Killing the Ego

[dawei]

not ready to leave memory or that which we think of as our mind  (which is understandable) for to do so is indeed about as "hairy" as it gets.   Btw, our seemingly particular mind is really part of THE Mind which is revealed in Spirit which sees and knows that.  (but not by mental seeing or knowing - hehe)

 

Is this an argument about whether time is real?  Or how we stop to treat it as such?

 

leave memory... how? Because time compresses to you as an eternal now that you can traverse it like a street or you just don't need to remember your wife asked you yesterday to run an errand ?

 

I don't see the focus on memory, although Spotless comment of it being ego is rather novel to me...  can't comment too much more.

[Jeff]

One may be speaking from one's siddhis and may be immersed in them and speak from them. And the experiences in them can be very high indeed - but one is still speaking from them and will still be in "conceptual" though it will not seem so and one cannot be convinced otherwise (unless one has not only Awakened but "abandon" the siddhis" and is no longer positioned in them - this usually takes a considerable time after Awakening).

 

If that point is arrived at one will never speak From authority. The words will be typed with no forethought and You will not be speaking them.

 

I do not claim Enlightenment - it is too brittle as a concept and creates spiritual competition or worship.

I have only claimed I have Awoken - which happened to the seeker who is no longer when not trying for "it".

 

In the five years since a considerable amount of clarity has replaced concepts from the many siddhis in which i both indulged and in many that I did not.

 

Papaji was not alluding to an initial stage and I omitted nothing. He was pointing to what I have already stated. It will not be clear until it is.

 

 

I think you are mistaking some mental siddhis for what I am trying to explain.  But, I get it... You simply disagree with the buddhist and taoist views.  If your memory is gone, it is gone.

 

Thanks for the discussion.

[Wu Ming Jen]

Why does this thread smell like pancakes?

 

No killing necessary, ego is like a lost child that wants to control everything and make your life as difficult as possible.

 

Once the true self or spirit is put back in charge that little kid will love spirit like its mother and listen and do anything for the spirit.

 

Life becomes so great it seems like all those lost kids and all their suffering and problems are not even real, just pretend

 

With the ego not in charge of affairs and knows its proper place as a guest we can live with all the shit the lost kids are creating for themselves and others. the difference is our lives have always been complete

 

 I need to go make some pancakes.

[dwai]

Is this an argument about whether time is real?  Or how we stop to treat it as such?

 

leave memory... how? Because time compresses to you as an eternal now that you can traverse it like a street or you just don't need to remember your wife asked you yesterday to run an errand ?

 

I don't see the focus on memory, although Spotless comment of it being ego is rather novel to me...  can't comment too much more.

 

It's really about being Present as I understand it. If we apply "knowledge", it is based on memory, so the past. If we project about what is to come (anticipate), it is also based on memories of the past, so future is also derived from the past - memory. 

 

When we are Present, there is no memory, no past, no future - only happenings.

[Jeff]

It's really about being Present as I understand it. If we apply "knowledge", it is based on memory, so the past. If we project about what is to come (anticipate), it is also based on memories of the past, so future is also derived from the past - memory. 

 

When we are Present, there is no memory, no past, no future - only happenings.

 

 

When we are truly truly present we have access to it all, past and future are part of the present moment.  Time is simply an illusion of mind.  The difference is that it one is not attached to those past memories so there is no need to anticipate.

[dawei]

When we are Present, there is no memory, no past, no future - only happenings.

 

Thanks

 

and I think you were one step away from Jeff's follow up...    see above edits. 

 

This is my sense... to harp on memories is no better than to harp on present or future.... The three are actually one Present moment.

[dawei]

Only if you've slipped into a Siddhi. If you're in one "present moment", you wouldn't use those terms since they involve non-apparent relations.

 

I slipped into using terms others are using as this is a discussion kept to the level of who started it  

 

If you want to try time or dimension travel... today is chat day for it

[Marblehead]

 

 

First there is a mountain, then the mountain is gone, then the mountain is back again. 

 

Yeah, the mountain doesn't exist until you start climbing it and then you say "WTF".

[Marblehead]

 

Once the true self or spirit is put back in charge that little kid will love spirit like its mother and listen and do anything for the spirit.

 

 

I like that.

[3bob]

yea, multi-grain, cooked just right pancakes with real butter and real maple syrup - none of that fake stuff !

[Bindi]

I perceive ‘ego’ as we know it as misguided and immature, a damaged aspect of ourselves blindly churning out self-protecting and self-serving storylines. But with a lot of (appropriate) effort I believe this misguided ego consciousness can be refined in the heart, and then brought up to the UDT where it can be transformed into authentic compassion, and can take its rightful place in the service of the True Self.

[Spotless]

Is this an argument about whether time is real?  Or how we stop to treat it as such?

 

leave memory... how? Because time compresses to you as an eternal now that you can traverse it like a street or you just don't need to remember your wife asked you yesterday to run an errand ?

 

I don't see the focus on memory, although Spotless comment of it being ego is rather novel to me...  can't comment too much more.

Just a quick clarification:

 

Papaji stated memory was ego:

(From the original quote of the dialog with Papaji in the original post)

"You don't need memory

Memory is ego itself"

 

It is also my experience that this is true.

