dwai Posted January 25, 2017 http://isha.sadhguru.org/blog/sadhguru/masters-words/what-makes-him-a-guru/ Interesting thoughts here... 6 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kar3n Posted January 25, 2017 Yes, interesting, I am still chewing on it... 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff Posted January 25, 2017 A doorway to something (or someone)? And personality constantly changing, but not "him"? It raises some interesting questions... 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pilgrim Posted January 25, 2017 Pretty simple really. What are you chewing on Kar3n? By the way love the username. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff Posted January 25, 2017 Pretty simple really. What are you chewing on Kar3n? By the way love the username. What is pretty simple? To me, his link/post raises many differentiation points from many traditions... 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3bob Posted January 25, 2017 part coyote method, whatever turns your crank. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pilgrim Posted January 25, 2017 part coyote method, whatever turns your crank. Lol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kar3n Posted January 25, 2017 Pretty simple really. What are you chewing on Kar3n? By the way love the username. "I am crafting a personality that creates enough of both so that their seeking never dies." The need to create or to craft a personality or a way of being is conflicting; if we are truly empty with no attachments there is no need or desire to craft anything, we just are who and what we are, be it a doorway, a guru, or just an average Joe or Jane. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pilgrim Posted January 25, 2017 "I am crafting a personality that creates enough of both so that their seeking never dies." The need to create or to craft a personality or a way of being is conflicting; if we are truly empty with no attachments there is no need or desire to craft anything, we just are who an what we are, be it a doorway, a guru, or just an average Joe or Jane. It does not sound like you are chewing on anything more like you already made up your mind. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kar3n Posted January 25, 2017 It does not sound like you are chewing on anything more like you already made up your mind. I made my initial post almost 4 hours ago. Somethings I have made up my mind on, based on personal experiences and having read various sutras and other texts. Be assured, I am still chewing on some of it. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dwai Posted January 25, 2017 SadGuru is an interesting character...and an unabashed maverick. I found his presentation of "emptiness" very interesting... 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pilgrim Posted January 25, 2017 (edited) Sadhguru: As a person, I am quite terrible. Perfect, Blunt, Stark, truthful, to the point. As a Guru, I am absolutely empty. I am a Guru because my ignorance is totally limitless, and that is all that matters. If something within you becomes limitless – whatever it is – it will work. Cool lets chew together. A person or a personality is a collection of fictions. He is a guru because he releases the fictions. The Guru is nothing to be guru is to be nothing, personalities can not be guru. Guru is everyone but not so long as they demand and insist on having a presence as a person or a personality. Nothing is limitless. Something always has limits it is defined. It has name, it has back story etc... By defining one becomes something, that something is terrible. Personalities and persons are terrible, personality and persons can not stand this. Persons always have needs, and persons will always do what they have to to fulfill them. The most noble vegan is still a murderer. When coming from nothingness to interact with those in something a simulacrum is produced and imbued with qualities for others to interact with. In this case he is telling do not hold onto it because it will change on purpose there is nothing here to hold onto. This is not him because he does not exist. This is true from the point of view of limitless emptiness which is a state of abiding. Limitless emptiness has no likes, dislikes, no preferences etc... it has existence but is existence for its own sake. He has realized this but there is something left that desires to interact with others and help them realize this also. If a person like so many who have realized these states coming from these perspectives flirts around with misbehavior then there realization is adolescent, this is how we receive the stories of the ugly gurus. There have been so many instances and stories they do not need repeated but in every case they are coming from this perspective and that is a common thread. As far as I know this guys track record is clean. Edited January 25, 2017 by Pilgrim 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff Posted January 25, 2017 (edited) I would agree that his description would fit with many classical Hindu views, but his being "nothing" is only a piece of the puzzle in many traditions. Additionally, he is describing being a gateway or channeling some broader being (or thing) and hence describing a dualistic situation both for himself and the person he is being guru to. As the Zen parable describes... First there