What are the tell tale signs of a spirit presence?

[Edward M]

Anyone able to provide examples please?  how to tell friendly from enemy? 

 

Thanks,

Edward

[centertime]

Reading the ghost literature.... getting cold....   locally ...Which could mean energy is leaking into another dimension..

No personal experience in the matter. If anyone can confirm that?

[C T]

Are you being harassed?

[Edward M]

I'm not sure, but probably... feeling cold and shivers, and an energy i described in the other thread as a peaceful energy, but i get tired and want to sleep as well as being unable to focus.

Edited January 21, 2017 by Edward M

[dawei]

For me... energy first moves.... and then my head gets warm...  and then I go flush...  and I realize my heart energy is expanding...

[Edward M]

energy moves im familiar with, it starts the body moving as well and feels cold at same time...  i usually get cool/cold chest and expansion .. right now its suddenly become very warm, my chest that is..  head ache as well now

[dwai]

just ignore. they don't have any power over us...if we don't give them any attention.

[Edward M]

Thanks

[Aetherous]

I read once on the forum someone from a Sufi order saying that negative spirits will try to enter your body, whereas positive ones won't ever infringe...which speaks volumes on the subject of mediums.

Coincidentally, my only experience with that was when viewing the picture of a totally unrelated Sufi master, it seemed like he had a spirit that tried to enter me through my lower body...which was strange because as a Sufi I think he was supposed to be good?

Really don't have much experience personally, except that contact with positive ones seems beneficial spiritually, and in line with karmic laws...and on the flip side, if you're ever in a very negative and prolonged state of emotions, shadow beings may show up. You can literally start seeing dark movements in your vision, for instance if walking in the evening. That's a time to realize that you've got to stop cultivating negative emotions and thoughts, and focus on very good things. Which should be all of the time, but hey, we're human and have both dark and light to deal with within.

Also, ghosts would be classified under the "negative" side of things...despite being non-malicious, they aren't good for humans to be around. It's pretty obvious when you're actually sharing space with a ghost...you get spooked. Just my very limited experience with this stuff.

Edited January 21, 2017 by Aetherous

[Edward M]

Thanks! cultivating positive emotions is something ive definitely got to work on more.. thanks!

[Edward M]

dont want to say to much, but may well have had trouble with shadow beings in the past... not nice, my cat at the time used to sleep on my bed, and she would sense what i was sensing, and she looked very very scared!   wasn't a good time..

 

right now, this feels very different, even positive compared to back then..    

[Aetherous]

It's also good to just banish them/it, which is as simple as telling them to leave and meaning it. Done and done...it's that simple.

Sometimes clapping loudly, or turning on bright lights while instructing them to be gone, adds that extra bit of efficacy. How can yin beings exist in a brightly lit room? IME, they don't. Perhaps instead of any mysterious reasons, it mostly has to do with our own minds.

Just my view...getting religious helps. Bad spirits flee from holiness and goodness, which like a torch dispels darkness. If good spirits are around, which are attracted to positive and goodness, they keep away the bad ones so that you don't have to.

Courage...the inner knowing that you can face anything...also acts like that torch.

Best to not intentionally invite spirits, good or bad.

Anyway...like I said, I'm not that experienced and could be wrong about some things. Best of luck.

Edited January 21, 2017 by Aetherous

[Edward M]

Thanks!    i'm i a brightly lit room, so perhaps my own mind! but i do feel energy flowing downwards over me, i assumed it was a spirit hovering over me..  

 

Thanks again, gotta make a move now..  cheers

[Spotless]

The good and bad thing is really not the case. Lower forms do not know much of what they are doing and are simply attracted to certain energies. Higher forms are not interested in mucking about.

 

If you resist this type of thing then you attract it. If you play with trance states and poor diet you attract it.

Christianity and many other religions teach attraction to some of the most gastly vomit by teaching resistance to it and fear of it and false salvation from it - they are addicted to teaching some of the most disgusting garbage humans consume daily.

 

It is good advice to give it no due.

 

However, good diet, a grounding grounded lifestyle and low trance inducement will rid you completely of these unaware automatons.

[Edward M]

Thanks! i'll take that advice, resistance to anything is a trap along the path, i keep falling into! 

 

you mention trance states.. would you say automatic behaviours that you aren't fully aware of and have trouble stopping are under the trance state banner?   ive walked around my room in circles since i was a very young child, i dont realise i'm doing it a lot of the time, its semi unconscious behaviour..    also happens to be when i have the most realisations..  

 

Thanks,

Edward

Edited January 22, 2017 by Edward M

[Spotless]

The most powerful of these "beings" is little more than a pebble on a beach.

[Spotless]

Thanks! i'll take that advice, resistance to anything is a trap along the path, i keep falling into! 