[Spotless]

When we are truly truly present we have access to it all, past and future are part of the present moment. Time is simply an illusion of mind. The difference is that it one is not attached to those past memories so there is no need to anticipate.

This is the conceptual - very close in wording to what Papaji is getting at but not experientially what is being said. This is not saying it in another way - it is conceptual and a misunderstanding of what is being said. It is in a sense an opologists presentation for what was said ( though I do not mean to infer that it is). Edited February 10, 2017 by Spotless

[Pilgrim]

I experienced the receding of the mind/ego into the heart recently. It was very distinct in that I was completely aware as I was falling asleep. First the body went to sleep and then the mind flowed back into the heart. If I recollect the condition, there was just awareness left, no personification.

Also known as Pratyahara, a step into Samadhi.

 

In another post you mention being aware even in deep sleep, this I can speak too and it is not what it is cracked up to be.

Edited February 10, 2017 by Pilgrim

[Pilgrim]

I perceive ‘ego’ as we know it as misguided and immature, a damaged aspect of ourselves blindly churning out self-protecting and self-serving storylines. But with a lot of (appropriate) effort I believe this misguided ego consciousness can be refined in the heart, and then brought up to the UDT where it can be transformed into authentic compassion, and can take its rightful place in the service of the True Self.

UDT? Underwater Demolitions Team? Still sounds like some killing

Edited February 10, 2017 by Pilgrim

[Pilgrim]

Just a quick clarification:

Papaji stated memory was ego:

(From the original quote of the dialog with Papaji in the original post)

"You don't need memory

Memory is ego itself"

It is also my experience that this is true.

Interesting topic having poked some fun at it, will now try to be a little serious. This business of no memory / no ego is just so.

 

Been there done that, returned to participate in the incarnation given.

 

He is correct you can be so fully present that ego is not and with it memory as well and you can function as long as interactions with others or the life you are present to live in the first place do not require too much mental interaction. The minute you need to focus and pull something up you might find yourself like a frog on a hot plate though.

 

I would love to take all these popaji's and big talkers sitting on their dead ass and toss them into the salad of the real world earning a living, commuting and answering to clients and several bosses, repairing there home, vehicles, having a serious one on one daily committed relationship with another human being and just for fun throw in some kids and perhaps a dog and a puking cat so they can unexpectantly step in something unpleasant with bare feet once in a while then talk some shit for me.

 

Sure you can remove ego / memory and enjoy being present like anything the whole problem is you are so present that you will find yourself separate from everything and realize the play of the projector and that is good but you are still here so not so present as you might think but actually not present, to be here now you have to agree to play make believe and that means getting off your cloud.

[Stosh]

Pilgrim, may I ask by rephrasing,,that from a position of enjoying a subdued ego,, one considers mundane life with a lowered sense of ummm ,imperative? and to function in the normal world where things require prioritization and value judgements , you mostly drop out of that mode, play the game as if you were entirely convinced,,though you actually know better?

[Jeff]

This is the conceptual - very close in wording to what Papaji is getting at but not experientially what is being said. This is not saying it in another way - it is conceptual and a misunderstanding of what is being said. It is in a sense an opologists presentation for what was said ( though I do not mean to infer that it is).

There is no misunderstanding of what is being said. As I think I have pointed out in my earlier posts, there is simply disagreement. Cessation (and the concept of permanent memory loss that comes with it) is a choice based upon view and whether one moves on to differentiation or not.

[Marblehead]

Cessation (and the concept of permanent memory loss that comes with it) is a choice based upon view and whether one moves on to differentiation or not.

 

Schizophrenics do that too but their's is not a choice.

[Jeff]

Schizophrenics do that too but their's is not a choice.

Haha... But, I am describing something very different. It is the differention of the black and white as described in the TTC chapter 28..

 

...

Being the stream of the universe,

Ever true and unswerving,

Become as a little child once more.

Know the white,

But keep the black!

...

[dwai]

 

I would love to take all these popaji's and big talkers sitting on their dead ass and toss them into the salad of the real world earning a living, commuting and answering to clients and several bosses, repairing there home, vehicles, having a serious one on one daily committed relationship with another human being and just for fun throw in some kids and perhaps a dog and a puking cat so they can unexpectantly step in something unpleasant with bare feet once in a while then talk some shit for me.

 

Sure you can remove ego / memory and enjoy being present like anything the whole problem is you are so present that you will find yourself separate from everything and realize the play of the projector and that is good but you are still here so not so present as you might think but actually not present, to be here now you have to agree to play make believe and that means getting off your cloud.

 

 

First statement just comes across as bravado. Papaji lived a householder his entire adult life, till the point he passed away, so he knew what he was talking about...

 

Second - that's an interesting point. My experience is that there is no need for ego to do anything beyond the bare minimum required to sustain the mind-body complex. Otherwise it causes suffering that can be avoided...

 

Easier said than done though....

[Pilgrim]

Mostly I reply in terms of being and becoming the stages of. Hopefully it makes sense.

 

Ah it would seem so but no.