is a mountain, then no mountain, then there is a mountain again... It would seem to be that Satguru is stating there is only no mountain. Edited January 25, 2017 by Jeff 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dwai Posted January 25, 2017 I would agree that his description would fit with many classical Hindu views, but his being "nothing" is only a piece of the puzzle in many traditions. Additionally, he is describing being a gateway or channeling some broader being (or thing) and hence describing a dualistic situation both for himself and the person he is being guru to. As the Zen parable describes... First there is a mountain, then no mountain, then there is a mountain again... It would seem to be that Satguru is stating there is only no mountain. In his system, Shiva is the primary deity, and is called Adiyogi - The Primordial Yogi. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pilgrim Posted January 25, 2017 I agree being nothing is only a piece of the puzzle. In this instance it is impossible to be anything but dualistic. Make that multifaceted. He has physical form a body. The body of those who know not, has presence and personality by genetic inheritance, what we are, is in symbiotic relationship with these bodies we inhabit. This body is in symbiotic relationship with the microbes in it's guts which have affinities, and this continues down into the microscopic and beyond. These bodies have there own mind. Without the dweller within though these bodies decompose as the animating principle is not sufficiently developed without the dweller within symbiotic participation. In this manner the younger and the older serve one another in lifetimes and mutually advance. Your human body mind is young, the dweller within is older. At some point the dweller within recognizes this or wakes up from the blending and the blending of so many fellow symbiotic minds or sub-minds holds sway less and less. Different yogic practices can accelerate this. I am certain non yogic traditions have this component as well. They also lead to personality changes. In time one realizes personality which changes is also impermanent and so the question who am I arises and with it the condition of limitless emptiness. The dissolution of the "I" This has been reported to happen all at once but mostly it happens in stages and degrees. Like Jeff said a piece in the puzzle of different traditions. It is universal. What he is describing has no choice but to be dualistic. Being of dualistic nature of still being within human form while the dweller within develops into nothingness, emptiness of limitlessness which the I has to dissolve to a certain extent before this can happen makes one a type of tuning fork for this and others tune in by his continuing presence and even remote presence as I am certain many feel the personality he chooses to fabricate is the scent of the flower. In this case he is a fisherman of souls tugging the line. The question is why? What is the motivation? Perhaps this is just the way it works by design, one pays it forwards to continue on. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff Posted January 25, 2017 In his system, Shiva is the primary deity, and is called Adiyogi - The Primordial Yogi. Yes, and he is describing himself as separate (or a gateway) from Shiva. Where compariably in Kashmir Shaivism, a guru is Shiva himself. Or you could say that one goes from the realization of Jiva, to more fully realize Shiva. Also, I am not trying to disagree with him. Just pointing out that he is describing something different than what you would find in Buddhism, Kashmir Shaivism, Taoism and Mystical Christianity. Which is why I questioned the "simple" post earlier. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dwai Posted January 25, 2017 I agree being nothing is only a piece of the puzzle. In this instance it is impossible to be anything but dualistic. Make that multifaceted. He has physical form a body. The body of those who know not, has presence and personality by genetic inheritance, what we are, is in symbiotic relationship with these bodies we inhabit. This body is in symbiotic relationship with the microbes in it's guts which have affinities, and this continues down into the microscopic and beyond. These bodies have there own mind. Without the dweller within though these bodies decompose as the animating principle is not sufficiently developed without the dweller within symbiotic participation. In this manner the younger and the older serve one another in lifetimes and mutually advance. Your human body mind is young, the dweller within is older. At some point the dweller within recognizes this or wakes up from the blending and the blending of so many fellow symbiotic minds or sub-minds holds sway less and less. Different yogic practices can accelerate this. I am certain non yogic traditions have this component as well. They also lead to personality changes. In time one realizes personality which changes is also impermanent and so the question who am I arises and with it the condition of limitless emptiness. The dissolution of the "I" This has been reported to happen all at once but mostly it happens in stages and degrees. Like Jeff said a piece in the puzzle of different traditions. It is universal. What he is describing has no choice but to be dualistic. Being of dualistic nature of still being within