Significance of an event's start time - influence on outcome?

[s1va]

I am a student of vedic astrology among other things.  I was just pondering over the significance of the time that any event starts; or takes birth in universe. Starting time.

 

This is termed as muhurta in vedic astrology.  Many think that muhurta is the time to fix for marriage.  That is just one small aspect of muhurta.  A time that is considered conducive for marriage or union could be totally negative for some other event.  For example: starting a war. Significant importance is given to muhurtha in vedic astrology.  If I understand it right, astrology was (is) not entirely about fortune telling.  This knowledge came about initially to choose conducive time to start worldly activities.  During the vedic time, the major activities were vedic rituals.  Muhurtha is not confined to the timing for rituals described in vedas, it seems to be vast and comprehensive, covering most conceivable actions in the world (positive or negative). Provides guidelines with conducive and non-conducive times for the positive and negative actions.

 

Down the road, sadly astrology turned entirely into fortune telling.  Like everything else, (ex: yoga) it got corrupted over the ages.  There were some greedy people that wanted to make money out of what little intuitive powers they had (if any) to foretell.  Exploiting peoples need or curiosity to know the future events.  Like other fields, people that claim that theirs is the only right method as given by whatever they see as authority.  Many distortions to the teaching, so much to cast doubts on the entire subject.

 

The birth of a person this world is also an event just like any other.  We have control over certain events and we don't have control over certain others.  Some out of ignorance, try to time (these days) even human birth based on their blind beliefs.  They set c-section to happen at certain time.  This just shows how much ignorance they are mired in.   Some things (start of) simply is not in our hands. 

 

Dr. B.V. Raman has given some beautiful worldly examples that can be classified as scientific, to explain, how certain animals behave differently during some lunar phases.  Modern science more or less acknowledges the influence of moon over a person's mind.

 

I strongly believe that at the moment an event starts, or takes birth in this universe, has huge significance on the outcome of the event.  In many ways, some qualified people, with their intuitive powers can tell, to certain extent, how this event will turn out to be, based on the time in which it was started.

 

I could have started this discussion in astrology forums.  There are many.   If I started it there, mostly, all would concur with what I say.  There would be little to discuss from different perspectives.  This is why I started the topic here.  I wanted to see and listen from others here who believe and don't believe.

 

How many of you believe that the moment or time that an event starts in this universe holds significance (if any) ?   If you believe that it holds even some significance,  do you believe by choosing time wisely for events, one can get influence (to certain degree)  the outcome.  Be it positive or negative, based on the time chosen?  For the events which we have the control to chose.

 

I am willing to listen to the opinions from anyone that cares to share their thoughts.  Doesn't matter if you believe in astrology or not, on any spirituality for that matter.  I don't care if you are an agnostic or atheist.  I have some atheist friends who believe that moments or placements of planets (celestial bodies to put it aptly) have certain influence over each other or in the affairs in universe.

Edited January 25, 2017 by Cauvery

[dwai]

I used to practice vedic astrology myself (and have reference B.V. Raman's books). My teacher was my late paternal grandfather, who learnt Astrology (among other things) by sitting at the feet of a sadhu who spent his time meditating in a shmashana (cremation ground).

 

He taught me that there are two aspects to Astrology. One is the calculation part, which is logic. The other is the mystical part, which is really a form of attuning with something greater than ourselves. He was very good at this..and had made many successful and strange predictions (he never charged any money for it and made horoscopes and predictions to help friends out). 

 

Not everyone has the gift...and I feel it is genetically transmitted. My dad had it. My sister has it. I have it (though I don't exercise it). 

 

I feel the "muhurta" is a point in space-time that we can use as a reference with which to enter the "stream" of happenings (with the intention of making predictions). In my case, it was strange because I'd just know. Some rules had been laid out per the system, but I'd just know what was going to happen.

 

I've not practiced in more than 15 years...and let go of all these when I started my spiritual journey in earnest. These are props and we can't really do anything to alter the wheels that the almighty has set in motion...we can just stop swimming against the stream and flow....

[3bob]

if the need is great an alteration to mechanical forces can take place through divine will, otherwise the divine will is no stronger than said mechanical like forces.