 

To communicate like this requires mind and therefore ego, to interact at all requires ego. If you transcend you will be struck dumb like a Zen master that only utters MU. Within MU is everything and nothing. Another with comprehension understands, to others it sounds like cow noises.

 

When enjoying the sense of time is much different within each moment there is such transcendent joy. Orgasmic waves of being for such a one fulfillment beyond reckoning. Yet you are not trapped in a moment but flow like oil in tranquility. Interacting becomes somewhat painful because you have to tune into the scene and this is a rough vibration by comparison it is internally uncomfortable by comparison and in the beginning makes it difficult to go back home.

 

There is no such thing as mundane.

 

A lowered sense of imperative? This is a nice concept. But not it. Things that might have been a bother before mean nothing they have no emotional hooks. Effortless effort.

 

You can still prioritize but that is making an effort. Everything is known to be fine just the way it is. There is no reason to participate or not participate.

 

If you really get to it you will find that whatever is needed is provided and there is no reason to remember anything but if taken far enough you will by default be removed from society, family etc... this is because you will have shucked the identity anchors and quite possibly have a very different mind and personality at times as both are just overlays anyway.

 

It can be difficult without a friend to help explain but makes no difference to the core.

 

When you see naked sadhus in India this is how it is for the real ones, others are trying to make the external appearance match the internal desired state.

 

What happens is the mundane as it has been labeled is going on around you and you are aware of the intricacies of it on a different scale. Everything is in harmony at this scale. It is more of a macro awareness but one can slide up or down the scale.

 

Playing the game is not quite it, knowing better is not quite it.

 

Knowing that this is not the entirety of ones existance would be a closer way of saying it. This gives great comfort knowing you are always actually liberated already. Not conceptionaly but experientially otherwise you are a office worker walking around playing naked sadhu who would be better off putting there cloths back on.

 

Life is not a game, it is very real especially when what is described is known, it is just not the only real, it is important, just not the only important.

 

In order to function with others prioritize and remember one must either have caretakers like the Swami's do with others paying there way or come back down and reintegrate with the personality and ego the vehicles for these lifetimes.

 

Here is a danger.

 

The personality can change, the mind can change, the ego can change. There comes a time with repeated letting go and just being that when these vehicles are taken up again that one has grown more accustomed to the other. These vehicles then can be something other than those around you are accustomed to and if you have a committed relationship the time will come where the you who made the commitment has changed so much that it is no longer the same.

 

This can make for dramatic life changes unless one can stabilize back within the Jivic program one is incorporated into by virtue of birth.

 

This can happen in leaps or a little at a time. Contrived practices like Kriya Yoga accelerate things like this and can if rapidly accelerated enough lead to periods of mental and emotional distress and instability with very poor decisions as a result. One can even loose contact with their moral compass as it is an artifact of ego yet very important when interacting on the egoic planes, this is how we wind up with abusive gurus and horror stories and manipulations by cult leaders.

 

It does not have to be all or nothing and rarely is, mostly it is gradual until it is not.

 

Then a stage is reached where you are the living liberated meaning liberated but still incarnate and can choose to be beyond or be in the program but it is a false choice really as knowing both the program and the not program automatically speeds up the movement towards the not yet the cherry blossom is still beautiful even though it becomes more and more the stuff of a hologram.

 

The jiva then is in the world but becoming less and less of it per their comfort level but make no mistake they are on rhere way out so clinging is useless. It takes the time it takes, me I am a slow learner I like to explore and enjoy the scenery until I have consumed it all to satisfaction then with sated boredom firmly in place missing nothing move along missing nothing renouncing nothing but rather allowing everything to renounce me.

 

Still This I dies daily in the practice of Kriya Yoga and like the Phoenix reborn but with more refined feathers. It has taken years to learn how to do without overdoing.

[Pilgrim]

First statement just comes across as bravado. Papaji lived a householder his entire adult life, till the point he passed away, so he knew what he was talking about...

 

Second - that's an interesting point. My experience is that there is no need for ego to do anything beyond the bare minimum required to sustain the mind-body complex. Otherwise it causes suffering that can be avoided...

 

Easier said than done though....

You betcha bravado enjoying myself a bit

 

AH thank you for the information, having only seen him talk on stage it was assumed he was not.

Edited February 10, 2017 by Pilgrim

[Jeff]

...

 

Still This I dies daily in the practice of Kriya Yoga and like the Phoenix reborn but with more refined feathers. It has taken years to learn how to do without overdoing.

 

 

Well said... And the Phoenix with the more refined feathers, knows that daily practices are in no way different than normal daily living...  

[Spotless]

There is no misunderstanding of what is being said. As I think I have pointed out in my earlier posts, there is simply disagreement. Cessation (and the concept of permanent memory loss that comes with it) is a choice based upon view and whether one moves on to differentiation or not.

We can agree to disagree - you are speaking of an earlier stage - Papaji is referring to a much later stage.

 

On another note: from what you are appearing to say along these lines is that you Awoke recently or at least you have had a Oneness transition or experience - congratulations!!!!

 

Have you shared the experience here already or would you care to?

 

I am sure I speak for everyone - we would love to hear about it!