said that often.

 

Recently, I visited him.

 

He finally told me that he was a teacher before.

 

Many people came to temple to see him and give him a lot of money.

 

He don't like to talk too much about that.

 

I have known him for many years.

 

I know he is special.

 

But I don't know how special he is.

 

I have heard from other friend that people visit him and kneel to worship him.

 

Obviously, these people treat him as an immortal.

Edited February 8, 2017 by awaken

[Mudfoot]

He was a teacher. Does that mean he stopped teaching, or teaches less then before?

 

If a good teacher stops teaching because of this, is that not a loss for the society?

[awaken]

He was a teacher. Does that mean he stopped teaching, or teaches less then before?

If a good teacher stops teaching because of this, is that not a loss for the society?

He teach of course.

 

But he choose students.

 

And he don't like students call him teacher.

 

Ha, I choose students, too.

 

I don't teach the people I don't like or too blind.

 

I think my students are very wise.

 

They are very smart to recognize what is important.

 

 

 

I just teach wu Wei.

 

But this friend, he don't teach like me, he teach by energy.

 

He doesn't say too much.

 

But he did something to increase your energy.

 

His teaching is very special.

 

 

He know the process of immortal.

 

But if I don't have the experience there, he won't tell me anything about it.

Edited February 8, 2017 by awaken

[thursday]

It gets muddy quickly huh?

 

It's not the money transfer itself, it is the problem with being able to assess someones true motives without being a mind reader. The only way to be sure is to eliminate the money aspect altogether. Requesting donations and not a fee seems to help with this issue.

 

Sure, if you're a teacher, you can eliminate the money aspect and just agree for yourself that donations from students are good enough. As a student I could only politely try to inquire a potential teacher for help if I can't afford things at the normal rate. "Mind reading" seems like a difficult ability to get under control, so until then a good teacher to me would be open to common decency in normal language.. It may still be difficult to really trust though.. Everyone willing to be a student has got to figure things out themselves and make it happen too..

[dionysiac]

And then again, a professional teacher might be spending more time and putting more effort in the practice than a farmer or craftsman would do, thus having more to teach. But needing an income.

Even monasterys and hermits often had patrons supporting them.

Exactly. That is the beauty of the monastic tradition which is the only way I have ever seen this issue somewhat resolved.

 

It's a social contract that is hard to create in the modern world. The lay people must work to survive which means that they do not have the ability to dive deep into spiritual thought. So then a class of monks is created so that some members of their society can devote their lives to spiritual development. A lot of trust is needed since the monks depend on the charity of the lay people to survive and the lay people depend on the monks to guide them spiritually. And when monks grow old and sick there is a stable structure that supports them within the monastery. This works well if everyone stays honest and true but there are many historical instances of corrupt institutions. It still seems like the best option though. 

 

The issue is that in modern society we are so disconnected from one another that this social contract has been broken but not replaced. I do also see a major difference between monastic teachers vs retail, everyday teachers.

[damdao]

(...)

 

The issue is that in modern society we are so disconnected from one another that this social contract has been broken but not replaced. I do also see a major difference between monastic teachers vs retail, everyday teachers.

 

One very important issue is that today, lay people can devote to education and spiritual cultivation, so there is no need of a monastic "elite" proper of mediaeval ages.

[JohnC]

Everyone is a 'true' teacher. It depends upon whether the teacher lines up with what you are looking for. 'True' for one is false for another.

 

Pick wisely though, as you will move toward what your teacher is.

 

John

[exorcist_1699]

From Taoist criteria, the understanding and capability of opening the " Magic gateway " ,  at least its preceding stage  " Embryonic breathing " ,  is how we judge whether a person  be qualified enough to be a  real teacher or not . If he can't explicate it clearly, or being ambiguous , then no matter how vividly he boast of his 3-eye abilities, about what light , heat, image.. he can see , is unreliable because  no matter how clever  and imaginative  an  insane guy is , there is no way for him to  describe to  you what the Magic gateway is.

 

He should also be plain enough  to tell you what a mindless Mind's relation to the Magic gateway .., provided that he is eager to .

Edited February 16, 2017 by exorcist_1699

[JohnC]

Your meaning of 'true' allows for a changing fact or reality.

 

True.

 

 

"True teacher," from my perspective means "true as according to the reality and conscience of the Tao." If we delve deep enough and long enough into the mystery of Tao, we can discover that the Tao's truth is absolute. 

 

I respect your different viewpoint.... and cheekily think it proves mine .

 

Ultimately, my point is that everyone has different destiny, thus a different master. What is true and best for them, is not true and best for you.

 

John