Mair 5:4

[Stosh]

the regular people

Really !? How do you come to see it that way?

[Taoist Texts]

Duke's question about Nag was 

 

Surely there must have been something that distinguished him from other men.

 

 

Confucius explains that  Nag possessed a certain substance within that the regular person do not have despite their body being whole, just like a dead sow whose form was whole but the substance gone.

 

also compare to

 

Cultivating Perfection: Mysticism and Self-transformation in Early ...

https://books.google.ru/books?isbn=9047421736

Louis Komjathy - 2007 - ‎History

 The early Quanzhen adepts frequently refer to ordinary human beings as “skeletons” (kulou), “walking corpses” (xingshi ), “running bones” (zougu)

 

[Stosh]

 

Duke's question about Nag was 

 

Confucius explains that  Nag possessed a certain substance within that the regular person do not have despite their body being whole, just like a dead sow whose form was whole but the substance gone.

 

also compare to

 

Cultivating Perfection: Mysticism and Self-transformation in Early ...

https://books.google.ru/books?isbn=9047421736

Louis Komjathy - 2007 - ‎History

 The early Quanzhen adepts frequently refer to ordinary human beings as “skeletons” (kulou), “walking corpses” (xingshi ), “running bones” (zougu)

 

Ah! now I seee 

[Rara]

Clarify for me Tt, is this an excerpt from Cz, and the subject is Confucius , and the Duke is feeling insecure, and this is an 'uncontested' passage. So you feel Cz is indeed promoting Confucius' idea of an ultimate man , doesn't that ride against the ordinary antagonistic stance between the two personages? and if this is from the Analects or something , why is the unease of the Duke 'not a potential detractor for one considering 'ultimate man' habits.

The more I read these works, the more I understand that, especially in the outer chapters, there is some compromise between Taoism and Confucianism.

 

As for this chapter, I will continue to sit back and watch everyone's opinions unfold. I'm not sure if we'll ever know for sure as each translation reads slightly differently...

[Stosh]

The more I read these works, the more I understand that, especially in the outer chapters, there is some compromise between Taoism and Confucianism.

 

As for this chapter, I will continue to sit back and watch everyone's opinions unfold. I'm not sure if we'll ever know for sure as each translation reads slightly differently...

Ironic , I'm coming to see the exact reverse, maybe we'll end up in the middle.

I look at the end of the piece , where Chuang just conversationally says what he personally thinks about the scenario just presented , ( I figure the author would know what he thought about his own chapter.)

Though I realize that someone can come to their own conclusions on the presentation itself, like Confu certainly would. 

Thing is , no one is saying that whats being said about the words attributed to Confu are in fact incorrect, so I have to figure Chuang is being accurate at least in his paraphrase. 

 

Reminds me of Back to school with Rodney Dangerfield

from wikipedia excerpt on it..

" Thornton prefers partying to studying. He hires a team of professionals to complete his assignments, including author Kurt Vonnegut, to write a paper on Kurt Vonnegut for literature class. To Thornton's surprise, a disappointed Diane, recognizing the fraud,( but not the authorship) gives Thornton an F on his paper, telling him that she will not accept work from him that was written by someone else, and adding that whoever did write the paper doesn't know the first thing about Kurt Vonnegut."

Edited February 17, 2017 by Stosh

[Marblehead]

And who is it , that is being compared to a dead sow?

 

The sow when she was alive.

[Rara]

Ironic , I'm coming to see the exact reverse, maybe we'll end up in the middle.

I look at the end of the piece , where Chuang just conversationally says what he personally thinks about the scenario just presented , ( I figure the author would know what he thought about his own chapter.)

Though I realize that someone can come to their own conclusions on the presentation itself, like Confu certainly would.

Thing is , no one is saying that whats being said about the words attributed to Confu are in fact incorrect, so I have to figure Chuang is being accurate at least in his paraphrase.

 

Reminds me of Back to school with Rodney Dangerfield

from wikipedia excerpt on it..

" Thornton prefers partying to studying. He hires a team of professionals to complete his assignments, including author Kurt Vonnegut, to write a paper on Kurt Vonnegut for literature class. To Thornton's surprise, a disappointed Diane, recognizing the fraud,( but not the authorship) gives Thornton an F on his paper, telling him that she will not accept work from him that was written by someone else, and adding that whoever did write the paper doesn't know the first thing about Kurt Vonnegut."

I punched out a response to this and when I sent it, I got an error saying the site was offline. Otherwise, my phone doesn't seem to like signing out of TTB anymore. I am forever at one with the forum

 

The basics of what I said though is yes, I have also had that sort of idea before as well. On my first reading, I actually thought that ZZ was using Confuse Us (sorry...continuing with the pet names given to the man, I couldn't resist) as a tool for making his point. Perhaps for satirical purposes and to wind Confucianists up.

 

I could imagine the annoyance among Confectionists (sorry) if Zhuangzi was calling Confucius a converted Taoist.

 

Jokes aside though, a very good point.

 

Edit: Though my point still stands RE some of the outer chapters. Some parts jumped out at me as quite contradictory to the inner chapters in some places. I'd find an example but I'd have to backtrack.

Edited February 18, 2017 by Rara