[sagebrush]

I gave birth to my son on a full moon evening. His first word was moon, too. I like that he was born on a full moon. I like too that his first word was moon.

 

WV is one of the last bastions of dark skies in the United states. This is what another new year calendar says created by its creator. Every page is a dynamite image of the night sky and at dynamite locations, many of which I have been too. I can't begin to imagine photography like that,..so for instance it might have time elapsed on the image-so stars are like one big circular swirl.

 

I know little of constellations...maybe a few that I could name and pick in the night sky.

 

It is beautiful to me to take the stars in at night when they are visible.

 

I think we as a culture and this is pure speculation on my thinking -we are not in touch with stars so much. I do believe through out time stars played a major part in the life of people.

 

Don't understand Vedic astrology.

I do not go to fortune tellers.

I do not understand really the basis of the significance of the events.....topic....

 

but I felt the need to chime in that I appreciate stars. I would like to spend more time in the mountains with nothing to do but ponder the night sky.

 

Really though- if you are eluding to something just clearly type it please.

 

This is what I would like to add as well.

It is from my perspective as well that talking can be such a hinderance. it can be annoying at times....typing too is a challenge.

but I must say that for me-I like to be right in the same room with someone communicating.

Although my inner thoughts can still bounce around...I like to see.

 

There is not a million dollar challenge here.

 

the calendar I mention before has many great quotes as well.

here is a good one:

it mentions something regarding the stars have been charted or measure...something to that extent.

but I do not think this is possible to know  all about the entire cosmos..

I do not care who anyone teacher was/is/may be.

 

the wonder is, not that the field of stars is so vast, but that man has measured it." Anatole france

Edited January 26, 2017 by sagebrush

[s1va]

if the need is great an alteration to mechanical forces can take place through divine will, otherwise the divine will is no stronger than said mechanical like forces.

 

I am curious, if you would care to expand on what you mean by mechanical forces.

[s1va]

I used to practice vedic astrology myself (and have reference B.V. Raman's books). My teacher was my late paternal grandfather, who learnt Astrology (among other things) by sitting at the feet of a sadhu who spent his time meditating in a shmashana (cremation ground).

 

He taught me that there are two aspects to Astrology. One is the calculation part, which is logic. The other is the mystical part, which is really a form of attuning with something greater than ourselves. He was very good at this..and had made many successful and strange predictions (he never charged any money for it and made horoscopes and predictions to help friends out). 

 

Not everyone has the gift...and I feel it is genetically transmitted. My dad had it. My sister has it. I have it (though I don't exercise it). 

 

I feel the "muhurta" is a point in space-time that we can use as a reference with which to enter the "stream" of happenings (with the intention of making predictions). In my case, it was strange because I'd just know. Some rules had been laid out per the system, but I'd just know what was going to happen.

 

I've not practiced in more than 15 years...and let go of all these when I started my spiritual journey in earnest. These are props and we can't really do anything to alter the wheels that the almighty has set in motion...we can just stop swimming against the stream and flow....

 

Dwai, your posts are beautiful as always, have some inner meaning for me.  My story goes somewhat similar to yours.  I started learning from the foot steps of my grand father.  Then it was my father.  Then it was a system that my father followed.  Finally until I arrived at my own astrology teacher.  My grand father said some things, which at the time I wouldn't believe.  Looking back, many things panned out more or less the way he foretold.  He learned very little from books.

 

I completely agree that there are two components to this.  Just mere knowledge from books or scriptures will serve no purpose.  If they were to, one can write a program that comes back with rules or predictions.  This is why, science can boldly claim that astrology does not work always.  They fail to see the intuitive part of this.  I don't want to make the claim that I have such intuitive powers.  But, I can say, my friends and some people that consulted with me, strongly believe that there is some value to my words, when it comes to astrology.  They trust my words more than that I would trust them.  I always caution them, not to get carried away.

 

There were periods, when I did not believe on anything.  So, astrology also went away with that.  Then the interest always comes back.   This is part of me.

 

I also felt that this is all useless at various points and got into spirituality at various times.  But, life has taught me again and again, that this is also part of spirituality.  There is a meaning to this also and this is part of my life.  I can't separate it.

