Top-to-bottom or Bottom-to-top?

[skiptomylou]

Hello,

 

I am joining after having some experiences and am now confused on what to do or follow. I started the meditating journey out under a "K survivor" and after "falling" from my peak experiences, that occurred while around this now deceased person, am again starting the trail back up the mountain. I believe I am at the steaming the cauldron stage in the dan tien; some mild tensing of diaphragm on long exhales seems to produce a "thick" pressure and heat in dan tien, perineum, legs, and at times ming mien. I presume this to be steaming the cauldron with jing?

 

8 months ago I was in Japan and a "high level" internal arts practitioner (varjyana yoga, dao, mikkyo, probably others) seemingly shot a jolt of "juice" through my crown and ever since then I can do a different breathe associated with this; inhaling through crown using dan tien with a completely relaxed exhale at a faster rate that produces a "lighter/thinner" heat above dan tien but below abdominal wall; seemingly kidneys.

 

Curious what the differences are between top-down approach vs. down-up approach? Is down-up the "fierce" path and top-down approach less of a nineties version? HA!

 

Any references or avenues to look toward would be appreciated.

 

Gambette!

[dawei]

Curious what the differences are between top-down approach vs. down-up approach? Is down-up the "fierce" path and top-down approach less of a nineties version? HA!

 

I've wondered if this question would ever arise and low and below (or skip to my lou)... a newbie asks  

 

i may sound too simplistic and welcome correction ...  but this is just my thinking on it.

 

down-up is earth to heaven based.... thus dependent on mankind, largely, to effect and turn the process and practice.

 

top-down is heaven to earth based... thus dependent on deities, largely, to reside in the process.

 

that being said.... i started down-up and then flipped to top-down.   that simply was my karmic preparation.   so i would say that there is not a best path for all to embrace except to feel within and keep going along your karmic path.   Over the years, i've meet very gifted folks in energy work, whether it be in magic, energy, or just natural...   the important thing is not to get caught up in comparing as each has their own karmic path and are along the journey where they simply are.

[Wells]

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Edited March 2, 2017 by Wells

[skiptomylou]

Are there names of practices associated with top-down (post to pre) I could look at to better understand the process? The only practice I have found r/t this approach is a Mantak Chia book titled Cosmic Healing 1. Is this a decent map?

 

Current practice includes: Top-down in AM and Bottom-up in PM. Thoughts?

[awaken]

From down to top : du Mai

 

From top to down : Zhong Mai

 

They are not two different roads.

 

They are two different layers.

 

I had both before.

 

From down to top will appear first, then from top to down will be later.

 

 

If you use breathe skill and focus on lower dan tian, it will run the down to top.

 

If you just relax and feel the exit of god or something great, it often start from top.

 

If you are a healthy and strong man, it will be easier start from down to top.

 

But if you are a high intellectual men, it will be easier to start from top.

 

 

That is the way of Qi running in our body.

 

Both of the Qi are belong to small medicine.

 

If you cultivate in Xiuan Guan, you will get big medicine, another advanced Qi, is different from both above.

Edited January 30, 2017 by awaken

[RiverSnake]

Depends on the person. Different methods for different people. 

[silent thunder]

Yes!  Both please, thank you.

 

Simultaneous absorption/expulsion...

contraction/expansion

permisiveness/temperance

saturation/distillation

presence/emptiness

being/awareness

[exorcist_1699]

There are two meanings of it  :

 

1) High to low level, or reverse :  You start from the high  level of  Shen , and for the reason of spiritual initiative  ( due to talent or karma ), you can simultaneously refine   jing and qi  into  it  at the same moment ..; otherwise ,  you follow the  conventional path : jing => qi => Shen .

 

2) Refer to location :   you start from the ' upper dantian ' ,  which is located at the top of your body ,deep inside your skull where 'Yuan Shen ' , some kind of Meta-Mind , hides ;   nourish it from there  and you get many  problems, mostly  coming from the lower part of your body , cured/ solved. 

Edited February 17, 2017 by exorcist_1699

[skiptomylou]

There are two meanings of it :

 

1) High to low level, or reverse : You start from the high level of Shen , and for the reason of spiritual initiative ( due to talent or karma ), you can simultaneously refine jing and qi into it in the same moment ..; otherwise , you follow the conventional path : jing => qi => Shen .

 

2) Refer to location : you start from the ' upper dantian ' , which is located at the top of your body ,deep inside your skull where 'Yuan Shen ' , some kind of Meta-Mind , hides ; nourish it from there and you get many problems, mostly coming from the lower part of your body , cured/ solved.

Curious. It seems I can isolate breathing into head, heart, or Dan tien with hui yin. I can also use the dan tien to initiate breathing through all three, which tends to include "balls" on inside of hands and under feet; although hands are more prominent. Is doing all three along the lines of what your describing?

 

Been playing around with some different breathing. Seems I can breathe in from legs and crown into dan tien with tongue up and exhale a decent amount of heat up my back to my throat, but if I keep the tongue up on exhale, the heat lessens and is much more streamlined. There was a time, way back when, that all this seemed much easier, fluid, and it was like looking through a kaleidoscope when my eyes where closed, but not anymore or at this stage yet.

 

Thanks all for the perspective, time, and words.

[exorcist_1699]

Curious. It seems I can isolate breathing into head, heart, or Dan tien with hui yin. I can also use the dan tien to initiate breathing through all three, which tends to include "balls" on inside of hands and under feet; although hands are more prominent. Is doing all three along the lines of what your describing?

 

Been playing around with some different breathing. Seems I can breathe in from legs and crown into dan tien with tongue up and exhale a decent amount of heat up my back to my throat, but if I keep the tongue up on exhale, the heat lessens and is much more streamlined. There was a time, way back when, that all this seemed much easier, fluid, and it was like looking through a kaleidoscope when my eyes where closed, but not anymore or at this stage yet.

 

Thanks all for the perspective, time, and words.

 

The points are :

 

1) Whether a stop of  the previous , ordinary  breathing happened before these feelings arise  , and,  how long the stoppage lasts ?

 

2) What  'qi '  do you deal with in this process..?

[skiptomylou]

The points are :

 

1) Whether a stop of  the previous , ordinary  breathing happened before these feelings arise  , and,  how long the stoppage lasts ?

 

2) What  'qi '  do you deal with in this process..?

 

1) I am unsure how to correctly interpret your meaning with this question.  Not sure where it relates?  If it was in relation to the kaleidoscope sentence, then the "stoppage" occurred when I stopped performing the methods; most likely related to a Shakti type experience that tapered off.

2) I am not totally able to answer this correctly either, but her goes: Top down seems similar to reiki energy (lighter feeling and more precise in its paths; post-heaven/acquired?) Bottom up seems like Jing (heavy and broad with lots of heat produced; pre-heaven/congenital?)

 

My initial question was related to your first response, "[...] you can simultaneously refine jing and qi into it in the same moment."

 

I believe I am currently doing this style of breathing during my AM routine: "[...] you start from the ' upper dantian ', which is located at the top of your body ,deep inside your skull where 'Yuan Shen ', some kind of Meta-Mind, hides; nourish it from there and [...] many problems, mostly coming from the lower part of your body [...] cured/ solved."  My question regarding this style of breathing is are there an visualizations involved?  Is there a definite name for this type of practice? Is this more of a Tantric approach?