 

you mention trance states.. would you say automatic behaviours that you aren't fully aware of and have trouble stopping are under the trance state banner?   ive walked around my room in circles since i was a very young child, i dont realise i'm doing it a lot of the time, its semi unconscious behaviour..    also happens to be when i have the most realisations..  

 

Thanks,

Edward

Yes

You see well and can have this without trance

[daomon]

If you are getting cold, it's time to turn the heat up!

[Gerard]

There are spirits everywhere! They are all within you, the same as the rest of what constitutes reality, including the highest realm: nirvana.

 

The question is: what am I doing to get to this realisation? Waiting seated on my couch patiently until this occurs or working hard and with determination like our friend the Zen monk:

 

 

This is what matters the most, how nicely worn out are your practising shoes.

 

Blessings and practice hard but always smiling!

[Edward M]

Thanks for the reminder Gerard!  Reality is not letting me get away with my usual nonsense at the moment, change is making its presence felt!  

 

Thanks again to all who have contributed over the past few days, peace to you all

 

Edward

[Nungali]

energy moves im familiar with, it starts the body moving as well and feels cold at same time...  i usually get cool/cold chest and expansion .. right now its suddenly become very warm, my chest that is..  head ache as well now

 

Doesnt sound like any 'spirit presence'  ... whatever that means .....   to me  .

 

The usual signs  ( and related to many other unusual perceived phenomena )  are 'gooseflesh'  'hair standing up'  etc .  Unless its a case of mistaken  observation . 

[Nungali]

dont want to say to much, but may well have had trouble with shadow beings in the past... not nice, my cat at the time used to sleep on my bed, and she would sense what i was sensing, and she looked very very scared!   wasn't a good time..

 

right now, this feels very different, even positive compared to back then..    

 

The best way .... if you have some clarity ..... is fairly obvious 'feels good' is important .

 

Good 'spirits' lead to good things and bad to bad .  

 

here is Dr VanDusen on the subject 

 

" In my dialogues with patients I learned of two orders of experience, borrowing from the voices themselves, called the higher and the lower order.

 

" Lower order voices are as though one is dealing with drunken bums at a bar who like to tease and torment just for the fun of it. They will suggest lewd acts and then scold the patient for considering them. They find a weak point of conscience and work on it interminably. For instance one man heard voices teasing him for three years over a ten-cent debt he had already paid. They call the patient every conceivable name, suggest every lewd act, steal memories or ideas right out of consciousness, threaten death, and work on the patient's credibility in every way. For instance they will brag that they will produce some disaster on the morrow and then claim honor for one in the daily paper. They suggest foolish acts (such as: Raise your right hand in the air and stay that way) and tease if he does it and threaten him if he doesn't. The lower order can work for a long time to possess some part of the patient's body. Several worked on the ear and the patient seemed to grow deafer. One voice worked two years to capture a patient's eye which visibly went out of alignment. Many patients have heard loud and clear voices plotting their death for weeks on end, an apparently nervewracking experience. One patient saw a noose around his neck which tied to "I don't know what" while voices plotted his death by hanging. They threaten pain and can cause felt pain as a way of enforcing their power. The most devastating experience of all is to be shouted at constantly by dozens of voices. When this occurred the patient had to be sedated. The vocabulary and range of ideas of the lower order is limited, but they have a persistent will to destroy. They invade every nook and cranny of privacy, work on every weakness and credibility, claim awesome powers, lie, make promises and then undermine the patient's will. They never have a personal identity though they accept most names or identities given them. They either conceal or have no awareness of personal memories. Though they claim to be separate identities they will reveal no detail that might help to trace them as separate individuals. Their voice quality can change or shift, leaving the patient quite confused as to who might be speaking. When identified as some friend known to the patient they can assume this voice quality perfectly. For convenience many patients call them by nick-names, such as "Fred," The Doctor," or "The Old Timer.” I've heard it said by the higher order that the purpose of the lower order is to illuminate all of the person's weaknesses. They do that admirably and with infinite patience. To make matters worse they hold out promises to patients and even give helpful sounding advice only to catch the patient in some weakness. Even with the patient's help I found the lower order difficult to relate to because of their disdain for me as well as the patient. The limited vocabulary and range of ideas of the lower order is striking. A few ideas can be repeated endlessly. One voice just said "hey" for months while the patient tried to figure out what "hey" or "hay" was meant. Even when I was supposedly speaking to an engineer that a woman heard, the engineer was unable to do any more arithmetic than simple sums and multiplication the woman had memorized. The lower order seems incapable of sequential reasoning. Though they often claim to be in some distant city they cannot report more than the patient sees, hears, or remembers. They seem imprisoned in the lowest level of the patient's mind, giving no real evidence of a personal world or any higher order thinking or experiencing .