 

I concur with you on the point, if some one were to use astrology to make money, or to purely fulfill their needs, the odds are against them.  Whether they fix a time, or try to predict something based on the time  (an event started), they are likely to fail.  Invariably they will be shown that, it does not work that way.

 

On the other hand, if some one is sincere, a full time astrologer as his/her profession,  I don't see anything wrong in them charging a modest fee to make their living in the world we live in today.  This goes back to the same discussion we had on yoga.  People that stand to benefit should have it in them to give, it is not other way around.  If there is greed, whatever the intuitive powers, they quickly disappear, or conversely destroy the person, as the yogic siddhis do.

 

While you shared your experiences, you did not address the question asked on this post.  If you don't want to, that is fine.

[s1va]

I gave birth to my son on a full moon evening. His first word was moon, too. I like that he was born on a full moon. I like too that his first word was moon.

 

WV is one of the last bastions of dark skies in the United states. This is what another new year calendar says created by its creator. Every page is a dynamite image of the night sky and at dynamite locations, many of which I have been too. I can't begin to imagine photography like that,..so for instance it might have time elapsed on the image-so stars are like one big circular swirl.

 

I know little of constellations...maybe a few that I could name and pick in the night sky.

 

It is beautiful to me to take the stars in at night when they are visible.

 

I think we as a culture and this is pure speculation on my thinking -we are not in touch with stars so much. I do believe through out time stars played a major part in the life of people.

 

Don't understand Vedic astrology.

I do not go to fortune tellers.

I do not understand really the basis of the significance of the events.....topic....

 

but I felt the need to chime in that I appreciate stars. I would like to spend more time in the mountains with nothing to do but ponder the night sky.

 

Really though- if you are eluding to something just clearly type it please.

 

This is what I would like to add as well.

It is from my perspective as well that talking can be such a hinderance. it can be annoying at times....typing too is a challenge.

but I must say that for me-I like to be right in the same room with someone communicating.

Although my inner thoughts can still bounce around...I like to see.

 

There is not a million dollar challenge here.

 

the calendar I mention before has many great quotes as well.

here is a good one:

it mentions something regarding the stars have been charted or measure...something to that extent.

but I do not think this is possible to know  all about the entire cosmos..

I do not care who anyone teacher was/is/may be.

 

the wonder is, not that the field of stars is so vast, but that man has measured it." Anatole france

 

I thank you for sharing.  Astrology is not fortune telling as the world is led to believe. 

 

If you look on the left, under my handle "Cauvery", I have listed my interests.  Sky-gazing is one of them.  I used to enjoy and love watching the stars.  I miss it so much.  I used to spend hours as a kid, from the terrace just watching the sky.  My entire attention rapt, just observing the beauty of the sky.  This was not simple time-pass or daydreaming.  The mind used to be calm, at peace.  When I look back, it just feels like a meditation or contemplation in it's own way.  The entire attention used to be on the sky, marveling at the starts, the planets, the celestial bodies, "shooting star" (or "falling stars") and even satellites.   I grew up in a rural place in India.  The night skies used to be dark.  There were not bright city lights.  Electricity used to be a privilege

We used to sleep on the terrace on certain seasons of the year.  I will be gazing, watching the sky, and will peacefully transition into sleep.

 

Gone are those days.  I live in large cities these days, near some biggest airports.  With noise of planes constant.  There are no terraces.  Even if I find a spot, I see mostly planes.  At times, I can see one or two constellations like Big Dipper.  When I travel between cities, while driving at night, I have come across the dark skies some times.  They bring back fond memories.

 

To answer your other question, I am not eluding to anything.  It is just a simple question.  As it reads on the post.  The significance of (at) the time any event start in the universe.  I strongly believe that there is significance.   I have stated this openly.  I wanted to discuss and get others feeling.