human form while the dweller within develops into nothingness, emptiness of limitlessness which the I has to dissolve to a certain extent before this can happen makes one a type of tuning fork for this and others tune in by his continuing presence and even remote presence as I am certain many feel the personality he chooses to fabricate is the scent of the flower. In this case he is a fisherman of souls tugging the line. The question is why? What is the motivation? Perhaps this is just the way it works by design, one pays it forwards to continue on. The body is one of the limiting adjuncts (upadhi) we have to live with...and the body is in the domain of dualism... https://advaitasadhana.wordpress.com/2014/01/11/what-is-उपाधि-upadhi-limiting-adjunct/ 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dwai Posted January 25, 2017 Yes, and he is describing himself as separate (or a gateway) from Shiva. Where compariably in Kashmir Shaivism, a guru is Shiva himself. Or you could say that one goes from the realization of Jiva, to more fully realize Shiva. Also, I am not trying to disagree with him. Just pointing out that he is describing something different than what you would find in Buddhism, Kashmir Shaivism, Taoism and Mystical Christianity. Which is why I questioned the "simple" post earlier. Before we know it, it is complicated. After we know it, it is simple perhaps? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff Posted January 25, 2017 The body is one of the limiting adjuncts (upadhi) we have to live with...and the body is in the domain of dualism... https://advaitasadhana.wordpress.com/2014/01/11/what-is-उपाधि-upadhi-limiting-adjunct/ Is it? How is a body a limiting factor? If you look deep inside, I think you can find the entire universe in it. Are not the inside and the outside really the same...? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dwai Posted January 25, 2017 Is it? How is a body a limiting factor? If you look deep inside, I think you can find the entire universe in it. Are not the inside and the outside really the same...? Because the body is born and dies...so while we have a body, we have to (most of us at least) live by the rules that govern it's functioning... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff Posted January 25, 2017 Before we know it, it is complicated. After we know it, it is simple perhaps? Guess it depends on what you mean by simple and what you think you know...? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff Posted January 25, 2017 Because the body is born and dies...so while we have a body, we have to (most of us at least) live by the rules that govern it's functioning... I would argue that a body is actually a great potential or opportunity... From the Shiva Sutras... 3.40. abhilāṣādbahirgatiḥ saṁvāhyasya Due to the insatiable and insistent desire to fill the gap (in his nature), his flow and movement are toward the objective world, not subjective consciousness, and so he is carried from one birth to another. 3.41. tadārūḍhapramitestatkṣayājjīva saṁkṣayaḥ All desire vanishes in that fortunate person whose consciousness is established in his own real nature. For him the state of being a limited individual has ended. 3.42. bhūtakañcukī tadā vimukto bhūyaḥ patisamaḥ paraḥ For him, the five elements are only coverings. At that very moment, he is absolutely liberated, supreme and just like Śiva. An opportunity to dive deep and find the pristine clarity "within"... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dawei Posted January 25, 2017 It would seem to be that Satguru is stating there is only no mountain. In first reading... he seems to pose that as a guru, he is no mountain. but being a gateway to a mountain again.. for others... as they find it themselves. Like he "steps out of the way".. for "you to find your way". 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dwai Posted January 25, 2017 (edited) I would argue that a body is actually a great potential or opportunity... From the Shiva Sutras... 3.40. abhilāṣādbahirgatiḥ saṁvāhyasya Due to the insatiable and insistent desire to fill the gap (in his nature), his flow and movement are toward the objective world, not subjective consciousness, and so he is carried from one birth to another. 3.41. tadārūḍhapramitestatkṣayājjīva saṁkṣayaḥ All desire vanishes in that fortunate person whose consciousness is established in his own real nature. For him the state of being a limited individual has ended. 3.42. bhūtakañcukī tadā vimukto bhūyaḥ patisamaḥ paraḥ For him, the five elements are only coverings. At that very moment, he is absolutely liberated, supreme and just like Śiva. An opportunity to dive deep and find the pristine clarity "within"... You see, I view that to be a withdrawal from the external (subject-object world, of which the body is also a part) to internal (subject only world, which is the domain of consciousness). Ultimately yes, the body is also a conceptual object in the consciousness matrix, but relatively it is true..hence a limiting adjunct. For there would be no reason for a relative (one can only conjecture) from the already absolute. This traversal, from unlimited to limited and then back again to unlimited, is the role of the limiting adjunct and also considered in the domain of avidya. Edited January 25, 2017 by dwai 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