 

" All of the lower order are irreligious or anti-religious. Some actively interfered with the patients' religious practices. Most considered them to be ordinary living people, though once they appeared as conventional devils and referred to themselves as demons. In a few instances they referred to themselves as from hell. Occasionally they would speak through the patient so that the patient's voice and speech would be directly those of the voices. Sometimes they acted through the patient. One of my female patients was found going out the hospital gate arguing loudly with her male voice that she didn't want to leave, but he was insisting. Like many, this particular hallucination claimed to be Jesus Christ, but his bragging and argumentativeness rather gave him away as of the lower order. Sometimes the lower order is embedded in physical concerns, such as a lady who was tormented by "experimenters" painfully treating her joints to prevent arthritis. She held out hope they were helping her, though it was apparent to any onlooker they had all but destroyed her life as a free and intelligent person.

 

" In direct contrast stands the rarer higher order hallucinations. In quantity they make up perhaps a fifth or less of the patients' experiences. The contrast may be illustrated by the experience of one man. He had heard the lower order arguing a long while how they would murder him. He also had a light come to him at night like the sun. He knew it was a different order because the light respected his freedom and would withdraw if it frightened him. In contrast, the lower order worked against his will and would attack if it could see fear in him. This rarer higher order seldom speaks, whereas the lower order can talk endlessly. The higher order is much more likely to be symbolic, religious, supportive, genuinely instructive, and communicate directly with the inner feelings of the patient. I've learned to help the patient approach the higher order because of its great power to broaden the individual's values. When the man was encouraged to approach his friendly sun he entered a world of powerful numinous experiences, in some ways more frightening than the murderers who plotted his death. In one scene he found himself at the bottom of a long corridor with doors at the end behind which raged the powers of hell. He was about to let out these powers when a very powerful and impressive Christ-like figure appeared and by direct mind-to-mind communication counseled him to leave the doors closed and follow him into other experiences which were therapeutic to him. In another instance the higher order appeared to a man as a lovely woman who entertained him while showing him thousands of symbols. Though the patient was a high-school educated gaspipe fitter, his female vision showed a knowledge of religion and myth far beyond the patient's comprehension. At the end of a very rich dialogue with her (the patient reporting her symbols and responses) the patient asked for just a clue as to what she and I were talking about. Another example is that of a Negro who gave up being useful and lived as a drunken thief. In his weeks of hallucinations the higher order carefully instructed him on the trials of all minority groups and left him with the feeling he would like to do something for minorities. In general the higher order is richer than the patient's normal experience, respectful of his freedom, helpful, instructive, supportive, highly symbolic and religious. It looks most like Carl Jung's archetypes, whereas the lower order looks like Freud's id. In contrast to the lower order, it thinks in something like universal ideas in ways that are richer and more complex than the patient's own mode of thought. It can be very powerful emotionally and carry with it an almost inexpressible ring of truth. The higher order tends to enlarge a patient's values, something like a very wise and considerate instructor. Some patients experience both the higher and lower orders at various times and feel caught between a private heaven and hell. Many only know the attacks of the lower order. The higher order claims power over the lower order and indeed shows it at times, but not enough to give peace of mind to most patients. The higher order itself has indicated that the usefulness of the lower order is to illustrate and make conscious the patients' weaknesses and faults. "

 

http://www.searchwithin.org/download/presence_spirits.pdf

 

Interestingly, Dr VanDusen has outlined some of the precepts and methods used in magical evocation and invocation .   Such things can be tested  .  

Edited January 26, 2017 by Nungali

[Nungali]

Thanks! i'll take that advice, resistance to anything is a trap along the path, i keep falling into! 

 

you mention trance states.. would you say automatic behaviours that you aren't fully aware of and have trouble stopping are under the trance state banner?   ive walked around my room in circles since i was a very young child, i dont realise i'm doing it a lot of the time, its semi unconscious behaviour..    also happens to be when i have the most realisations..  

 

Thanks,

Edward

 

 

'Circumambulations' can be an important part of ritual  ..... one hope though that they would be  from conscious intent . 

[dawei]

There are spirits everywhere! They are all within you, the same as the rest of what constitutes reality, including the highest realm: nirvana.

 

interesting point from the perspective that everything is interconnected and it is more like curtains being pulled back or the gem polished to re-gain its luster.  

 

I see this in the idea of 'expansion' or expanding...  we see/feel/sense such a small part of life that revolves around 'I', myself... but if we expand past that, we are no longer the center... and if we expand past that, eventually we are but dust blowing in the air.  

 

I often call an experience with a spirit as a 'visit'... either you visit them or they visit you.  But the simple fact is: They are all within.   I think Jeff said somewhere 'the universe is within'.... which does beg many questions

[Nungali]

" It's all in the imagination . "

 

Well ......   my imagination is pretty out there  !