 

I wanted to hear from everyone, doesn't matter about astrology or any belief.  Just like the way you shared.  Thank you.  You brought up watching the stars.  Something that I am so passionate about.  I have to drive 3 hours away from where I live to meaningfully watch the sky, like I used to be.  It is not really practical given the life outside.  But, my passion does take me sometimes there to get the glimpse of what I used to enjoy once.  What used to be there, available everyday readily, close to me.   Only when we lose things, we understand the value and miss them.  But, life always replaces them with something else, that is fanciful to the mind.

[s1va]

Perhaps, I should have checked the right time to start this thread.    

 

To hear the views of many friends and readers of this topic.   

 

Patience is the key.  Let me meditate. 

[s1va]

 

Really though- if you are eluding to something just clearly type it please.

 

I lose sometimes (let's call it) connectivity or contentedness for the sake of our discussion momentarily.  I get blind sided.

 

Like the way I was, when I read these words of yours.

 

I was eluding or alluding to something.  Wasn't I?   Since you asked me to type, I will type briefly the following.

 

You know what I am eluding to.   You knew it before you made those statements, didn't you?   That is why you made those statements.

 

If you still think, you don't know what I am eluding to.  I will play along.  Just pause, take few steps back.  And there it is. 

[TheWhiteRabbit]

So, I saw your thread and thought I would chime in a bit.

 

I think it is awesome that you are doing what you are naturally inclined to do.

 

Doubt is the great thing that confuses people and draws them together in a way.  As I am writing, I often reflect on the fact that sometimes things just are the way they are.  Unless you have learned to warp space and time, sometimes even though a great many people have opinions on their drink not being as good or being bad like it should.

 

Optimists will always tell you that something is good or the outcome will be.

Pessimists or cynics will tell you things do not work or they turn out bad.

 

I choose realism.  In my words I often write "Sanity is the best gift you can give to yourself.  People have opinions good or bad or always see things the way they want them to be.  If we forget opinions and see things for what they are we can look forward to setting up success every step of the way.  By constantly nurturing success, obviously through virtue, we set up a positive outlook for the future.  Something we can look forward to."

 

What matters most is if something actually works for you.  The Chinese have something called Qi Men Dun Jia which is something like "hidden doors escaping technique".  It takes a long time to learn, but is worth it.  Likewise, if your method is working for you, use it.  Instead of what is good for the goose is good for the gander... I just say what is good for the goose is just good for the goose.  Not many people understand highly refined traditions.  Not that they can not learn them.  Sure, I defer to history as anyone can learn something they may only be able to understand something as much as they are predisposed to.  Overtime, watering down can lead to the current reality.  But, I think you are looking for someone who might be extremely versed in the tradition.  What I can tell you is "everything a person has, the Gods gave them."  If you are atheist, I translate this to whatever physical phenomenon this "spirit" or entities imbued upon the time and space they occupied.

 

So, occupy the best part.  I mean that jokingly and seriously.

[s1va]

Qi Men Dun Jia sounds fascinating.  Do you have any resources from which I can get a glimpse of what it it?

[TheWhiteRabbit]

Sure, there are some public domain books out there.

 

http://www.fengshui-hacks.com/Resources/Introduction%20to%20Qi%20Men%20Dun%20Jia.pdf

 

I saw some books by Joey Yap.  I hear they are good, but most likely copyrighted.  So, I advocate buying the books if you get them.  My understanding is anything in english will probably be rare.  At that you might have to get some kind of calandar that also shows the gods also for the time you are looking for.  I do not know of any currently on the market and I do not know of any in public domain.  I simply memorized it.  Then also memorized the type of occurances of a door "in play".

Edited January 29, 2017 by TheWhiteRabbit

[s1va]

Sure, there are some public domain books out there.

 

http://www.fengshui-hacks.com/Resources/Introduction%20to%20Qi%20Men%20Dun%20Jia.pdf

 

I saw some books by Joey Yap.  I hear they are good, but most likely copyrighted.  So, I advocate buying the books if you get them.  My understanding is anything in english will probably be rare.  At that you might have to get some kind of calandar that also shows the gods also for the time you are looking for.  I do not know of any currently on the market and I do not know of any in public domain.  I simply memorized it.  Then also memorized the type of occurances of a door "in play".

 

What you provided seems more than enough for me (for now).   Thanks.  I am into one system on this.  But, I read and compare others from time to time out of interest and curiosity.  

[Peramadi]

Vedic astrology, the calculations side --especially-- was harder for me.  I never had a good teacher as well.  While given up on this, I met a lady recently who is kind of an expert on Swara Yoga --based on which swara is flowing with sun/moon combinations and she thinks this can be good substitute for everyday uses.  This is part of the astrology but not widely used AFAIK.  But I feel this is a lost knowledge and not many pointers that are authentic.  I have been practicing this for about 6 months and have yet to form opinions about it.

 

Would appreciate thoughts from others as to its use.

[s1va]

Vedic astrology, the calculations side --especially-- was harder for me.  I never had a good teacher as well.  While given up on this, I met a lady recently who is kind of an expert on Swara Yoga --based on which swara is flowing with sun/moon combinations and she thinks this can be good substitute for everyday uses.  This is part of the astrology but not widely used AFAIK.  But I feel this is a lost knowledge and not many pointers that are authentic.  I have been practicing this for about 6 months and have yet to form opinions about it.

 

Would appreciate thoughts from others as to its use.

 

I thank you for sharing your thoughts on this topic.

 

I used to think and still think sometimes Vedic astrology is complex.   There is a difference between complex and hard.

 

This is like a huge ocean.  What I think I know is few drops.  We can never completely learn this.  We can strive to learn.  The striving itself becomes the path.  This is what I learned.  If I put one final goal post in front of me, it looks daunting.  Goal posts are needed.  There is no progress without them.  This is just like how some one said, a thousand mile journey starts with the first step.  If you want to look at some simple resources on vedic astrology, I can point you in some directions.

 

I am sorry, I don't have much knowledge in Swara Yoga.  Others who know more about it can chime in here.  It sounds interesting to me.  All of these things are interwoven in a complicated and very simple way.  For the 'lost knowledge' part, many think knowledge of vedic astrology is lost.  If we look hard, we may find them.  I don't personally subscribe (anymore) to this, 'some knowledge is lost'  theories.

[Peramadi]

I thank you for sharing your thoughts on this topic.

 

I used to think and still think sometimes Vedic astrology is complex.   There is a difference between complex and hard.

 

This is like a huge ocean.  What I think I know is few drops.  We can never completely learn this.  We can strive to learn.  The striving itself becomes the path.  This is what I learned.  If I put one final goal post in front of me, it looks daunting.  Goal posts are needed.  There is no progress without them.  This is just like how some one said, a thousand mile journey starts with the first step.  If you want to look at some simple resources on vedic astrology, I can point you in some directions.

 

I am sorry, I don't have much knowledge in Swara Yoga.  Others who know more about it can chime in here.  It sounds interesting to me.  All of these things are interwoven in a complicated and very simple way.  For the 'lost knowledge' part, many think knowledge of vedic astrology is lost.  If we look hard, we may find them.  I don't personally subscribe (anymore) to this, 'some knowledge is lost'  theories.

Thank you, Cauvery. 

 

Please do look into Swara Yoga.  What I meant by "lost knowledge" was that Vedic knowledge was always passed onto next generation by guru-shishya parampara and once this chain was broken, we learnt by reading books which lost it's original context / nuances or from others who read those books and gained some experience along the way.  But I do believe that when one is sincere and driven, help arrives in unimaginable ways.

 

Happy tidings...

[s1va]

Thank you, Cauvery. 

 

Please do look into Swara Yoga.  What I meant by "lost knowledge" was that Vedic knowledge was always passed onto next generation by guru-shishya parampara and once this chain was broken, we learnt by reading books which lost it's original context / nuances or from others who read those books and gained some experience along the way.  But I do believe that when one is sincere and driven, help arrives in unimaginable ways.

 

Happy tidings...

 

That's true.  But the 'guru-shishya' tradition,  I wouldn't say the chain was broken entirely.   It does look and feel that way.   There are some very minor threads that still keep it connected.  You are right, it is no more the solid chain the way it was.  

 

These minor threads that still keep the chain connected are visible.  If we pause and carefully look around.  I feel this chain or bond can never be entirely broken.  I may be wrong.